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Author Topic: "Cheap" H3D Vs "Expensive" P45+ ??  (Read 7086 times)
Mort54
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« on: February 10, 2007, 09:58:28 PM »
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An online dealer in the U.S. is advertising a Hasselblad H3D-39, with 39 MP sensor and 80 mm lens, all for $31,995. Another online dealer in the U.S. is pricing a P45 back alone at $26,990 and a P45+ back alone at $29,990. That means I could get a full H3D-39, with back and lens, for only $2K more than a P45+ back alone. So what am I missing here? It would take me a lot more than $2K to buy a comparable body and lens to use with the P45+ back. Do these seem like reasonable prices for the Phase P45 and P45+ backs, or should I expect the real price to be less and more competitive with the Hasselblad system? I realize there are system differences, and personal preferences, but based on these prices, it seems that the P45+ back is priced uncompetitively.
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rainer_v
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2007, 03:17:34 AM »
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An online dealer in the U.S. is advertising a Hasselblad H3D-39, with 39 MP sensor and 80 mm lens, all for $31,995. Another online dealer in the U.S. is pricing a P45 back alone at $26,990 and a P45+ back alone at $29,990. That means I could get a full H3D-39, with back and lens, for only $2K more than a P45+ back alone. So what am I missing here? It would take me a lot more than $2K to buy a comparable body and lens to use with the P45+ back. Do these seem like reasonable prices for the Phase P45 and P45+ backs, or should I expect the real price to be less and more competitive with the Hasselblad system? I realize there are system differences, and personal preferences, but based on these prices, it seems that the P45+ back is priced uncompetitively.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100263\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
isnt the H3 together with an  imacon back? so you compare two completely different backs,
just the sensor is the same....  it would not cost you much more than 2000$ if you go to a second camera solution.... as a contax or mamiya. still cant see the big advantage of the H3 over this systems.
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rainer viertlböck
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Mort54
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2007, 10:35:00 AM »
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isnt the H3 together with an  imacon back? so you compare two completely different backs,
just the sensor is the same....  it would not cost you much more than 2000$ if you go to a second camera solution.... as a contax or mamiya. still cant see the big advantage of the H3 over this systems.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100292\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Rehnniar. My point was that for only $2K USD more than a P45+ back alone, you can get a Hasselblad body, 39 MP back, and a relatively expensive lens. I don't see how I could get both a comparable new body and new lens for only $2K USD (maybe used, but not new). I personally don't like the Hasselblad system, but it seems like the package price I'm seeing for the H3D is pretty good (relatively speaking) and would be hard to match with a P45+ system. So again, my question is whether the P45+ pricing I mentioned in my initial post at the top of the thread is reasonable, or can the P45+ back be obtained for less?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 10:38:02 AM by Mort54 » Logged

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pss
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2007, 12:36:11 PM »
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the 45+ back is actually the better deal...considering that the hass back (as far i have seen files) is not really as good as the P45 and the P45+ will be even better...and you don't like the hass system (which i can understand)...what is the problem? you get the P45+ and have 2000 to buy a contax or mamiya system....you end up spending about the same amount, but get better files....
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pprdigital
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2007, 04:26:19 PM »
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Hi Rehnniar. My point was that for only $2K USD more than a P45+ back alone, you can get a Hasselblad body, 39 MP back, and a relatively expensive lens. I don't see how I could get both a comparable new body and new lens for only $2K USD (maybe used, but not new). I personally don't like the Hasselblad system, but it seems like the package price I'm seeing for the H3D is pretty good (relatively speaking) and would be hard to match with a P45+ system. So again, my question is whether the P45+ pricing I mentioned in my initial post at the top of the thread is reasonable, or can the P45+ back be obtained for less?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100322\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mort:

