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Author Topic: 1st print problems with z3100  (Read 44667 times)
mcbroomf
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« on: January 20, 2007, 10:16:25 PM »
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I just recieved my z3100 and set it up, but I've had problems on the 1st 3 prints I've tried.

No issues with setup. calibration or profiling, but the 1st 20x30 print I made on HM FAP started off OK but about 1/2 way showed some slight bands, then very muted colours and flat greys (birch trunks in deep shadow that had good mid to deep grey contrast).

I realised that I'd profiled using thick fine art > 250 as the paper type (realised this when I had no access to gloss enhancer), so I reprofiled using semigloss/satin photo paper and ran another print.  This time the colours seemed good across the print, but I got what I think look like head strikes in 5 or 6 columns down the print.  They appear as narrow striped white columns that fade in and out from 1/4 to 1/2" across, alternating white bands/stripes and print colour bands, about 1/16" or so thick.

I checked out the troubleshoting guide and couldn't find this specific problem, but I thought it was possible that I'd left the paper setting in the driver at photo gloss and it might be thinner, I printed the imbedded test pattern and saw no problems, so I tried to print a 9 x 22" section after carefully setting the paper type as satin/semigloss.  I got the same problem again with the lines.

I saw no problems like this in either the calibraqtion or the profiling patterns (the latter run across the whole width of the roll).

Has anyone had this issue?  Have you identified the problem snd fixed it?  
What paper type do you set up Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl on the printer?  
How about Hahnemuhle PR 308.  I have a roll of this too and may try a print tomorrow depending on how things go with FAP.

Thanks,

Mike
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Mike Broomfield
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2007, 05:10:12 PM »
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Continued problems with no root cause or solution at present.

After a couple of additional short test prints (no more full size ones for the time being  ) that repeated the problem I began to wonder if I may have a bad roll of 24" HM FAP, so I switched to a roll of Epson Premium Lustre that I'd used a few times on my Epson 4000.  It's also thinner than the HM FAP.  

Before I calibrated and profiled the Epson paper I used the troubleshooting guide to run through the HP solutions to fix banding (although this did not look like banding), they suggest a head clean, a head alignment, and a paper feed check.  Unfortunately the head clean is done using the same special kind of wipes that come with the heads and are used when they are initially installed, so of corse mine had all been discarded and the printer comes with no spares.  I reluctantly skipped the head clean step and ran the head align and paper feed check.  No issues that I could see with the test prints made by those steps.  So I tried the EPP Lustre.

No problems with the calibration or profile patterns (but I'd had none with the 24" HM FAP).  A short test print looked OK, so I committed a 16x24....bad idea.  This time I did not get the zebra stripe columns as I'm now officially calling them, but this time I got faint horizontal bands, pretty subtle as I didn't notice them until I got the print out and under some brighter lights  In fact there appear to be 2 problems on this print, a repeating band about every inch or so, 1/8" wide and very slightly darker, and then a much more distinct dark band about 1 inch from the end of the print, this one about 1/4" but with less distinct edges.

I imagine I'll be talking to HP tomorrow.

Mike
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Mike Broomfield
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adiallo
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2007, 06:10:30 PM »
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I haven't experienced any of these problems, but as a stab in the dark, did you shake the carts before installing them? Are your ambient temp and humidity in the recommended range min 30%RH and 74F?
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2007, 06:17:36 PM »
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Hi Amadou,
Thanks for the suggestions.  Yes, I did shake them, this is the same technique the Epson cartridges need and I've been using the 4000 for nearly 3 years now with no issues.  My temp is definitely OK.  I don't know the humidity but I'd expect that it pretty normal.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2007, 06:18:35 PM by mcbroomf » Logged

Mike Broomfield
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2007, 07:55:18 PM »
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I signed onto the HP website looking for their support FAQ etc.  Nothing there of any use, but I checked their z3100 forum and found less than a dozen posts, one of which described what sounds very much the zebra stripes on mine with the 24" HM FAP.
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Mike Broomfield
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neil snape
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2007, 10:45:16 PM »
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I signed onto the HP website looking for their support FAQ etc.  Nothing there of any use, but I checked their z3100 forum and found less than a dozen posts, one of which described what sounds very much the zebra stripes on mine with the 24" HM FAP.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Could be a number of things.

One is air in the lines. Unlikely though as the calibration didn't show.
Two is the driver. On the 9180 some have said there are fine white lines when using the PS plug in on Windows only.

Head strikes show as gouges not density differences. Also highly unlikely if the calibration and profiles are fine.

I would try an advanced alignment. It's under some strange name in the printer diagnosis or print samples somewhere. I'd also see if the span of the head path is flat. The calibrations and profile charts are good so in this area it must be. Perhaps the other side is out of whack.
HP will have more info on what to do, on this I'm sure.
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AImagery
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2007, 08:25:54 AM »
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Hi Neil,

Same problem here. I used Hahnemule FineArt Perl 13X19. The weird thing is, it will print fine if I feed paper vertically and produce "zebra" lines described by Mike if place paper horizontally.

