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Author Topic: Is there any chance that Phase-one will built  (Read 22891 times)
TorbenEskerod
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« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2007, 05:17:48 AM »
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 06:18:24 AM by TorbenEskerod » Logged
BJL
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« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2007, 03:18:47 PM »
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There is no chance of this happening. ... It would cost far too much to develop a whole new camera, a set of lenses ...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94400\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have to agree (with the bits I deleted too).

A few years ago some camera makers developed complete new lens systems for the sake of auto-focus and other modernizations: Fuji, Mamiya, and Pentax in medium format, Olympus in 4/3 format. (Not Hasselblad by the way, since the H system and in particular its lenses are primarily Fuji products.)

But now there are a number of up-to-date medium format AF lens systems around, and it probably makes no sense for anyone to create yet another new system in what is a rather small market. It barely makes sense to me for Rollei to try, which it must: Rollei currently has only about one third of an AF lens system, compared to the variety offered by the other 645 AF systems.
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marcwilson
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« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2007, 03:27:42 PM »
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When I made the comment a few days ago about a camera made by one of the db manufacturers I did of course mean with existing lenses..so working with pentax/hoya, mamiya, contax zeiss lenses if they were allolwed, etc to make a great body to go with the existing lenses, both autofocus and manual still seems like a good idea to me.

As example mamiya spent so much time working on the sensor for the zd they got a bit left behind whereas camera maker plus phase one, or leaf etc...

we know zeiss make lenses for others cameras..nikon, hasselblad of old, contax, etc..who would not be interested in say a phase made body built around the sensor, not th eother way round and with (new) zeiss lenses?

marc
« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 03:29:49 PM by marcwilson » Logged

Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2007, 04:19:30 AM »
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Rollei currently has only about one third of an AF lens system, compared to the variety offered by the other 645 AF systems.

The Rollei is a 6x6 system, not 645, and it is the only 6x6 AF system, afaik.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
BJL
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« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2007, 09:46:22 AM »
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The Rollei is a 6x6 system, not 645, and it is the only 6x6 AF system, afaik.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=95056\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I know that Rollei's lenses, viewfinders and such are designed for 6x6, so perhaps I should have referred to "the other auto-focus medium format systems" with their far more extensive AF lens systems.

As far as digital is concerned though, the Rollei system is far from 6x6 (56x56mm); it is 37x49mm or smaller, depending on which of the available sensors it is used with. I am talking about facts here, not speculation about sensors larger than 645 format ever being offered at less that "military contract" prices.
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hcubell
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2007, 10:46:40 AM »
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I know that Rollei's lenses, viewfinders and such are designed for 6x6, so perhaps I should have referred to "the other auto-focus medium format systems" with their far more extensive AF lens systems.

As far as digital is concerned though, the Rollei system is far from 6x6 (56x56mm); it is 37x49mm or smaller, depending on which of the available sensors it is used with. I am talking about facts here, not speculation about sensors larger than 645 format ever being offered at less that "military contract" prices.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=95103\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Robert White's UK web site lists 4 AF prime lenses for the Rollei 6008: 50, 80, 150 and 180. Is that the AF lens lineup for the Hy6?
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yaya
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« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2007, 11:26:03 AM »
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Robert White's UK web site lists 4 AF prime lenses for the Rollei 6008: 50, 80, 150 and 180. Is that the AF lens lineup for the Hy6?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

These lenses will be available at the release:

AFD Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS
AFD Super-Angulon 2.8/50 HFT PQS
AFD Tele-Xenar 4/150 HFT-PQS
AFD Tele-Xenar 2.8/180 PQ
AFD Variogon 4.6/60-140 PQS

AFD 35mm will follow shortly after and then a few more a bit later.

All of these carry new glass design, new coating etc. Optimised for use with hi-res sensors.

More info can be found on [a href=\"http://www.leaf-photography.com/pages/products/leafafi.aspx]Leaf's Website[/url]

Yair

[span style=\'font-size:7pt;line-height:100%\']Yair Shahar | Regional Manager | Leaf EMEA |
mob: +44 77 8992 8199 | yair.shahar@kodak.com | www.leaf-photography.com
Leaf, part of Kodak's Graphic Communications Group
[/span]
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robert zimmerman
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« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2007, 11:54:34 AM »
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These lenses will be available at the release:

AFD Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS
AFD Super-Angulon 2.8/50 HFT PQS
AFD Tele-Xenar 4/150 HFT-PQS
AFD Tele-Xenar 2.8/180 PQ
AFD Variogon 4.6/60-140 PQS

AFD 35mm will follow shortly after and then a few more a bit later.

All of these carry new glass design, new coating etc. Optimised for use with hi-res sensors.

More info can be found on Leaf's Website

Yair

[span style=\'font-size:7pt;line-height:100%\']Yair Shahar | Regional Manager | Leaf EMEA |
mob: +44 77 8992 8199 | yair.shahar@kodak.com | www.leaf-photography.com
Leaf, part of Kodak's Graphic Communications Group
[/span]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=95118\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yair,

does Leaf have a price policy for the Leaf Hy6 with the standard lens incl. a camera mount update for existing Leaf db owners? Also, when will Leaf be taking orders, how many units will they have to sell and when will they be available?