If you don't like the Hasselblad system, then it is sort of a moot point. You might consider trying out a P45 on your camera of choice, and a Hasselblad CF-39, also on the camera of choice. The CF-39 is a platform-neutral digital back from Hasselblad that will go on any camera you like. Both models sell for the same amount - $29,990.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
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Steve Hendrix
narikin
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2007, 08:32:40 AM »
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An online dealer in the U.S. is advertising a Hasselblad H3D-39, with 39 MP sensor and 80 mm lens, all for $31,995. Another online dealer in the U.S. is pricing a P45 back alone at $26,990 and a P45+ back alone at $29,990. That means I could get a full H3D-39, with back and lens, for only $2K more than a P45+ back alone. So what am I missing here? It would take me a lot more than $2K to buy a comparable body and lens to use with the P45+ back. Do these seem like reasonable prices for the Phase P45 and P45+ backs, or should I expect the real price to be less and more competitive with the Hasselblad system? I realize there are system differences, and personal preferences, but based on these prices, it seems that the P45+ back is priced uncompetitively.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100263\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
your prices are all wack:   n-e-g-o-t-i-a-t-e
you can get a P45+ 3 yr warranty for at least $3000 less than what you say, including everything. delivery, taxes, the whole kit and kaboodle.
that leaves you $5000 for a camera of your choice.

I agree with others here, if you don't like the H system Hasselblad (I too can understand that - it feels like a toy) and the + version delivers on its promises, then its a slam-dunk for Phase.
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Mort54
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2007, 10:32:51 AM »
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your prices are all wack:   n-e-g-o-t-i-a-t-e
you can get a P45+ 3 yr warranty for at least $3000 less than what you say, including everything. delivery, taxes, the whole kit and kaboodle.
that leaves you $5000 for a camera of your choice.

I agree with others here, if you don't like the H system Hasselblad (I too can understand that - it feels like a toy) and the + version delivers on its promises, then its a slam-dunk for Phase.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100464\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks. That's the sort of information I was looking for.

Hans.
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rob3rt5
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2007, 03:33:04 PM »
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Thanks. That's the sort of information I was looking for.

Hans.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100488\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You might also consider getting an H2 outfit used and then get a P45+ later...best of both worlds?
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RicAgu
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2007, 06:09:32 PM »
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You know, Hasselblad had some kind of upgrade that you could get the H3D 39mp kit for $31k and you had your choice of any lens other than the 300mm for free with a Pelican style case included.

I have shot with the Hasselblad back and own a P25 and have really battled with which way to upgrade.  I am heavily invested in the H series and like the system.  

What I do like about Hasselblad is the transparency of the the firmware upgrade for better ISO.  Where Phase is selling it as a major "UPGRADE" and you have to pay $5k to $10K to get the "better" results is a bit annoying.

The guys at Hasselblad have been amazing with Phone support and even coming to your Studio to walk you through things.  Now they just need to have a dedicated teaching center that give classes in the major cities on the use of Flexcolor.  It is a pretty powerful tool, but a bit confusing with a big learning curve.

An H3D 39 kit with a free lens and case for $31k is not bad.  I am not sure what kind fo H3D 31 special they will be coming out with.  But can you imagine two lenses and Digibody for $17k?

Best of luck
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pss
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2007, 06:35:56 PM »
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An H3D 39 kit with a free lens and case for $31k is not bad.  I am not sure what kind fo H3D 31 special they will be coming out with.  But can you imagine two lenses and Digibody for $17k?

Best of luck
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107966\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i think that would be a realistic price  (17-18000) for a P30 with a mamiya 645afd plus 2 lenses...
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digitalguy
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2007, 07:01:12 PM »
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I would definitely speak to an authorized dealer of whatever digital back platform of choice is. Once you engage one of these guys (the reputible ones) they will help you decide and work up a package for you. I know for a fact that they can beat the price with a Mamiya 645AFD system and P45+ 3 year for the price of teh H3d, and for 3k more you can get the system with a 3yr warranty and a one year swapout priveledge. So when the 'next' camera platform ships, you can swap at n/c .
You can even do better with a P30+ bundle from a dealer that will be closer to the H3d31.

Also look into the bigger picture as well, workflow. How do you plan to process your RAWS, is it important to you that PhaseOne has developed and set the bar for RAW processing that if you are moving up from a DSLR , you can use one application for all your files. Sure there is lightroom out there now as well, but I believe that if a company develops software for thier back most likely that will yeild the best results for that hardware. As we have seen in previous posts, there are some manufactures who can still not produce consistent stable releases of thier own software (multi-platform), so how if they cannot get it totally right expect a third party to do it correctly?

Next think about modularity and openness. Do you want to be totally locked into one platform with no option to ever change? A Hasselblad 553elx/d could have been used since the first Leaf DCB and still used today with the latest and greatest digital back out there. Come one look at the chatter about Contax. It may not be made anymore, but they still work and are solid. It is crazy how I hear people going backward in technology on their camera platform, but are buying the latest digital; back.

Another question that comes to mind is why it costs more for you to purchase a CF39 and H2 system, than it does to purchase the same hardware that is a closed system from the same manufacture. Oh,but wait there is more.....You get a FREE lens of your choice(not verifed, saw post above) if you purchase the 'closed' or 'integrated' system? So look at Hasselblads prices of a back with a one year warranty that is not integrated into their camera system, the prices are right up there with Phase!

So why are they so interested in selling the integrated system at what probably is a lose? Do they not have confidence in their digital back on its own? Can they only make it look good if they do software magic themselves?

Anyway sorry if this was long but it gets frustrating seeing people go through all of this, when if upfront they contact a reputable reseller (there have been a few mentioned here) and engage them in open conversations about this, you can most likely get additional info. These guys have dealt with a broad range of users, and most likely have answered the questions you are asking many times.
Also try it out for yourself, there is not one system that will fit all needs.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 07:02:11 PM by digitalguy » Logged
RicAgu
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2007, 07:16:43 PM »
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http://www.hasselbladusa.com/promotions/h3d-bundle.aspx

Link to the hasselblad promo Bundle.  Not a pulled out of my ass statement.  There is a promo with a free lens, PLUS the 28mm lens!

I agree that Phase is the benchmark in software and when processing your files you should use Capture Shop, FlexColor, Leaf or Phase.  But Flexcolor is getting there slowly but surely and works rock solid now. They just have to simplify the UI in the software.

If I were going to buy something new I would only talk to the two companies in Atlanta or maybe Samy's in LA.

In Atlanta one guy sells Hassy & Leaf and the other guy sells Phase.  I can't keep the names straight but I know Chris Lawry is the Phase dealer and has been a pleasure to deal with.  The guy is returning emails and calls at 10pm and frequents these boards.  That is support!

As everyone here says, TEST IT YOURSELF!  Fly to Atlanta catch a nice Gosple Brunch on Sunday, enjoy the Southern cooking and make a choice.

Best of luck!
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pss
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2007, 07:30:02 PM »
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http://www.hasselbladusa.com/promotions/h3d-bundle.aspx

Link to the hasselblad promo Bundle.  Not a pulled out of my ass statement.  There is a promo with a free lens, PLUS the 28mm lens!

I agree that Phase is the benchmark in software and when processing your files you should use Capture Shop, FlexColor, Leaf or Phase.  But Flexcolor is getting there slowly but surely and works rock solid now. They just have to simplify the UI in the software.

If I were going to buy something new I would only talk to the two companies in Atlanta or maybe Samy's in LA.

In Atlanta one guy sells Hassy & Leaf and the other guy sells Phase.  I can't keep the names straight but I know Chris Lawry is the Phase dealer and has been a pleasure to deal with.  The guy is returning emails and calls at 10pm and frequents these boards.  That is support!

As everyone here says, TEST IT YOURSELF!  Fly to Atlanta catch a nice Gosple Brunch on Sunday, enjoy the Southern cooking and make a choice.

Best of luck!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107982\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

the promo says that when you buy the H3D AND the 28 you will get the case, a magazine and a free lens....so you have to buy the camera, back, lens PLUS the 28 to get a free lens.....
also it says that the deal is not valid in the US....correct  me if i am wrong...this has been discussed here before....
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 07:30:36 PM by pss » Logged

Mort54
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2007, 07:38:44 PM »
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correct  me if i am wrong...this has been discussed here before....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107983\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Paul. This is an old old thread that somebody posted to today, which brought it back to the front page. So yes, it has been discused before....in this very thread :-)

Regards,
Hans
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RicAgu
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« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2007, 07:56:39 PM »
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I was not aware that it was not available in the US.  A big mistake made by Hasselblad as is would help it gain a larger customer base.

Not sure why it is on the American site if it is not available in America.

Well, best of luck with what ever you do.
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hcubell
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« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2007, 09:00:32 PM »
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I was not aware that it was not available in the US.  A big mistake made by Hasselblad as is would help it gain a larger customer base.

Not sure why it is on the American site if it is not available in America.

Well, best of luck with what ever you do.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107990\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

When you translate the price of that bundle from UK Sterling into US$, that bundle is not a "deal" at all by our standards in the US: US$41,000. Much better deals are actually being offered in the US.
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