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Author Topic: 1st print problems with z3100  (Read 43791 times)
mcbroomf
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« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2007, 06:41:06 PM »
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A crop from the right bottom corner of the 1st print, the leading edge.  Looks great to start!  20x30 on HM FAP using Photo semiglass > 250gsm as the paper type when I profiled.
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Mike Broomfield
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2007, 06:43:27 PM »
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A centre crop.  The larger trunk just right of middle has some vertical dotted bands.  Not too clear in this image I'm afraid.  The gresy are getting bland.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 06:44:21 PM by mcbroomf » Logged

Mike Broomfield
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« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2007, 06:45:33 PM »
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Lastly, the left corner.  No banding, but the greys have gone completely flat.
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Mike Broomfield
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Roscolo
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« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2007, 07:54:44 PM »
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My sympathies. That has got to be frustrating.

If you print the shot of the trees, does the banding and loss of black replicate exactly the same in each print?

I know it's tough for you, but I'm hoping that this problem is confined to a few defective printers that could be solved with a replacement printer and not a problem with all the z3100's.

It would be nice if someone from HP could chime in on this problem.
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2007, 08:04:15 PM »
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Hi Roscolo,
I had thought about making some more test prints using my original profile but decided not to bother.  For one thing the problem happened in the 2nd 1/2 of the print, and it seemed to me that if this was part of the problem then I would have to make a number of additional prints.  I didn't feel like spending the money to be honest.

If it's limited to a small number of printers then at least I have the solace that bad ones exist in the tech support area here in the US, so they can be a testbed for any fixes that HP design, should I decide to keep the printer.

HP have pushed out the call to Tuesday as we cannot get together given the 6 hr difference and our mutual calendars.  I'm not a pro photogrpaher so my real job has to come 1st ....occasionally  
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Mike Broomfield
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chris anderson
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« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2007, 08:32:29 PM »
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Mike,
I have seen colors go flat before on other inkjet printers, just like your samples show, and it was usally associated with a bad paper profile or a clogger head.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 08:33:13 PM by chris anderson » Logged
dkeyes
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« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2007, 12:46:39 AM »
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Mike,
I have seen colors go flat before on other inkjet printers, just like your samples show, and it was usally associated with a bad paper profile or a clogger head.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97416\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Quote from: chris anderson,Jan 24 2007, 06:32 PM

mike,

I also agree with the clogged head. Could be a bad black or grey cartridge as well. See if the place that sold it to you will give you some new cartidges to try.

Does it have a test print mode to see what colors are printing well and what aren't?

That fact that it changes from print to print makes me think it's not the profile. Those are consistent usually.
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neil snape
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« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2007, 01:50:44 AM »
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I also agree with the clogged head. Could be a bad black or grey cartridge as well. See if the place that sold it to you will give you some new cartidges to try.

Does it have a test print mode to see what colors are printing well and what aren't?

That fact that it changes from print to print makes me think it's not the profile. Those are consistent usually.


It can also be the LUT for the calibration associated to the media.

I could tell you in a second if it's not in the raw calibration , yet if the print of the profiling chart is whacked with lack of black in the shadows (overprinting darks) then it is the cal.

I doubt it is a cartridge and pretend to think it would be the Mid grey or Black print head.

And yes this is a problem that you shouldn't spend YOUR money on fixing.

Good news, I haven't seen this problem yet on any other Z printer yet. Also if it is a print head it would do this. If you could send me the profile for the media or just do your own soft proofing you should be able to see if it is in the profile.
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Christopher
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« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2007, 04:35:14 AM »
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Ok, Now which ink is the printer using if calibrated to Fine Art Paper >250 ? I think it is Matt black, so that the colors are not right is normal. Ok it doesn't explain why the first half of the print is fine :-P, but sometimes there are some really strange things going on.

I also know and understand that you don't want to do any more prints in wasting money. Just the question I asked aboth.