Also, have you seen, held, played and worked with one of the Leaf Hy6's? If so, and if you can actually say anything without getting in deep ...., what's your opinion on handling, weight, auto focus, etc.

Thanks, Kipling
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BJL
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« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2007, 12:49:09 PM »
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These lenses will be available at the release:

AFD Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS
AFD Super-Angulon 2.8/50 HFT PQS
AFD Tele-Xenar 4/150 HFT-PQS
AFD Tele-Xenar 2.8/180 PQ
AFD Variogon 4.6/60-140 PQS

AFD 35mm will follow shortly after and then a few more a bit later.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=95118\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Those five lenses seem to be basically the current Rollei AF lenses, albeit with a "D" added to the names, so to be fair Rollei is up to about half of what other AF MF lens systems offer. (Hasselblad/Fuji had to come from behind too.)

Is there any source for information about future lenses, such as that AFD 35mm? I see nothing on Leaf's site about that one, but something wider than 50mm for sensors 60mm on the diagonal does seem the logical next step.
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TorbenEskerod
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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2007, 12:58:43 PM »
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 06:18:41 AM by TorbenEskerod » Logged
yaya
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« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2007, 03:12:12 PM »
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Kipling,

Pricing policies and such will be announced closer to the shipping date, which is likely to be in the 2nd part of 2007. As you can read in the "New Promotions section we already offer some specials to people who buy backs for Contax and RZ/ RB/ V systems.

I personally had a few opportunities to "play" with an early prototype of the camera and in my opinion it is going to be one of the best handling and most versatile MF cameras made. It feels very balanced (at least with the 80mm), bright viefinder, fast AF, adjustable grip, "analog" buttons for the main functions...all seems very well thought out.

Brenton,

The 35mm is going to be a 2.8 from Schneider, More info will come as soon as it is available during the next months


Torben,

I'm sorry if this piece of information was somehow dropped and I can imagine that at the time we did not have this information. The Contax is a fine system and as I understand your back of choice is neither Sinar nor Leaf so the Hy6/ AFi is irrelevant to you.

I hope this answers all the questions

Yair


[span style=\'font-size:7pt;line-height:100%\']Yair Shahar | Regional Manager | Leaf EMEA |
mob: +44 77 8992 8199 | yair.shahar@kodak.com | www.leaf-photography.com
Leaf, part of Kodak's Graphic Communications Group
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Dustbak
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« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2007, 03:39:16 PM »
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I am in the process of looking to upgrade my Aptus17 somewhere end of this year,

I use multiple camera systems that all have the V-Mount. From the looks of the special you can now buy a back, exchange it later for an Afi back?

Fine. But how can I continue to use this back on my TrueWide or on my 503CW or on any other V mount machine?

Will there be adapters available to mount a V-Back on an Afi body? Or will there be adapters to mount an Afi back on a V-mount body?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 03:42:23 PM by Dustbak » Logged
pss
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« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2007, 04:15:35 PM »
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i think all was answered by yaya and thierry in the previous long tread about the HY6.
they said the camera is under exclusive control of jenoptik and licensed to sinar and leaf not to third parties. if this is time limited we will see..... but two years or five or whatever time limit is a long time in digital age. ....
in any case i enjoy my new (old) contax also and will see what will bring the future.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94668\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

amazing.....i don't think they even mentioned exclusivity....they said theat they would support the Hy6....that does not mean that phase won't...they would probably want to be exclusive, but i doubt they can have that....as a Rollei lover and user and as a Phase owner (and mamiya user) i have to say that it would be suicide to take the market share that is left for rollei (which is tiny enough) and cut that in half even more because they won't support Phase...crazy...could it be? everything can happen...i have absolutely no doubt that we will see phase backs on a Hy6..if rollei doesn't do it, someone else will...simple as that....regardless of what sinar and leaf want to see....
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pss
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« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2007, 04:18:50 PM »
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the 35mm AF was announced before the Hy6 and has been described and written about in this forum...why is there any doubt? of course we are all still waiting for the 28mm mamiya, but that is a different story....
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hcubell
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« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2007, 04:57:12 PM »
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amazing.....i don't think they even mentioned exclusivity....they said theat they would support the Hy6....that does not mean that phase won't...they would probably want to be exclusive, but i doubt they can have that....as a Rollei lover and user and as a Phase owner (and mamiya user) i have to say that it would be suicide to take the market share that is left for rollei (which is tiny enough) and cut that in half even more because they won't support Phase...crazy...could it be? everything can happen...i have absolutely no doubt that we will see phase backs on a Hy6..if rollei doesn't do it, someone else will...simple as that....regardless of what sinar and leaf want to see....
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Really? Take a look at [a href=\"http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=429376]http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=429376[/url].
For all the criticism of Hasselblad with the H3D, at least they are still making the H2 for those that want to put a Phase back on it. It appears that Rollei/Leaf/Sinar will not allow that with the Hy6.
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yaya
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« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2007, 05:09:54 PM »
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Ray,

An AFi back will not fit a V-series camera. It may fit your TrueWide if KG choose and are allowed to make an adapter plate for it. Same for other LF cameras etc.

