Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Sinar - Sinar Hy6 - Jenoptik - F&H, etc ....  (Read 19488 times)
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« on: January 30, 2007, 05:48:29 AM »
ReplyReply

Dear All,

It is my feeling that it has become necessary to give some information again about the whole situation: Sinar, Hy6, Jenoptik, Franke & Heidecke, who is the owner of the project, who has which rights, who owns who, etc ....

I will try to make it as clear as possible to everybody, since there seems to be much confusion and wrong information circulating around. What I will be writing are all known facts and not confidential at all. As such, you can take my information as an official one, since I am signing with "Sinar AG Switzerland", or then you can get this same information from Sinar AG directly in Switzerland.

All other information not included or mentioned below is either unknown from me, or then confidential, and will be communicated at the appropriate time, if necessary.

- Jenoptik AG Germany owes Sinar AG Switzerland ---> www.jenoptik.com

- Sinar is integrated in the "Laser - Optic and Sensors Systems" division of Jenoptik = Jenoptik-LOS GmbH
for more information go to following link:

http://www.jenoptik-los.com/cms.php?pageid=60?=1

- It has been announced and pupblished officially (Press Release dated December 13th 2006) that the Jenoptik AG - Leica AG sale/purchase agreement of Sinar AG had been canceled:

---> http://www.jenoptik.com/cps/rde/xchg/SID-2...l/3725_4723.htm

- Jenoptik AG has developped (R&D), financed (paid for) the project of the new camera known under the names Sinar Hy6 and Leaf AFi and appointed Franke & Heidecke Germany to manufacture it.

- As such, Jenoptik HAS the exclusive sales rights for this particular camera and has given these sales rights to Sinar AG and Kodak- Leaf, whatever are the terms of these agreements.

- Franke & Heidecke has the rights to sell this camera in Japan, China and Russia ONLY, AND under the name "Rolleiflex" (and has not the rights to sell it to Phase One).

- Phase One is not part of this project, which means in clear that this camera will not be sold to Phase One.

- Sinar AG has no plans to provide adapter plates for either Phase One or Hasselblad digital backs.

- The Sinar Hy6 camera will be released by end of the second quarter of 2007: Production is started with the 0-series to be ready in a few weeks.

- Prices, Upgrades and possibe Kits available will be communicated through the official Sinar distributors worldwide and in due time, except for Japan, China and Russia.

Thanks to all,
Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4207



« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2007, 06:05:34 AM »
ReplyReply

As this welcome statement is hard to read when it's long I've done some clipping.

It seems the  schedule is slipping slightly.

Also, we would need to know whether Phase *can* supply backs for the Hy6 without infringing on any IP that belongs to Sinar. This is not clear yet.

In summary, at the moment, it looks like you can buy Hasselblad, Leaf/Sinar, Sinar/Sinar (rebadged Leaf/Sinar ?) or Mamiya/Phase if you want an MF camera that is in production. The days of match and mix are fading.

In this context the Hy6 had better be appealing, because they are starting from a zero-customer base for the camera system itself ! If I may be allowed to speculate, I think we can expect a cheap bundle with an existing chip (65 ?) and a killer announcement of the next chip generation at the time the Hy6 is really launched ...

Edmund

Quote
Dear All,

- Phase One is not part of this project, which means in clear that this camera will not be sold to Phase One.

- Sinar AG has no plans to provide adapter plates for either Phase One or Hasselblad digital backs.

- The Sinar Hy6 camera will be released by end of the second quarter of 2007: Production is started with the 0-series to be ready in a few weeks.

Sinar AG Switzerland
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98274\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2007, 06:27:54 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
As this welcome statement is hard to read when it's long I've done some clipping.

It seems the  schedule is slipping slightly.

Also, we would need to know whether Phase *can* supply backs for the Hy6 without infringing on any IP that belongs to Sinar. This is not clear yet.

In summary, at the moment, it looks like you can buy Hasselblad, Leaf/Sinar, Sinar/Sinar (rebadged Leaf/Sinar ?) or Mamiya/Phase if you want an MF camera that is in production. The days of match and mix are fading.

In this context the Hy6 had better be appealing, because they are starting from a zero-customer base for the camera system itself ! If I may be allowed to speculate, I think we can expect a cheap bundle with an existing chip (65 ?) and a killer announcement of the next chip generation at the time the Hy6 is really launched ...

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98277\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dear Edmund,

- "schedule slipping": we (Sinar) have always given the release date between April and June 2007: so we are still within.  
- nobody can stop somebody to crack the communication interface and manufacre its own adapter system. It is therefore Phase One's own and sole decision to do this, if they find any interest in it.
- why do you want to re-badge "Sinar/Sinar" into "Leaf/Sinar"? In this case one could also re-badge Leaf/Leaf.  
- speculations: as said, all information not included in my statement are still either unknown or confidential. I will therefore let you speculate.  

