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Author Topic: Is there any chance that Phase-one will built  (Read 23136 times)
mcfoto
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« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2007, 02:17:26 AM »
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Bottom line - you make very presumptious statements as if they were facts, without offering a shred of proof. The BJP article doesn't prove anything, and in fact suggests something much narrower than your assertions. At this point, the people who do know the facts aren't talking.
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Please look at the logic, why would Sinar want Phase involved??? Jenoptik owns Sinar & Leaf is licenced to the Hy6. The best way to resolve this is call Jenoptik, ask them will Phase be involved?
Thanks Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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thsinar
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« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2007, 05:38:10 AM »
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Dear All,

It is my feeling that it has become necessary to give some information again about the whole situation: Sinar, Hy6, Jenoptik, Franke & Heidecke, who is the owner of the project, who has which rights, who owns who, etc ....

I will try to make it as clear as possible to everybody, since there seems to be much confusion and wrong information circulating around. What I will be writing are all known facts and not confidential at all. As such, you can take my information as an official one, since I am signing with "Sinar AG Switzerland", or then you can get this same information from Sinar AG directly in Switzerland.

All other information not included or mentioned below is either unknown from me, or then confidential, and will be communicated at the appropriate time, if necessary.

- Jenoptik AG Germany owes Sinar AG Switzerland ---> www.jenoptik.com

- Sinar is integrated in the "Laser - Optic and Sensors Systems" division of Jenoptik = Jenoptik-LOS GmbH
for more information go to following link:

http://www.jenoptik-los.com/cms.php?pageid=60&lang=1

- It has been announced and pupblished officially (Press Release dated December 13th 2006) that the Jenoptik AG - Leica AG sale/purchase agreement of Sinar AG had been canceled:

---> http://www.jenoptik.com/cps/rde/xchg/SID-2...l/3725_4723.htm

- Jenoptik AG has developped (R&D), financed (paid for) the project of the new camera known under the names Sinar Hy6 and Leaf AFi and appointed Franke & Heidecke Germany to manufacture it.

- As such, Jenoptik HAS the exclusive sales rights for this particular camera and has given these sales rights to Sinar AG and Kodak- Leaf, whatever are the terms of these agreements.

- Franke & Heidecke has the rights to sell this camera in Japan, China and Russia ONLY, AND under the name "Rolleiflex" (and has not the rights to sell it to Phase One).

- Phase One is not part of this project, which means in clear that this camera will not be sold to Phase One.

- Sinar AG has no plans to provide adapter plates for either Phase One or Hasselblad digital backs.

- The Sinar Hy6 camera will be released by end of the second quarter  of 2007: Production is started with the 0-series to be ready in a few weeks.

- Prices, Upgrades and possibe Kits available will be communicated through the official Sinar distributors worldwide and in due time, except for Japan, China and Russia.

Thanks to all,
Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland
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Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
hcubell
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« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2007, 12:34:46 PM »
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Sorry, I'm not buying that. Or put another way, I'll believe it when I see it. There has been a lot of uninformed speculation on the subject IMHO. Michael, who's very well connected, has been indicating that Phase will be available for Hy6, so unless he's retracted his statements to that effect, that seems the most plausible route.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97912\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I guess you can still reject my reality and substitute your own.
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pss
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« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2007, 12:59:16 PM »
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i think everything has been said several times here, no use to repeating it all again...we will all know more in a year from now...

about the "logic" of ownership: kodak owns leaf, which unlike phase and hasselblad does NOT use kodak imagers....
jenoptic is a very large company and their involvemnt with sinar is similar to kodaks with leaf...i would be surprised if the top people at kodak are even aware that they own one of the largest DMF companies which happens to be one of two that do NOT use kodak chips.....
i read that jenoptic builds (among many other things) the rooms that intel makes their chips in....so imagine how much 4mill euro is for them and how much they care about sinar or who uses which back and how they can rule the world of DMF huahahaha!!!