Did you try to change the thickness in the papersetting ? I mean if you profile to Semi or glossy than automaticly the program chosses "normal". Now You can edit these settings and change it to "thick". I just don't understand, why there are no strips in the first one and some in your second one. I mean I REALLY DON'T believe that a little bit more ink lay down will change the shape of a paper like HM FAP. So if the shape is the same between first and second print.. why is there the diffrence in stripes ? I really would wish I had some FAP to test it myself, but as you said. I don't want to waste any money on Paper I will never use again.

EDIT: Was the print from a sheet or roll ?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2007, 04:36:00 AM by Christopher » Logged

mcbroomf
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« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2007, 07:42:43 AM »
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Thanks for the responses guys.  To be honest after that 1st print I didn't focus on the issue I saw on the foliage picture as the zebra stripes were so evident on the 2nd and all subsequent images.  After I printed the 1st picture though, realising that I had chosen the wrong paper type, I simply recalibrated and created a new profile using the Photo Semigloss paper setting.  In both the cal and profile patterna I didn't see anything that suggested either head or ink cartridge problems.  I've also done an alignment check and a paper feed check and those patterns look good as well, with very fine lines showing no signs of drop out.  On the prints and test print sections I've made since the 1st one I've not seen the flat grey issue come back with the correct profile, but I've not reprinted that image.

So I suppose I'm kind of dismissing this issue for the time being until I can see the stripe problem resolved which, on my printer and apparently on the printers in the HP Tech Support area, is pretty pervasive.  By the way to answer Christopher, all of these prints were made on a 24" roll of HM FAP.  The only other print I made was on an Epson Premium Lustre roll (17") to determine if I may have a bad roll of FAP.  I mentioned above that I got slight banding on that print, but if the heads have been hitting the paper I'm not surprised something might now be slightly out fo whack.  I've not done any more alignment/calibration tests since then.  For regular banding issues the troubleshooting guide that is installed with the printer software says to do a head clean, alignment check, paper feed check in that order, so I would start from there if I felt like playing some more.

I don't think I'll be doing any more tests, at least until I speak to HP Engineering next Tuesday.
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Mike Broomfield
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« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2007, 07:45:53 AM »
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..... If you could send me the profile for the media or just do your own soft proofing you should be able to see if it is in the profile.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97446\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Neil, I'll do a soft proof on Friday or Saturday (not at home until then) and inspect that area again.  If it's not evident I'll be in touch.

Thanks
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Mike Broomfield
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chris anderson
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« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2007, 02:17:30 PM »
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Mike,
 Is the paper you are having head strike issues with on a 2 or 3 inch core?
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2007, 03:24:29 PM »
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Hi Chris,
It's a 3" core.
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Mike Broomfield
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« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2007, 03:30:21 PM »
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Guys at colorbyte have seen the head strike on 2 inch cored paper but not the 3 inch rolls.
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ricgal
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« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2007, 01:56:53 AM »
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Hi-  I have just bought a 3100 and have been following with interest.  i had majour problems with headstrikes on a 4000 and daVinci fibre gloss which has a very strong curl.  i wound up back rolling the whole roll for a few hours and then rolling it the right way loosley befor printing-  as a short term fix is this feasble?
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Christopher
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« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2007, 03:35:57 AM »
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Hi-  I have just bought a 3100 and have been following with interest.  i had majour problems with headstrikes on a 4000 and daVinci fibre gloss which has a very strong curl.  i wound up back rolling the whole roll for a few hours and then rolling it the right way loosley befor printing-  as a short term fix is this feasble?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97617\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Curl is one thing, but not the only problem. IF IT WAS ONLY a CURL PROBLEM, than it would show up in every paper setting and it hasn't show up in his first print...
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2007, 12:13:22 PM »
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Christopher,
I'm going to reprofile using a thicker paper setting this weekend as you suggested a few posts above.  HP have also asked me to do this.  

How is this done? (I'm not with the printer right now so I don't have the software to look at).  When creating a new custom paper I don't remember there being a seperate window or tab to change the paper setting to "thick" after selecting Photo Semigloss.
Can you, or anyone else let me know?  

