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Author Topic: Hasselblad release H3D 31  (Read 25669 times)
Nick_T
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« on: January 24, 2007, 12:33:40 PM »
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Hasselblad have released the H3D 31 (Same chip as the P30)
Press release here:

http://www.adcomms.co.uk/cpressr2.aspx?prid=6923

Nick-T
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william
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2007, 01:26:41 PM »
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$25,000 seems awfully high, in light of the competing products from Leaf and Phase....(yes, I realize that you get a camera along with the back with the H3D, but still)

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Hasselblad have released the H3D 31 (Same chip as the P30)
Press release here:

http://www.adcomms.co.uk/cpressr2.aspx?prid=6923

Nick-T
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mcfoto
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2007, 03:20:23 PM »
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Hi
The cature rate with the 31 is 1.2 f/s and this is the smaller chip. The new Aptus series backs will be .8 .9 and 1.1 f/sec ( 22mp, 28mp and 33mp). Like in TOP GUN " I feel the need fo speed"
LOL Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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pprdigital
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2007, 04:09:02 PM »
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$25,000 seems awfully high, in light of the competing products from Leaf and Phase....(yes, I realize that you get a camera along with the back with the H3D, but still)
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Regarding the competing products from Leaf and Phase:

MSRP prices:
Phase One P30 & H2 kit: $25K
Leaf Aptus 65 & H2 Kit: $26K
Hasselblad H3D-31: $25K

I don't see any issue with the price.


Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2007, 05:27:28 PM »
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I don't see any issue with the price.
Steve Hendrix
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other then that the prices listed are retail h2 prices (8000? for a body+80mm)....and it would be a chance for them to undercut other prices....

besides: hass is again one step behind...this H3/31 is announced, i doubt it will ship before the p30+ which is the "next generation" of this back.....
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pprdigital
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2007, 06:02:46 PM »
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other then that the prices listed are retail h2 prices (8000? for a body+80mm)....and it would be a chance for them to undercut other prices....

besides: hass is again one step behind...this H3/31 is announced, i doubt it will ship before the p30+ which is the "next generation" of this back.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97377\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not following you there, Paul. All the prices are retail. P30's for instance are frequently sold well below $17K by dealers, and H3D-31's can also be sold below the $25K retail.

And sorry, but you're wrong on being behind. The H3D-31 is shipping NOW. Um, when is the P30+ shipping? It's nice to have a product announcement when you can actually see and feel the product the day it's announced instead of waiting 6 months or longer.

The H3D-31 already shoots faster than the P30+ (1.2 seconds per frame vs 1.25 seconds per frame), so I would say it's a step ahead, rather than behind.

Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
BlasR
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« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2007, 06:22:41 PM »
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What about if Hasselblad come with another h4, 6 months from now, and more lents just for the h4,not for h3.  them you get stock, again, with h3 lens, Like I'm stock with my h1?  with phase one, you wait 6 month but you get it right.

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pprdigital
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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2007, 06:28:33 PM »
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What about if Hasselblad come with another h4, 6 months from now, and more lents just for the h4,not for h3.  them you get stock, again, with h3 lens, Like I'm stock with my h1?  with phase one, you wait 6 month but you get it right.

BlasR
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BlasR:

Your H1 lenses will work just fine with the H3D-31.

Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2007, 06:32:55 PM »
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Steve,
But not the lens for the h3 will work for my h1.
So I need to change to h3 ?

BlasR
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pprdigital
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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2007, 06:42:18 PM »
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Steve,
But not the lens for the h3 will work for my h1.
So I need to change to h3 ?

BlasR
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Lenses made specifically for the H3D (designated HCD lenses) will only work with H3D-39, H3D-31 or H3D-22. If you have an H1, and upgrade to an H3D, all the HC lenses you currently own will work with the H3D, as well as future HCD lenses.

Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2007, 06:49:34 PM »
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Not following you there, Paul. All the prices are retail. P30's for instance are frequently sold well below $17K by dealers, and H3D-31's can also be sold below the $25K retail.

And sorry, but you're wrong on being behind. The H3D-31 is shipping NOW. Um, when is the P30+ shipping? It's nice to have a product announcement when you can actually see and feel the product the day it's announced instead of waiting 6 months or longer.