After careful observation I concluded that part of the print head carriage is striking paper and physically stripping part of the emulsion.  

Weight of the paper is 285gsm, way bellow 500gsm limit.
I profile this paper under Photo Semigloss group.

Had no problem printing on much thicker paper profiled under Fine Art Papers group.

On top of that I started to loose some of my pizza wheels.

And can any body enlighten me why HP driver is not acting correct when you change between landscape and portrait mode? I have to rotate my image in Photoshop to be able to print it correct.

Andre Aloshine
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2007, 09:58:50 AM »
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Hi Andre,
I just spent some time on the phone with HP support.  
I had to add an extension to my USB cable as my 16' cable is not long enough (the z3100 connection is on the far left of the printer, in quite a different place to my Epson 4000).  They suggested that as the profiles look fine but the prints look bad this could be a communication problem.  They also agreed with Neil's comment that a head strike would scuff the ink, while the marks on my FAP prints are dead white.  The file I sent to the printer using Epsom Premium Lustre was a good bit smaller.
Are you using USB, and are you using a long cable?
Are you getting the marks on your profile patterns, or just your prints?
Can you describe what you mean by "losing pizza wheels" please?  I did ask how the paper is held flat and was told that the HP has no vaccuum like the Epsons.  The support tech told me that it uses star wheels to hold the paper flat.  I assume this is what you mean.  Are they breaking off?
I'll be trying to print from my laptop tonight using the same test files and also from CS2, the same as my desktop, but only a 3 foot USB.

By the way, I think landscape/portrait only refers to the orientation of your image, not the paper.  The printer expects to see sheet paper loaded on the short side.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but every printer I've used does the same.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2007, 10:01:34 AM by mcbroomf » Logged

Mike Broomfield
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AImagery
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2007, 11:26:56 AM »
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Hi Andre,
I just spent some time on the phone with HP support. 
I had to add an extension to my USB cable as my 16' cable is not long enough (the z3100 connection is on the far left of the printer, in quite a different place to my Epson 4000).  They suggested that as the profiles look fine but the prints look bad this could be a communication problem.  They also agreed with Neil's comment that a head strike would scuff the ink, while the marks on my FAP prints are dead white.  The file I sent to the printer using Epsom Premium Lustre was a good bit smaller.
Are you using USB, and are you using a long cable?
Are you getting the marks on your profile patterns, or just your prints?
Can you describe what you mean by "losing pizza wheels" please?  I did ask how the paper is held flat and was told that the HP has no vaccuum like the Epsons.  The support tech told me that it uses star wheels to hold the paper flat.  I assume this is what you mean.  Are they breaking off?
I'll be trying to print from my laptop tonight using the same test files and also from CS2, the same as my desktop, but only a 3 foot USB.

By the way, I think landscape/portrait only refers to the orientation of your image, not the paper.  The printer expects to see sheet paper loaded on the short side.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but every printer I've used does the same.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=96984\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hi Mike,

I'm using 3 feet cord. In my case HP guys can't blame this on communications problems.

In regard to Neils comment: it does make scuff marks (at list in my case).
To illustrate this I attached sample file. It is clearly physical contact of sharp and very thin part of the carriage with paper.

Star wheels= pizza wheels.
Yes they are braking out. It is known problem and HP is working to fix that.

In regards of Portrait- Landscape orientation, it looks like HP released half-cooked driver. It doesn't behave normally. It is complicated to
explain but you will recognize this when you will try to print your horizontally oriented images.

Cheers,

Andre

P.S.  HP set me up with printer technician. I will let you know results of the visit.
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2007, 11:54:17 AM »
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Hi Andre,
Thanks for posting the sample pic, it looks very much like mine.  I'll check my cable of course but this doesn't look good, I had some hopes that it might be a simple fix.

I've sent both landscape and portrait images to the paper I've been printing on with no issues, but I've only printed on rolls so far.
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Mike Broomfield
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Christopher
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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2007, 12:54:40 PM »
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One question, is there a minimum size ? I mean do the prints have to be bigger than A4 ? A3 ? A2 or A1 to see the problem, or is it also visible in smaller prints ?
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AImagery
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2007, 01:10:42 PM »
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Hi Andre,
Thanks for posting the sample pic, it looks very much like mine.  I'll check my cable of course but this doesn't look good, I had some hopes that it might be a simple fix.

I've sent both landscape and portrait images to the paper I've been printing on with no issues, but I've only printed on rolls so far.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97009\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hi Make,

Try to print 13X19 horizontal(landscape) on vertical paper 13w by 19h

Good luck      

Andre
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jule
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2007, 02:22:02 PM »
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I was making a few enquiries about this printer, and the rep advised me before I gave it consideration - (as he knew I was an artist) , that the printer works best with paper up to 250 gsm, marginal between 250 and 300gsm, and not to consider papers above 300gsm because of 'fine lines appearing on the print - like zebra lines."