i have said this before but as a rollei fan and schneider on rollei fan i can only hope that phase backs will work somehow....it is one thing for hasselblad (who owns a very large share of the MF market) to force people into their system but for rollei, sinar or even leaf to attempt the same is simply laughable....in other words: if the Hy6 will accept all backs (one way or another, adapters, whatever...) it has the chance to succeed and actually give hass some competition...if not it will be a fringe system in a disappearing fringe market....which of course jenoptic would not really care about either.....
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Mort54
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« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2007, 02:12:45 PM »
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Dear All,

It is my feeling that it has become necessary to give some information again about the whole situation: Sinar, Hy6, Jenoptik, Franke & Heidecke, who is the owner of the project, who has which rights, who owns who, etc ....

Thanks to all,
Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98272\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Thierry. At least this sounds definitive, rather than nebulous references to BJP that some keep making.

Still, it's a shame, since if this is true the Hy6 won't be the wonderful "open" camera that many had been hoping for. Takes quite a lot of the luster of off the whole thing, actually, and sounds no better than what Hasselblad is doing.

Is it your understanding that F&H, in selling the Rolleiflex branded version, will be required to use only Sinar or Leaf backs, or will they be free to be a true "open" architecture MF body and be open to all backs?
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hcubell
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« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2007, 03:52:57 PM »
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Is it your understanding that F&H, in selling the Rolleiflex branded version, will be required to use only Sinar or Leaf backs, or will they be free to be a true "open" architecture MF body and be open to all backs?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98356\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thierry:
Is there a chance that the Russian mafia will be smuggling open architecture Hy6s into the US for black market sale?
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2007, 03:56:40 PM »
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Why do people keep implying that the Sinar or Leaf versions will somehow be locked. So far the official word is that these cameras are "rebadged" which normally means they are identical mechanically and electrically.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
Mort54
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« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2007, 05:55:16 PM »
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Thierry:
Is there a chance that the Russian mafia will be smuggling open architecture Hy6s into the US for black market sale?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98373\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

With buying over the web these days, I suppose anybody anywhere could buy a Rolleiflex badged Hy6 from a Japanese online dealer (no Russian mafia needed :-). Of course, that leaves you in the lurch regarding service. And as you (or maybe somebody else) said on the other thread on this topic, if you're forced to buy the Hy6 (however it's badged) bundled with either the Sinar or Leaf back, then nobody is going to be buying any other back, so in effect even the Rolleiflex version would be closed. Sigh.
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thsinar
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« Reply #68 on: January 31, 2007, 02:12:57 AM »
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Thierry:
Is there a chance that the Russian mafia will be smuggling open architecture Hy6s into the US for black market sale?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98373\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Why do yo think that the camera sold by F&H is branded Rolleiflex?

I think this answers pretty well, beside that it won't make any sense pricewise.

Best regards,
Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland
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Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
James Russell
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« Reply #69 on: January 31, 2007, 07:02:52 AM »
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Why do yo think that the camera sold by F&H is branded Rolleiflex?

I think this answers pretty well, beside that it won't make any sense pricewise.

Best regards,
Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98465\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think one thing that is forgotten in all of this is most people that shoot medium format like options.

I would be perfectly happy if my digital backs worked on any platform without complicated adpaters or issues, but that is not the case, so I went the Contax route because it gave me a lens options, from Pentax 6x7, hasselblad, Russian Tilt Shifts to the standard Ziess Contax lenses.

Maybe the HY6 will eventually have a huge lens range and series of accessories, but and this is a big question, when will they all appear and for how much?

I hope the HY6 is a success, but I think it will be difficult for a camera platform to cover territory when it's limited to just one or two backs, especially since the largest seller of backs is not available.

To me it would be like in the film days making a camera that excluded the use of Fuji Film.

This goes against the electronic world's business model, but as long as people keep making digital backs for my Contax, it really can be a 10 year camera system, even though it is out of production, because Contax sold a huge volume of product before they shut down.

Knowing this, I wonder how long it will take the HY6 to reach the same market penetration as Contax?

JR
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