The H3D-31 already shoots faster than the P30+ (1.2 seconds per frame vs 1.25 seconds per frame), so I would say it's a step ahead, rather than behind.

Steve Hendrix
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Steve,

C'mon now.  Awfully snappy aren't you?

Lets talk apples to apples here.

From what I am hearing the H3D only ships with the Back and a H2/H3 Body.

H2 body = $3,120

This makes the H3D-31 back list for approx. $21,875

New P30 = $16,990 list

Price difference at list = $4,885

Steve, this is a huge difference.  And from what I can tell all the specs are pretty much identical.  I can't believe that you are snapping at paul about 5/100ths of a second capture rate.    I can't remember the last time a photographer said "you know, i really wish that this back shot 5/100ths faster.  That would really help my shooting style."

OK, good for hasse for shipping when the product is announced.  I will give them credit for that.  But wouldn't you, as a reseller, have appreciated this announcement at the end of the tax year of 2006 rather than 3rd week of January?  

We have been shipping P30's for 14 months now.  That is an eternity in the digital age.  I would have to lean towards agreeing with Paul thinking that Hasse is just one step behind Phase One again.   Couple that with the fact that the +'s will be shipping in just 6 weeks, and Hasse is playing catch up in my opinion.
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Sincerely,

Dave Gallagher
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« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2007, 07:19:30 PM »
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Steve,
If I need to upgrade to h3 can I used my Phase One p25= p25+, (I just pay today for the upgrade).
Or I just need to used Hasselblad digital Back?

I think i'm stock with h1/h2, because i'm very happy with my p25.

Oh well, I will keep using canon, for more choise of lenses



BlasR


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Lenses made specifically for the H3D (designated HCD lenses) will only work with H3D-39, H3D-31 or H3D-22. If you have an H1, and upgrade to an H3D, all the HC lenses you currently own will work with the H3D, as well as future HCD lenses.

Steve Hendrix
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pprdigital
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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2007, 07:31:02 PM »
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Steve,

C'mon now.  Awfully snappy aren't you?

Lets talk apples to apples here.

From what I am hearing the H3D only ships with the Back and a H2/H3 Body.

H2 body = $3,120

This makes the H3D-31 back list for approx. $21,875

New P30 = $16,990 list

Price difference at list = $4,885

Steve, this is a huge difference.  And from what I can tell all the specs are pretty much identical.  I can't believe that you are snapping at paul about 5/100ths of a second capture rate.    I can't remember the last time a photographer said "you know, i really wish that this back shot 5/100ths faster.  That would really help my shooting style."

OK, good for hasse for shipping when the product is announced.  I will give them credit for that.  But wouldn't you, as a reseller, have appreciated this announcement at the end of the tax year of 2006 rather than 3rd week of January?   

We have been shipping P30's for 14 months now.  That is an eternity in the digital age.  I would have to lean towards agreeing with Paul thinking that Hasse is just one step behind Phase One again.   Couple that with the fact that the +'s will be shipping in just 6 weeks, and Hasse is playing catch up in my opinion.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, Dave, it's a public forum, and everyone's entitled to their opinion, you as well as Paul. As for snappy, well you may call it snappy. It's spirited, I'll give you that. I see nothing inappropriate about the tone of my response, Paul and I know each other, and if he feels I'm "snappy", I'm sure he'll point it out to me.

My point was not that .05 seconds faster is a bragging statistic, just illustrating the point that the H3D-31 is certainly not behind the P30, Plus or no.

I have no confirmation of the H3D shipping "body only". I'm pretty sure it will need some sort of viewfinder?  I expect the H3D-31 to ship with the body, viewfinder and the stock 80mm. Perhaps the rumors of "body only" refer to potential optional skus where they un-bundle the 80mm. But if that turns out to be the case, then I would expect lower prices for those options. That will have to wait until more information is available. If for some reason the H3D-31 is body only and still at $25K, that would raise my eyebrow as well.

Again, I don't see the behind Phase angle at all. Right now, spec-wise, the H3D-31 is all over the P30. In 6 weeks, or whenever, with the P30+, we'll see. But my point is that even against the P30+, the H3D-31 compares quite well.

Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2007, 08:03:48 PM »
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Steve,

Hasse announces a back 14 months after Phase One's P30 ships with almost identical specifications and you don't think they are a step behind?  I don't think that you are being honest with yourself.