All the best,
Thierry
Sinar AG
Switzerland
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
SeanBK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 510


« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2007, 08:02:01 AM »
ReplyReply

Thierry,
         Thank you for thorough & precise explanation. I don't think it was long. I will be looking forward to the product, when it is released in 07. Frankly I really don't care, what the name is.... as they say Rose is a rose. I am really glad that there will a new player in the maarket, competition is always good.
         Congratulations & wish you the best as I am sure lotsa people worked very hard & did their best to make a good product.
Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2007, 08:20:53 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Thierry,
         Thank you for thorough & precise explanation. I don't think it was long. I will be looking forward to the product, when it is released in 07. Frankly I really don't care, what the name is.... as they say Rose is a rose. I am really glad that there will a new player in the maarket, competition is always good.
         Congratulations & wish you the best as I am sure lotsa people worked very hard & did their best to make a good product.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98291\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you Sean, for the compliments: it is nice and good to hear!

Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4207



« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2007, 08:30:44 AM »
ReplyReply

Thierry,

 Thank you for your explanation. It is interesting that Sinar is taking the approach of NOT using encryption etc to lock out any add-ons to their system like the inkjet guys do. This is refreshing.

 I believe all of us look forward to the release of the Hy6 with eager anticipation

Edmund
Logged
hcubell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 731


WWW
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2007, 12:31:04 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Thierry,

 Thank you for your explanation. It is interesting that Sinar is taking the approach of NOT using encryption etc to lock out any add-ons to their system like the inkjet guys do. This is refreshing.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98296\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Who knows if the Hy6 cameras will ship so that they can only operate with a Sinar or Leaf back so that in theory you will be able to mount a Phase back on it. However, if you have to buy a Leaf or Sinar back to get the camera(i.e., it will only be available bundled), which I believe will be the case, I don't think many photographers will be following that path. As you will see, there is more than one way to "lock out" Phase. So, please don't feel refreshed just yet. [G]
Logged

samuel_js
Guest
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2007, 03:45:45 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
- Franke & Heidecke has the rights to sell this camera in Japan, China and Russia ONLY, AND under the name "Rolleiflex" (and has not the rights to sell it to Phase One).


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98274\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So the hy6 Rolleiflex wont't be avaible in europe or USA?  
To me all this sounds like Hasselblad is going to win this battle, easier than I thought.....  

BR
Samuel
« Last Edit: January 30, 2007, 04:07:48 PM by samuel_js » Logged
Graham Mitchell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2282



WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2007, 03:46:47 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
However, if you have to buy a Leaf or Sinar back to get the camera(i.e., it will only be available bundled), which I believe will be the case, I don't think many photographers will be following that path.

I'm almost certain this won't be the case. For one thing, this is a film camera as well as a digital body. Afaik, it will be available to film users.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2007, 03:47:46 PM by foto-z » Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
hcubell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 731


WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2007, 05:20:59 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I'm almost certain this won't be the case. For one thing, this is a film camera as well as a digital body. Afaik, it will be available to film users.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98371\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You do know that the H3D is also a "film camera".
As for whether Sinar/Leaf intend to "lock out" Phase backs, it seems clear to me from everything that Sinar/Leaf have said that that is their intent. Of course, there are unfair competition laws in the US and Europe that may prevent them from coming out and saying that they are trying to take sales away from Phase by forcing you to buy a Sinar or Leaf back if you want a Hy6. They have to be careful about how they describe their motivation. Phase would have done the exact same thing if it had the  financial resources and was not arrogant about its market position.
Will this move by Sinar/Leaf pay off? Who knows, but I will bet that a lot of people that would not have given one second of attention to a Sinar back will take a real close look once the Hy6 comes out because if you want a Hy6, you will have to get the back(or a Leaf). It's the exact same thing Hasselblad did with the H3D except Hasselblad already had the camera, and I do believe that people who would not looked for a second at a Hasselblad back have been doing so. (Actually, Hasselblad is not quite so aggressive in pursuing a "closed" system approach, as you can still buy an H2 and put anybody's back on it.)
Logged

rainer_v
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1134


WWW
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2007, 06:20:10 PM »
ReplyReply

why everybody is so stressed about that the companies try to force their customers to stay with them longer than 1 generation of backs?
everybody did so before the closed camera systems also, the upgrade politics of the past is nothing other- it makes it very expansive to change the system and so very few people changed after once they have had a phase back.  phase acted here very aggressive, with the result that they made red numbers although selling the most backs.
no wonder that sinar / leaf try to keep them out if they can .....

if you want a open system i think its still not a great problem, cause there are several "open" systems in the market, as contax, mamiya, hassy 1+2d. the HY6 will not be the "onliest" solution you have to go if you dont want to do that, simply dont buy it and buy one of the other camera brands.
in general  i dont see why its so dramatic that a more or less perfect developed system will not have much future, as the contax. worther it would be if the back manufactors would decide not to make their new backs in the future compatible with this open camera systems, but why should they do that...... ( and if you would go with the mamiya you will save so much money that you can upgrade your back one time without any costs ).
Logged

rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
munich / germany

www.tangential.de
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2007, 01:29:59 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
So the hy6 Rolleiflex wont't be avaible in europe or USA?  
To me all this sounds like Hasselblad is going to win this battle, easier than I thought.....  