Interesting that he used the same terms you have. I have not seen any prints, nor the machine, so I cannot be certain, but it sounds like someone in HP knows there is a bit of a problem, or their machine is doing the same thing.

Julie
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Christopher
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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2007, 03:13:27 PM »
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I was making a few enquiries about this printer, and the rep advised me before I gave it consideration - (as he knew I was an artist) , that the printer works best with paper up to 250 gsm, marginal between 250 and 300gsm, and not to consider papers above 300gsm because of 'fine lines appearing on the print - like zebra lines."

Interesting that he used the same terms you have. I have not seen any prints, nor the machine, so I cannot be certain, but it sounds like someone in HP knows there is a bit of a problem, or their machine is doing the same thing.

Julie
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97037\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Now I really don't think HP will be that stupid. Ok lets first look what comes out, but a printer only working good till 250 is a joke. My Printer would be faster gone before it was here ;-)
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AImagery
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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2007, 03:19:08 PM »
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Some more problems.

After installing new firmware 4.0.0.6 and new drivers from HP website as suggested by tech support rep, printer does not calibrate any more. System Error message 58:10.

"The printer's color sensor is not working well. Color reading operation may fail. If the problem persists,call HP."

So much for improved firmware functionality.

So far this printer lives up to its over hyped marketing massage. It is very consistent in its inconsistency.  

Cheers,

Andre
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Christopher
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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2007, 03:36:19 PM »
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Some more problems.

After installing new firmware 4.0.0.6 and new drivers from HP website as suggested by tech support rep, printer does not calibrate any more. System Error message 58:10.

"The printer's color sensor is not working well. Color reading operation may fail. If the problem persists,call HP."

So much for improved firmware functionality.

So far this printer lives up to its over hyped marketing massage. It is very consistent in its inconsistency.  

Cheers,

Andre
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97053\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sorry to hear that. I wanted to install the firmware right now. Now I'm not so sure anymore if I really should do it :-(
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deelight
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2007, 04:46:40 PM »
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Sorry to hear that. I wanted to install the firmware right now. Now I'm not so sure anymore if I really should do it :-(
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97055\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I already run the 3100 on the new firmware 4.0.0.6 from the HP website, no problems up to print size 1,30m x 0,60m.

I work on Mac G5 10.4 - from Photoshop via Ethernet.

No reason not to install the Firmware from my point...
Best,

Clem
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2007, 04:59:07 PM »
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Chris, I don't know if the problem appears on smaller prints, I only have 17 and 24" rolls.

Andre, for the same reason I can't print on any cut paper, but yesterday on 17 Epson Premium Lustre I had regular banding but not the zebra stripes.

I have just tried a print with the supplied HP USB cable from my laptop and I got one faint mark, so this does not seem to be the solution.  The fact that it's only one instead of 5 or 6 is not much of a surprise as yesterday I was getting only 2 columns on some tests.  I'm printing another as I type.

I took a photo of an area from one of yesterday's just to show how similar it is to your problem Andre.  The interesting thing here is that in the dark area between the top and bottom sections you can see that there is colour amid the faint scuffs, so I'm confident now with your and Neils's comments that it's a head strike.

Oh well, the next test came off and it's got 2 very obvious columns.

Andre, thanks for the warning about the firmaware update.
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Mike Broomfield
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« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2007, 05:00:53 PM »
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I was making a few enquiries about this printer, and the rep advised me before I gave it consideration - (as he knew I was an artist) , that the printer works best with paper up to 250 gsm, marginal between 250 and 300gsm, and not to consider papers above 300gsm because of 'fine lines appearing on the print - like zebra lines."

Interesting that he used the same terms you have. I have not seen any prints, nor the machine, so I cannot be certain, but it sounds like someone in HP knows there is a bit of a problem, or their machine is doing the same thing.

Julie
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97037\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Julie,
Thanks for mentioning this, it is clearly a know issue and very depressing if they know of this susceptibility..
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Mike Broomfield
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Christopher
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« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2007, 05:06:35 PM »
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Ok just a short note:

I know printed a 13*19 photo with HM Photo Rag 306. I had no problems at all, but first of all it was fed from a roll and it wasn't so big. Know I really would like to test it but right now I don't have anything larger than the 13*19 expect the Glossy Paper HP supplied, but we all know that there is no problem.

Did Someone tried to print on Rolls with 13*19 or does someone has any marks on a 13*19 sheets ? I have some laying around. ( Innova F-Type, which is could be close to HM FAP )

If you also have the marks on 13*19 prints, than I will check it with a sheet or two.
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