A V back will not fit the AFi camera.

Rgds

Yair



Quote
I am in the process of looking to upgrade my Aptus17 somewhere end of this year,

I use multiple camera systems that all have the V-Mount. From the looks of the special you can now buy a back, exchange it later for an Afi back?

Fine. But how can I continue to use this back on my TrueWide or on my 503CW or on any other V mount machine?

Will there be adapters available to mount a V-Back on an Afi body? Or will there be adapters to mount an Afi back on a V-mount body?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=95156\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dustbak
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« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2007, 01:11:14 AM »
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Ray,

An AFi back will not fit a V-series camera. It may fit your TrueWide if KG choose and are allowed to make an adapter plate for it. Same for other LF cameras etc.

A V back will not fit the AFi camera.

Rgds

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=95178\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


That means I probably will have to get 2 backs when I want to get an Afi which is unfortunate naturally. It was something I feared from the start and which was unclear until now.

I just hope the Afi Back mount spec's will be made available to adapter makers fairly soon. I was kind of hoping Leaf would be able to provide adapters to be able to use other back mounts on the Afi as well (even if it would mean limited functionality).

How about upgrade deals for current Leaf DB owners? Currently the deal is for people that buy new into the system. For me upgrading is getting myself in between a rock and a hardplace. I can choose not to go Afi and use my back in the studio with the Truewide or I can go the Afi route and render my Truewide useless thus not being able to use TS glass and such.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 01:14:24 AM by Dustbak » Logged
yaya
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« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2007, 01:38:45 AM »
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I'm not sure about the unclear thing. For the last 6 years Leaf has been making camera-specific mounts for all the backs and there was no plan to change it with the AFi.
Mechanically it should be possible to make an adapter plate to fit oher backs on it but the focal plane won't sit in the right place.

Upgrades for sure will be available for everyone, but there is no reason to publish them at this point.

Yair


Quote
That means I probably will have to get 2 backs when I want to get an Afi which is unfortunate naturally. It was something I feared from the start and which was unclear until now.

I just hope the Afi Back mount spec's will be made available to adapter makers fairly soon. I was kind of hoping Leaf would be able to provide adapters to be able to use other back mounts on the Afi as well (even if it would mean limited functionality).

How about upgrade deals for current Leaf DB owners? Currently the deal is for people that buy new into the system. For me upgrading is getting myself in between a rock and a hardplace. I can choose not to go Afi and use my back in the studio with the Truewide or I can go the Afi route and render my Truewide useless thus not being able to use TS glass and such.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=95226\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dustbak
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« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2007, 02:36:39 AM »
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I'm not sure about the unclear thing. For the last 6 years Leaf has been making camera-specific mounts for all the backs and there was no plan to change it with the AFi.
Mechanically it should be possible to make an adapter plate to fit oher backs on it but the focal plane won't sit in the right place.

Upgrades for sure will be available for everyone, but there is no reason to publish them at this point.

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=95228\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The unclear part has got nothing to do with Leaf making backs for most camera mounts for the last 6 years but more with questions about how/whether people that already have DB's can use these on the new Afi system. This question has now been answered with a clear 'No' as far as I understand it correctly.

On several occasions multiple persons (including myself) have asked the very same question, about the back mount, which could not be answered by any Leaf spokesman at that time. That is unclear in my book.

An adapter that gets the back sitting out of the focal plane makes it practically pretty useless.

Imacon has been able to provide their customers with an adapter system where the client can buy only 1 back and change adapters when this back needs to be used on a different system. These adapters get the back perfectly in the focal plane.

I certainly hoped Leaf would opt to go that route as well. I do not mind putting down 1K USD on an adapter but have some problems with putting down 15K for a second back.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 02:38:50 AM by Dustbak » Logged
BJL
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« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2007, 09:09:51 AM »
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First, thanks Yair: your post about the Schneider 35/2.8 in more or less official capacity from Leaf seems the best I am going to get for now.

From most companies I would expect official news on a web-site, but Rollei's web-site http://www.rollei.com/en/index.html is a disaster in that respect: the only cameras on the product list there are compact digitals!. (Along with the stunning innovation of Rollei film and processing supplies; repackaged MACO.)

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the 35mm AF was announced before the Hy6 and has been described and written about in this forum...why is there any doubt?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I asked exactly because I wanted a citation of such an announcement from Rollei or the lens maker, which I have still not seen: lots of imaginary future products get confidently discussed in forums!

At least when it comes to the Mamiya 28mm, the sort of announcement I seek has been made:
[a href=\"http://www.mamiya.com/assets/pdfs/Mamiya_New_AF_Lenses_PR.pdf]http://www.mamiya.com/assets/pdfs/Mamiya_N...F_Lenses_PR.pdf[/url]
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