BR
Samuel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98369\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dear Samuel,

nobody said that the Hy6 is not available in Europe or in the USA. I said: F&H has the sales right for this camera (branded Rolleiflex) in the japanese, chinese and russian markets, only.

Best regards,

Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2007, 01:35:20 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I'm almost certain this won't be the case. For one thing, this is a film camera as well as a digital body. Afaik, it will be available to film users.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98371\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

To make it clear to all: NO, nobody at Sinar will force you to buy a Sinarback if you wish to get the Sinar Hy6. In the same way: Sinar has never forced a customer to buy a Sinarback when purchasing a Sinar p2, a "x", a f2 or a f3, etc ...

I hope this puts a final point to the discussion.

Best regards,
Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
rainer_v
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1134


WWW
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2007, 02:06:52 AM »
ReplyReply

hi thierry,
good afternoon.

one (last?) question..:
will the Leaf back- plate be the same than the SINAR, or will they be different?
Will it be possible to use a SINAr back on a Afi camera or a Leaf back on a HY6?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 02:07:16 AM by rehnniar » Logged

rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
munich / germany

www.tangential.de
samuel_js
Guest
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2007, 02:27:10 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Dear Samuel,

nobody said that the Hy6 is not available in Europe or in the USA. I said: F&H has the sales right for this camera (branded Rolleiflex) in the japanese, chinese and russian markets, only.

Best regards,

Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98460\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I mean, the camera will be sold branded as Rolleiflex in Europe too?
Thanks
Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2007, 02:31:13 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I mean, the camera will be sold branded as Rolleiflex in Europe too?
Thanks
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98466\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dear Samuel,

I said: F&H has the sales rights for Japan, China and Russia, branded as Rolleiflex, ONLY.

So obviously the naswer to your question is NO, if one consider that Russia is out of Europe (which s actually the case).

Best regards,
Thierry
Sinar AG Switzerland
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2007, 02:53:21 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
hi thierry,
good afternoon.

one (last?) question..:
will the Leaf back- plate be the same than the SINAR, or will they be different?
Will it be possible to use a SINAr back on a Afi camera or a Leaf back on a HY6?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98464\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


hi Rainer,

Fine, and yourself?

As for your question: the today's stand of the things makes it possible to mount and use and Sinarback on an AFi, and a Leaf back on a Hy6.

Have a nice day,
Thierry
Sinar Ag Switzerland
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
Streetshooter
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 133


« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2007, 03:10:11 AM »
ReplyReply

This is all so confusing, or am I being thick ?  So the Rollei is not available in the USA and Europe. Unless of course I travel abroad to get one, and then what about the service if it goes wrong.

I bet Hasselblad are laughing themselves silly. They're going to be selling truckloads more of their cameras as a  result. Trouble is I hate their H cameras. All it needs now is for Phase to resurrect the Contax brand and sell it in every country around the world, at the same time supplying good back up. They'll sell truckloads too.

My 2 cents.

Pete
Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2007, 03:12:43 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
This is all so confusing, or am I being thick ?  So the Rollei is not available in the USA and Europe. Unless of course I travel abroad to get one, and then what about the service if it goes wrong.

I bet Hasselblad are laughing themselves silly. They're going to be selling truckloads more of their cameras as a  result. Trouble is I hate their H cameras. All it needs now is for Phase to resurrect the Contax brand and sell it in every country around the world, at the same time supplying good back up. They'll sell truckloads too.

My 2 cents.

Pete
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98472\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Pete,

Once again: There is no Rollei! There will be a Rolleiflex branded camera in Japan , China and Russia, sold by F&H. In ALL other countries it will be sold by Sinar with the name Sinar Hy6.

Best regards,
thierry
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
Streetshooter
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 133


« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2007, 03:46:05 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Pete,

Once again: There is no Rollei! There will be a Rolleiflex branded camera in Japan , China and Russia, sold by F&H. In ALL other countries it will be sold by Sinar with the name Sinar Hy6.

Best regards,
thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98473\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Thierry,

I was being thick !  Hopefully then, the Sinar back up and Marketing will be better than Rollei's have been these last few years.

Many thanks

Pete
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad