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Author Topic: Z3100 review  (Read 32079 times)
Kenneth Sky
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« on: January 05, 2007, 01:07:41 PM »
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Michael
Thanks on behalf of all your viewers for this excellent review. You've answered all of our potential questions about an exciting but unaffordable ( for most of us who don't have the volume to justify the cost) product that appears to have been executed flawlessly by the manufacturer. But you have tantalized us with the vague hope of a 17" version. How likely is that to happen?
Ken
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ricgal
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2007, 02:08:20 PM »
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Michael
Thanks on behalf of all your viewers for this excellent review. You've answered all of our potential questions about an exciting but unaffordable ( for most of us who don't have the volume to justify the cost) product that appears to have been executed flawlessly by the manufacturer. But you have tantalized us with the vague hope of a 17" version. How likely is that to happen?
Ken
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93908\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Please can you tell me where Michael's the review of the 3100 is?
cheers
Ric
Ahaa found it!!!!!
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 02:11:51 PM by ricgal » Logged

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BlasR
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2007, 02:27:21 PM »
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Just hit what,s new front page.  Or click the link

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/...00-review.shtml

BlasR
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 02:27:59 PM by BlasR » Logged

jjlphoto
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2007, 02:27:47 PM »
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Please can you tell me where Michael's the review of the 3100 is?
cheers
Ric
Ahaa found it!!!!!
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« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 02:29:15 PM by jjlphoto » Logged

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william
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2007, 03:56:35 PM »
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I'd love to see the Z3100 offered in two configurations: with and without the built-in profiler.  I mean, it's cool and all, but since I've pretty much standardized on 4-5 papers, I don't really have the need to do custom profiles on a regular basis for a variety of papers (hence, why I don't own a printer profiling tool now).  So, if most of the higher cost of the HPs versus comparable Epson and Canon models is attributable to the profiling hardware, I'd love to see a lower cost version without it.  While we're at it, I could also live without the networking stuff and built-in harddrive.  All of these things (profiler, networking, harddrive, are really innovative and will be of great use to studios doing high volume printing, but they're of less use for others, IMO.

Thoughts?
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abiggs
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2007, 04:07:08 PM »
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I'd love to see the Z3100 offered in two configurations: with and without the built-in profiler.

Thoughts?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93950\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That sounds good, but the spectro is probably handling the calibrations, and that seems to be an integrated part of the system.

$.02
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Andy Biggs
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2007, 04:12:28 PM »
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I'd love to see the Z3100 offered in two configurations: with and without the built-in profiler.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93950\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

HP has the option to pull the spectro later, say if they need to compete on price with whatever Epson comes out with. The built-in spectro doesn't appeal to me either but the trend in the market is to make products user-proof.

One thing that wasn't mentioned in the review is the need to continually carry spares of (it looks like) six unique printheads in case one drops out in the middle of a job. Ink supplies you can predict. Over time the cost would be the same but you're up for an additional $420 initially.

Anyway, it looks like a nice printer.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2007, 04:51:13 PM »
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Michael
Thanks on behalf of all your viewers for this excellent review. You've answered all of our potential questions about an exciting but unaffordable ( for most of us who don't have the volume to justify the cost) product that appears to have been executed flawlessly by the manufacturer. But you have tantalized us with the vague hope of a 17" version. How likely is that to happen?
Ken
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93908\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'd love to have a 17/18 inch version of this machine simply to save on space, but I don't expect it would be any more than say 500~1000 USD cheaper, because materials are not the big ticket cost items for this kind of product. Something else to think about is the prospect of Canon marketing a 22~26 MP 1 series DSLR some time this year. If that happens, the sheer number of megapixels will enable yet higher quality ~ bigger enlargements, so for those wanting or marketing such prints, the 24~44 inch size range could match the next generation DSLR quite nicely - for a price.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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wolfnowl
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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2007, 07:35:47 PM »
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Thanks for another great review, Michael!  Sounds like HP has really done their homework with this printer.  Did I hear you correctly in the video that in addition to the 24" roll, the printer also accepts cut sheets of different sizes?

Mike.
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michael
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« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2007, 09:12:17 PM »
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Yes, it accepts single sheets up to 24" wide, by up to 300 feet long, though a feed at the rear of the printer.

Michael
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Paul Williamson
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2007, 10:01:39 PM »
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The review says:
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When a head is replaced, or an ink cartridge as well, a calibration needs to be performed.
Does that mean that if a cartridge runs out in the middle of a big print, the big print is ruined? Or can the cartridge be swapped and the print continued?
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adiallo
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2007, 11:00:34 PM »
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I'd love to see the Z3100 offered in two configurations: with and without the built-in profiler...While we're at it, I could also live without the networking stuff and built-in harddrive.  All of these things (profiler, networking, harddrive, are really innovative and will be of great use to studios doing high volume printing, but they're of less use for others, IMO.

Thoughts?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93950\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just curious. If you want a printer w/o a spectro, hard drive and built-in network functionality, why not just buy a current Epson? I'm not trying to be sarcastic. The HP has alot going for it. I'm setting up the 44 inch version right now. But HP is differentiating their 3100 series with the above mentioned add-ons, quad black ink set and user maintenence features. Take those out and you've got no reason to buy their printer over an Epson or Canon.
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John Camp
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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2007, 11:03:22 PM »
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I'm glad you're going to have this for a while; because the print heads are another consumable, I'm very interested in whether they are consumed at the expected rate, or it there are problems. The Epsons I've used have an "ink remaining" check that you can pop up on your computer if you're wondering where you're at with the ink. Is there a "head remaining" check with the HP?

Somebody above mentioned "user proof" printers...that sounds like my kind of printer.

JC
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EvoM
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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2007, 01:12:59 AM »
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Great review as expected, thanks Micheal! You have answered all my questions. This printer is really a benchmark for the other manufacturers. It's great to see a company "leap-frog" what's available and not hinder the product by having to purchase "extras"!

Cheers

Evo
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michael
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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2007, 04:15:40 AM »
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Amadou,

Yes, there is print head monitoring. I'm not at the printer at the moment, so this is from memory, but as I recall it shows if the heads are within warrenty, have concerns, or are near exhausted. No surprises are likely, as the printer is constantly monitoring and reporting on the head's health.

Michael
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Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2007, 05:20:39 AM »
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As usual, an enjoyable review. Thanks Michael.
In forthcoming reviews I would like some more on B&W. For instance is the DMax better with 4 blacks? A figure of 1.77 has been bandied around. I get 1.6 on the Epson 9800  and would love some more play in the shadows.
I'm also interested in how the printer handles deckle edge paper , but I have a suspicion it will be me testing that!
Tests here have indicated the greatest chart deviations that need to be profile corrected,  using Epson's K3 inkset , is in the cyans. I have been informed this is also a major problem with offset inks.
HP's avoidance of the dark cyan  may get around this problem , so some analysis of this would be useful.
It will be interesting to see how long Epson takes to respond.
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2007, 05:30:40 AM »
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Merci beaucoup for the review Michael.

Very interesting!

Cheers,
Bernard
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Quentin
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« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2007, 05:34:53 AM »
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Good review, nice printer, but perhaps we should consider the real reason for the replaceable printheads.  This is not  feeature desinged-in for the benefit of owners, but a consequence of the forced use of a different technology that wears out the printheads more quickly.  

Epson have the patents on their unique piezo technology.  Their system causes minimal printhead wear, so the printeads can be designed to last the lifetime of the printer.  They can therefore be calibrated accurately at the factory with no need for a built-in spectro.  Disposable technology does not sit easily in a world where we are trying not to waste resources.

Still might buy one, as HP are cleverly making a virtue out of a necessity, but I might wait and see what Epson do next.  My ageing 7600 is still going strong - along with the original printheads.

Quentin
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jjlphoto
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« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2007, 06:31:08 AM »
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Epson have the patents on their unique piezo technology. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94065\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I thought the DX series piezo heads Epson uses were actually developed by Mutoh and Epson has an exclusive license to them (aside from Mutoh).
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2007, 07:12:05 AM »
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..............This is not  feeature desinged-in for the benefit of owners, but a consequence of the forced use of a different technology that wears out the printheads more quickly. 

Epson have the patents on their unique piezo technology.  Their system causes minimal printhead wear, so the printeads can be designed to last the lifetime of the printer.  They can therefore be calibrated accurately at the factory with no need for a built-in spectro.  Disposable technology does not sit easily in a world where we are trying not to waste resources.

Quentin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94065\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Quentin, my reading of this is a bit different. Many years have gone by during which non-Epson manufacturers could have developed their own form of piezo-electric technology from first principles. They have consistently chosen not to do so - from what I've heard because they don't want the printhead determining the life of the printer.

While Epson can calibrate the printer accurately at the factory, what assurance have they ever given that this calibration will remain unchanged for the "life of the printer"?  And have you ever seen a definition of the "life" of an Epson printer? The only one I know of is that because this print-head is so expensive, when the print-head dies so does the printer. Hence when anyone says that the print head lasts the life of the printer they are of course correct - as the printhead DEFINES the life of an Epson printer. Canon and HP have chosen not to go this route - at the cost of replacing print heads as Michael described.

Now, the built-in spectro is primarily meant for creating paper profiles as one easy-to-use closed-loop system between your computer and the printer. For anyone who wants to experiment or use many paper types - and more and more interesting papers are emerging every year - this is a wonderful feature for automating colour management accross an infinite range of papers, primarily unrelated to the issue of calibrating printheads.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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