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Author Topic: Z3100 ...out-gassing questions  (Read 3365 times)
EvoM
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« on: January 06, 2007, 09:57:09 PM »
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Hi thought I'd post a new topic after reading the post Micheal's review thread.

 Anyway, just wondered if using the gloss enhancer (full coverage) might reduce or eliminate out-gasing? i.e. how soon can say a gloss or semi-lustre print be framed behind glass without it fogging (out-gassing) the inside of the glass? I'm thinking it will be like all pigment prints and need a time before framing, possibly with absorbent paper layed on top to help.

Also, if anyone with this printer has tried any of the high gloss papers  (cibachrome style) with the gloss enhancer and what the results were like.

Thanks for any info!  

Evo
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Tim Ernst
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2007, 07:40:56 AM »
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Evo:

It is my understanding that the gloss ink mixes with the other inks as it is being laid down - in other words it is not a protective coat or anything (hey, now that would be a good idea!) but rather just another ink that happens to be clear. I expect the outgassing issues will be the same with this printer as with all other pigment printers. I normally cover my prints with tissue paper for at least 24 hours before shipping them to customers, and figure it will be at least several more days before they get the print behind glass.
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2007, 08:35:48 AM »
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Outgassing is the result of solvents in the ink evaporating off the print and then recondensing on the glass. Applying any kind of coating is going to increase the time required for the solvents to evaporate completely, unless the coating is impermeable to the solvents and prevents them from ever evaporating out.

I don't know about your printer, but on the Epson printers, the gloss optimizer clear coating is sprayed on after the ink, and it makes a layer over the ink, without really mixing with it. If it mixed with the ink, it would cause a certain amount of smearing/bleeding.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 08:36:52 AM by Jonathan Wienke » Logged

Tim Ernst
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2007, 11:57:09 AM »
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This from the recent review of the z3100 here, which is where I got the notion that the gloss ink was mixed with the other inks instead of being sprayed over the top:

"What the GE does is combine with the other inks, depending on the image content. This effectively mixes gloss enhancer with the other pigments as required..."
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 01:08:31 PM »
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And is that from the reviewer, or technical data from the manufacturer?
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Tim Ernst
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2007, 02:33:34 PM »
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My quote noted above is from Michael's review - I don't know where he got his info (nor really care - it seems to work for me) - you might ask HP if you are interested...
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EvoM
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2007, 05:17:09 PM »
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thanks guys for your input.
Yeah, I think it will be the same as other pigment printers too.

Maybe a tank with a clear laquer is something the manufacturers could add for all the times a print needs coating...i.e. canvas etc.??

Evo
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michael
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2007, 05:25:54 PM »
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The information in my report regarding the nature of the Gloss Enhancer is from an HP technical paper, and a telephone discussion with one of HP's ink scientists.

Michael
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Haraldo
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2007, 07:52:59 AM »
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I just did a quick test on my new Z3100 to see about this...

-- printed on HP Instant Dry Satin. I think this qualifies as a "barrier paper" where outgassing could apply.
-- made two prints (1) Gloss Enhancer turned Off, (2) Gloss Enhancer used Whole Page (everywhere)
-- put both prints into its own ClearBag, and sealed them up completely to be airtight. Unfortunately, I only had 13x19" bags and I didn't feel like making 13x19" prints, so the prints were much smaller than the bags.
-- taped both bags with the prints inside on my window-testing window, ink side toward the sun (have heard reports of photogs getting fogging in these conditions). Let sit the whole day and now into the next morning.
-- RESULTS: no fogging in each bag.
-- PRELIM. CONCLUSION: (A) these prints don't fog via outgassing, ( my test is inadequate to determine if prints fog via outgassing.
I'll keep the bags up for a few more days to see.

FYI: the Z3100 doesn't not lay a coating over the inks; the GE is blended in WITH the other inks. Same is true of the Epson with Gloss Optimizer... it's not an overcoat. That you would have to put on yourself (currently).

Harald Johnson
author, "Mastering Digital Printing, Second Edition"
author, "Digital Printing Start-Up Guide"
DP&I.com ( http://www.dpandi.com )
digital printing and imaging consultant
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Haraldo
aka Harald Johnson
Phoozl - photo games & more
EvoM
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2007, 07:06:35 PM »
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woow, thanks for going to that much trouble Haraldo!

I wonder if it's difficult to see on a plastic bag compared to a sheet of glass though.

Evo
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ternst
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2007, 07:33:59 PM »
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Harald:

I wonder how long it takes for the fogging to appear? I always thought it was a very gradual process that may not show up for weeks after a print had been put behind glass. I know they say that after 24hours with paper on top of the fresh print you should be good to go, but I thought that may have more to do with the gas being soaked into the paper rapidly as opposed to just being allowed to escape naturally - which might take weeks or even months. I hope you will continue your test for a few weeks and see how it goes. Come to think of it that is a great idea - I may do the same test with prints behind glass and just see what happens over a month...
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Haraldo
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2007, 09:36:46 PM »
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Sure, I'll keep them up. The bags were easier and faster for me to do; behind glass takes more effort. I'll let you do that!

Harald
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Haraldo
aka Harald Johnson
Phoozl - photo games & more
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