My estimate is that they have been losing so many sales to the P30 is that they decided to use the same chip, match the stats, add the price of a H2 kit to Phase's $16,990 price and put it out on the street.

Then on top of that ist the quote of "near full frame" and Hasse just seems to insult the public with marketing BS once again.
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Sincerely,

Dave Gallagher
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PHASE ONE PARTNER OF THE YEAR

Atlanta    (404) 522-7662
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2007, 08:21:51 PM »
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Steve,

Hasse announces a back 14 months after Phase One's P30 ships with almost identical specifications and you don't think they are a step behind?  I don't think that you are being honest with yourself.

My estimate is that they have been losing so many sales to the P30 is that they decided to use the same chip, match the stats, add the price of a H2 kit to Phase's $16,990 price and put it out on the street.

Then on top of that ist the quote of "near full frame" and Hasse just seems to insult the public with marketing BS once again.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97410\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Regardless of when Phase One or Hasselblad began their Kodak sensor 31MP projects, the fact remains that in 6 weeks as you say, Phase One will begin shipping a Kodak 31MP product that will be no further ahead of Hasselblad's H3D-31. The P30+ brightens the dismal LCD screen, enhances the capture speed, expands the ISO, and adds Live Video? With the exception of the exanded ISO, the H3D-31 already matches those features and is shipping today. And it's been rumoured that Hasselblad will expand the ISO as well as the long exposure times via a free software upgrade. Add to that the no-crop viewfinder and lenses, Ultra focus, and Digital APO Corrections, and again, sorry, but I don't see that as a step behind.

But you're right on the "near full frame". More medium format marketing BS.


Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
James Russell
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2007, 09:03:31 PM »
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Not following you there, Paul. All the prices are retail. P30's for instance are frequently sold well below $17K by dealers, and H3D-31's can also be sold below the $25K retail.

And sorry, but you're wrong on being behind. The H3D-31 is shipping NOW. Um, when is the P30+ shipping? It's nice to have a product announcement when you can actually see and feel the product the day it's announced instead of waiting 6 months or longer.

The H3D-31 already shoots faster than the P30+ (1.2 seconds per frame vs 1.25 seconds per frame), so I would say it's a step ahead, rather than behind.

Steve Hendrix
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Steve,

That's true, but the H3D-31 doesn't come with a software suite like C-1 and talking software, well, let's not mention leaf software at all.

Actually if your going for what is shipping and proven today, the P-30 is very good and solid and has been for a while.

The last few days I have shot thousands of frames on location, tethered and non tethered, with the P-30 without any real issues and after a job like this will not mind one bit batching out in C-1.

Also, right now the P-30 is available in almost any mount with no waiting and goes to 800 iso well.

As far as speed, the Aptus S series may be fast, but nobody has answered if they can reach this speed non compressed, which for now shooting compressed with a Leaf pretty much locks you into LC-10.  Shooting hundreds to thousands of files to that software is very diffiuclt to process in any significant numbers.

I do agree that using something that is stable and available today is a wise move, rather than wait for promises from any manufacturer.

As far as numbers, I'm not pimping Contax or Phase but take the fact that a P-30 can be had for under $17,000 and a new or like new Contax kid (with lens) can be bought for $2,800, puts the P-30 and the Contax thousands of dollars under the price of the H3d-31.

JR
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pprdigital
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« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2007, 09:21:26 PM »
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Steve,

That's true, but the H3D-31 doesn't come with a software suite like C-1 and talking software, well, let's not mention leaf software at all.

Actually if your going for what is shipping and proven today, the P-30 is very good and solid and has been for a while.

The last few days I have shot thousands of frames on location, tethered and non tethered, with the P-30 without any real issues and after a job like this will not mind one bit batching out in C-1.

Also, right now the P-30 is available in almost any mount with no waiting and goes to 800 iso well.

As far as speed, the Aptus S series may be fast, but nobody has answered if they can reach this speed non compressed, which for now shooting compressed with a Leaf pretty much locks you into LC-10.  Shooting hundreds to thousands of files to that software is very diffiuclt to process in any significant numbers.

I do agree that using something that is stable and available today is a wise move, rather than wait for promises from any manufacturer.

As far as numbers, I'm not pimping Contax or Phase but take the fact that a P-30 can be had for under $17,000 and a new or like new Contax kid (with lens) can be bought for $2,800, puts the P-30 and the Contax thousands of dollars under the price of the H3d-31.

JR
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James:

Yes.

Who mentioned Leaf software?

No, H3D's don't come with C1 (nor do they come with Leaf software, thank goodness)  . What it doesn't come with means nothing. All that has meaning is what it does come with. And it does come with Flexcolor, which is a mature, stable and full featured software that rivals C1 in functionality. Nearly everything you've mentioned C1 does, Flexcolor also does, and does well.

You make a good point with regard to your Contax kit. For now, I'm not aware that Hasselblad has announced a CF-31, which would mount to any camera system - even multiple camera systems. So, for now if someone is opting for 31MP sensor on Contax kit, the P30 is the way to go. For 31MP on H system, well that's a different story.

Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
SeanBK
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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2007, 09:25:20 PM »
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Steve,
     Is Hasselblad offering upgrade of H1 to H3D-**? and what is the cost to upgrade? U can PM me, if U want to.
     Thanks.
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James Russell
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« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2007, 05:49:28 AM »
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James:

Yes.

Who mentioned Leaf software?

No, H3D's don't come with C1 (nor do they come with Leaf software, thank goodness)  . What it doesn't come with means nothing. All that has meaning is what it does come with. And it does come with Flexcolor, which is a mature, stable and full featured software that rivals C1 in functionality. Nearly everything you've mentioned C1 does, Flexcolor also does, and does well.

You make a good point with regard to your Contax kit. For now, I'm not aware that Hasselblad has announced a CF-31, which would mount to any camera system - even multiple camera systems. So, for now if someone is opting for 31MP sensor on Contax kit, the P30 is the way to go. For 31MP on H system, well that's a different story.

Steve Hendrix
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Steve,

Since all the prices of an A-65, P-30 and HD3 are not that far apart, you have to consider useability which means workflow and speed (iso and shoot rate)

Competition should drive better products and hopefully more competitive pricing and it does suprise me that no manufacturer (including the dslrs) has come up with software as useable as C-1.

Flexcolor is better than Leaf software, C-1 is better than Flexcolor and for batching and large editing jobs C-1 is the standard by a long margin.

My point is all things being equal it's the workflow that makes a difference.

As far as mentioning it, I believe the software offering should be mentioned and discussed.

This week I will walk away with 5,000 frames all in mixed light and moving clouds.  Probably every 10 frames have to be adjusted in some way.

Having to do this with LC10 is impossible, Flexcolor less difficult, but C-1 it is just another function that really takes no thought.

As I keep saying it's the workflow.

JR
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« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2007, 09:18:05 AM »
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Steve,

Since all the prices of an A-65, P-30 and HD3 are not that far apart, you have to consider useability which means workflow and speed (iso and shoot rate)

Competition should drive better products and hopefully more competitive pricing and it does suprise me that no manufacturer (including the dslrs) has come up with software as useable as C-1.

Flexcolor is better than Leaf software, C-1 is better than Flexcolor and for batching and large editing jobs C-1 is the standard by a long margin.

My point is all things being equal it's the workflow that makes a difference.

As far as mentioning it, I believe the software offering should be mentioned and discussed.

This week I will walk away with 5,000 frames all in mixed light and moving clouds.  Probably every 10 frames have to be adjusted in some way.

Having to do this with LC10 is impossible, Flexcolor less difficult, but C-1 it is just another function that really takes no thought.

As I keep saying it's the workflow.

JR
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James:

I agree software should be mentioned, I was only referring that Leaf software - and it's failures - has nothing to do with Flexcolor.

Most software for capture is really poor - especially 35mmDSLR software. C1 does what it should do and does it well. And it's to Phase One's credit that they have updated C1 consistently and maintained it's performance while expanding it's capabilities.

Hasselblad has done the same with Flexcolor.  It's extremely easy and fast to batch and edit with Flexcolor. Make an adjustment, select the images that are to be modified with that adjustment, click ok. That's it. As a true, multi-threaded application it will apply those modifications in the background quickly and easily.

Flexcolor is also free, chocked full of features, is updated frequently, and can be used on as many computers as you like with no licensing restrictions.

You and I agree that workflow is key. I don't agree that Flexcolor takes a back seat there.

Steve Hendrix
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