I'll also proof my old profile with Fine Art > 250 to see if the profile is bad as Neil suggested.

Thanks

Mike
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Mike Broomfield
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Christopher
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« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2007, 01:12:27 PM »
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Christopher,
I'm going to reprofile using a thicker paper setting this weekend as you suggested a few posts above.  HP have also asked me to do this. 

How is this done? (I'm not with the printer right now so I don't have the software to look at).  When creating a new custom paper I don't remember there being a seperate window or tab to change the paper setting to "thick" after selecting Photo Semigloss.
Can you, or anyone else let me know? 

I'll also proof my old profile with Fine Art > 250 to see if the profile is bad as Neil suggested.

Thanks

Mike
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97665\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ok, I'm in Germany right now so I also don't have access to th printer software. But I try to help.

You don't have to recalibrate. In the HP "Color Center" there is a option which is called "Edit Paper" Or something like that. There you can see all the papers and if you select for example a glossy/semi paper than there is the paper thickness option.

I think it should be the third icon in the first row. First there is create ICC profile, second is somethin again with profiles and the third icon is about the paper settings.

I'm looking forward to hear from you whether it helped ot, if there really is a strange problem with some papers and the z3100.
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2007, 01:43:53 PM »
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Thanks Christopher, I think this will help, and I'll definitely post my update, although it may be Sunday evening.
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Mike Broomfield
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2007, 11:20:18 AM »
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I just finished printing two 8x23 test sections on HM FAP.  One small strike area seen.

I found the way to adjust the paper thickness.  Go to the HP Colour Center and select Manage Papers.  You can change the thickness in the Change Printing Properties section.  It seems a little odd that when you create a new custom paper you'd have to do this afterwards then go back to calibrate and profile.

So after adjusting the thickness I recalibrated and reprofiled.  The result is that I only got one small area of head strike stripes, a small section in one column instead of up to 5 somewhat continuous columns as before on the worst print with a heavy dark load.   Also the very noticeable single, not repeating, wide band across the print about 1" from the end was reduced, but not eliminated.  So not too surprising that there is an improvement, given that the change moves the head further away but not enough to compensate.

I found a way to watch the paper buckle that the HP Support Tech described to me.

Shine a light onto the top opening (lid closed).  When the print has run about 2" or so through the heads and is starting to emerge from the spindle with the little pizza wheels just look straight into the printer where the paper emerges along the surface of the print.  If the light is positioned correctly you should see a white reflection against a piece of the printer holding the paper down (I think).  This reflection allows you to see the profile of the paper as it's coming out.  The buckle is VERY evident on the HM FAP I was running.  
I'd be interested in what HM PR 308 looks like if someone is running a 24" roll and cares to look.  On my Epson 4000 it's my favorite paper and I had planned to use it on this printer as well.  I know some people have mentioned that it's printing OK.

I was going to proof the foliage print with the profile I made using the Thick Fine Art (>250 g/m2) setting I used as Neil suggested, but I goofed.  When I got home this morning I decided to start by cleaning up all the custom profiles I made and don't use before reprofiling the HM FAP and I forgot I needed that old profile.  I did proof using the new profile on that print and although there are some minor changes the greys and tree trunks look OK.

I also ran into the landscape/portrait problem that Andre mentioned.  My test prints had been 8x23 or so portions cropped horizontally from portrait images.  I had made a 9x24 custom paper size and had no issues printing them.  I decided to make a new test image and cropped an 8x23 section from a new image.  This one was a landscape image so I was cropping vertically.  To print I used the same custom 9x24 setup, but switched to landscape mode.  The paper setup image looked fine and placed the image correctly, but when it started to print it was printing it as a portrait, ie only 8" wide.  I cancelled the job in the windows print queue and it carried on printing.  Then I cancelled it on the printer using the X button.  It immediately spat out the paper and cut it off, but the Cancelling Print .....tif message never cleared and the next test print I sent it never started.  I had to power cycle it to clear.  Worked OK afterwards though.

That's all folks.  I hope to be talking to HP on Tuesday morning.
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Mike Broomfield
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