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Author Topic: Is there any chance that Phase-one will built  (Read 18084 times)
david o
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« on: January 06, 2007, 10:52:16 AM »
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the question is in the title...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 10:52:53 AM by david olivier » Logged
TorbenEskerod
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2007, 02:35:22 PM »
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xx
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 06:17:36 AM by TorbenEskerod » Logged
marcwilson
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2007, 02:50:56 PM »
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A shame really as I do think that phase, or any other db makes for that matter, could stick their sensors and all their digital back know-how into a one piece camera body..similar to the mamiya zd or any other lens mount..mamiya  /bronica / pentax / contax etc..(as kodak did with nikon and canon mount dslrs) and take a good chunk out of the pro dslr market..i.e. all those users who switched from medium format film to dslr..and so are used to the slightly slower workings of such a camera.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2007, 04:13:07 PM »
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There is no chance of this happening. And I don't think it's a good idea in any case. They would be much better off using an existing camera platform. It would cost far too much to develop a whole new camera, a set of lenses, viewfinders, etc, and you have no 'ready-made' customers who already have an investment in the system. Very hard to get off the ground.
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TorbenEskerod
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 04:33:20 PM »
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xx
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 06:17:50 AM by TorbenEskerod » Logged
david o
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2007, 04:56:47 PM »
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There is no chance of this happening. And I don't think it's a good idea in any case. They would be much better off using an existing camera platform. It would cost far too much to develop a whole new camera, a set of lenses, viewfinders, etc, and you have no 'ready-made' customers who already have an investment in the system. Very hard to get off the ground.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94400\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I thought about that, using an existing system, like leaf with Sinar... or built their own body, using existing lens, as far as I know, hasselblad doesn't manufactured their own.

That was just an idea.
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James Russell
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2007, 05:08:54 PM »
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There is no chance of this happening. And I don't think it's a good idea in any case. They would be much better off using an existing camera platform. It would cost far too much to develop a whole new camera, a set of lenses, viewfinders, etc, and you have no 'ready-made' customers who already have an investment in the system. Very hard to get off the ground.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94400\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't think it matters.  How many exisiting Rollei users does the HY6 play to . . . about 12.?

Hasselblad had no issues selling a brand new camera with a brand new mount and if done properly probably no one would either.



JR
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2007, 06:39:48 PM »
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I don't think it matters.  How many exisiting Rollei users does the HY6 play to . . . about 12.?

There's no need for that attitude. I expect the correct number is in the thousands or tens of thousands. Even SLX lenses from 1976 can be used on the Hy6.
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James Russell
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2007, 08:57:25 PM »
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There's no need for that attitude. I expect the correct number is in the thousands or tens of thousands. Even SLX lenses from 1976 can be used on the Hy6.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94423\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I believe the era where you bought one camera or camera system for a decade are over.

Digital has changed the landscape and as the backs and cameras continue to leapfrog each other so will the platforms.  

Our film is now digital and the days of a new film making an older camera modern are over.

2 years ago the H-1 was the hot ticket, next year maybe the HY6, but for any camera company to rely on a fixed install base of lens owners does not sound like the current business model for digital.

Now in regards to the Rollei, maybe it's big in europe but in my career I have only known one working photographer that regularly used a 6008 and never used it when he transitioned to digital.

I doubt seriously if the HY6 sales will have much to do with the current Rollei owners but regardless if the HY6 is good and stands alone on it's own merits it will be a success.

JR
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Carl Glover
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2007, 04:54:50 AM »
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Rollei are still making cameras, which is quite an achievement for any medium format manufacturer these days.

Somebody must be buying them and and if the upcoming Hy6 is going to take Phase backs as well as Leaf and Sinar there will be a lot more customers too...
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rainer_v
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2007, 05:10:50 AM »
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it was discussed till the end and longer that the hy6 will communicate exclusive with sinar and with leaf backs.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 05:11:42 AM by rehnniar » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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Carl Glover
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2007, 05:41:42 AM »
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Rehnniar,

Have you seen what Torben Eskerod says earlier on in this thread?

He was informed (by a rep) that Phase are involved in the Hy6 project - not with Phase-branded Hy6s but with ensuring that Phase backs are compatible.

I hope it's true and I don't even use Phase.
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David WM
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2007, 07:09:08 AM »
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There is no chance of this happening. And I don't think it's a good idea in any case. They would be much better off using an existing camera platform. It would cost far too much to develop a whole new camera, a set of lenses, viewfinders, etc, and you have no 'ready-made' customers who already have an investment in the system. Very hard to get off the ground.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94400\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree, (previously) existing manufacturers already up and running couldn't maintain profitability. Its hard to imagine a DB manufacturer producing something acceptable to today's even more demanding marketplace and  also meet the objective of pricing it to be a sales lure for their DB. The Mamiya connection seems logical, as does choice of platform for the users.

David
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James Russell
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2007, 08:37:49 AM »
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Rollei are still making cameras, which is quite an achievement for any medium format manufacturer these days.

Somebody must be buying them and and if the upcoming Hy6 is going to take Phase backs as well as Leaf and Sinar there will be a lot more customers too...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94481\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Does Rollei really make cameras, or are they just clearing exisiting stock?  I 've never heard a definative answer on this?

Definative answers are hard to find in the digital world.  Is Hasselblad really locking off the H series cameras to everyone but themselves?  Obviouisly some of the manufacturers think so, hence the sing on with the HY6, I have yet to see a statement that say exactly what camera will only work with which back.

As far as Rollei, or F+H or anyone having success with a new camera, I believe it will depend on the quality of the camera, not the installed user base that may own a series of lenses.

Because of all of this, I think this is why the Contax continues to be attractive.  The price is good, but more importantly it's not a moving target like the other cameras.   The firmware is locked and if you have an issue with your Phase, Leaf, or Sinar back on a Contax, you can put it at the back makers door rather than the camera makers.

It's a shame the Contax didin't continue, but in a lot of ways it's almost a blessing because today it will work the same as it wil tomorrow.

Personally, without ever seeing or using one the HY6 should be a success, but ONLY if it is an exceptional camera that comes out of the gate glitch free and it is widely available.

Don't underestimate the availability part of this, because if you have to wait weeks or months, most working professionals will go another route.

JR
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awofinden
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2007, 01:32:34 PM »
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I'm liking my mamiya 645afd, sharp lenses, no problems or error messages, very little mirror slap.  Cheap as chips too. I don't see why everyone doesn't use them.
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TorbenEskerod
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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2007, 02:00:46 PM »
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xx
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 06:18:08 AM by TorbenEskerod » Logged
hcubell
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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2007, 02:59:57 PM »
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Carl,

I am sure I got it right - but I will double check with the Phase rep. (from the Phase factory here in Denmark) and get back with a precise answer.

Torben
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I would not for a second rely on anything you hear from any rep, whether Phase, Leaf or Sinar, about Phase's role, if  any, with the Hy6. The only people who know are those that have read the fine print in the supply/development contract between F&H and Sinar and the one between F&H and Leaf. You may find it reprehensible, but those agreements may give Sinar and Leaf exclusive rights to the Hy6. Wait till Phase and F&H make a formal announcement. Right now, the silence is deafening.
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Kumar
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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2007, 05:01:13 PM »
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It's more likely a limited time exclusive arrangement, like Sinar had with Kodak for the 22mp chip. Rollei wouldn't want to lock itself out completely, not with the huge installed base of Phase users.

Or, another way to look at it: Leaf is owned by Kodak, but Phase is the largest consumer of Kodak chips. Leaf has convinced Kodak that it would be better to keep everything inhouse, and lock out Phase in future. Sinar is currently a small player, but has an excellent relationship with Kodak, and was brought in to give the deal the "open platform" flavor.

Which scenario is right? Any industrial spies around?    

Cheers,
Kumar
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rainer_v
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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2007, 07:34:32 PM »
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i think all was answered by yaya and thierry in the previous long tread about the HY6.
they said the camera is under exclusive control of jenoptik and licensed to sinar and leaf not to third parties. if this is time limited we will see..... but two years or five or whatever time limit is a long time in digital age. ....
in any case i enjoy my new (old) contax also and will see what will bring the future.
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rainer viertlböck
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hcubell
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« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2007, 09:53:58 PM »
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It's more likely a limited time exclusive arrangement, like Sinar had with Kodak for the 22mp chip. Rollei wouldn't want to lock itself out completely, not with the huge installed base of Phase users.

Or, another way to look at it: Leaf is owned by Kodak, but Phase is the largest consumer of Kodak chips. Leaf has convinced Kodak that it would be better to keep everything inhouse, and lock out Phase in future. Sinar is currently a small player, but has an excellent relationship with Kodak, and was brought in to give the deal the "open platform" flavor.

Which scenario is right? Any industrial spies around?   

Cheers,
Kumar
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Isn't the Rollei brand owned by F&H? If so, I would think they would be perfectly happy to sell out their entire production to Sinar and Leaf, particularly if (i) Sinar and Leaf paid for all or a major part of the tooling costs for the Hy6 and (ii) F&H/Rollei could stay out of the marketing risks associated with distributing an actual camera, something they have a very poor track record at.
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