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Author Topic: 33 MPX Dalsa & 39 MPx Kodak Sensors  (Read 89127 times)
mattlap2
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« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2007, 09:22:09 PM »
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damn, there's a lot of weird opinions here.

I can think of dozens of landscape photographers who would jump at the chance of having a multi shot back on location, and I'm kind of surprised that Sinar thinks only people in the studio are concerned with Quality.
err... no.
there's plenty of us out there who want obsessive maximum quality, but work on location.
why do you think 4x5 field cameras exist? or  8x10 ones?
there was a device invented a while ago, I can't exactly remember, but I think, yes, it was to steady the camera on location, and called a "tri-pod."
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100765\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There can be no movement at all for a multi-shot camera.   You cannot use it for landscape at all because of the changing light quality ....the possible movement of anything (leaves move ..clouds move ...)    

In order to put the images together there needs to be less than a 10% difference in light for each of the exposures.   If the sun goes behind a cloud ..... You are toast.

I know food shooters that have to shoot some shots in single shot because of things like sauces that drip ..ice that moves ...etc.

Matt LaPointe
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Sinar Bron Imaging
(219) 670-9905
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thsinar
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« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2007, 10:02:35 PM »
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in addition to Matt's argument for the multishot use on location (movements are everywhere), I just want to add that there is the possibility to shoot multishot outside: just take a powerbook with you and shoot tethered,and on a stable tripod

Sinar does certainly not think that only studio photographers do need quality: far from us this idea. Our first concern is to provide quality files in each situation.

I hope this clarifies,
Thierry

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There can be no movement at all for a multi-shot camera.   You cannot use it for landscape at all because of the changing light quality ....the possible movement of anything (leaves move ..clouds move ...)   

In order to put the images together there needs to be less than a 10% difference in light for each of the exposures.   If the sun goes behind a cloud ..... You are toast.

I know food shooters that have to shoot some shots in single shot because of things like sauces that drip ..ice that moves ...etc.

Matt LaPointe
National Sales Support Specialist
Sinar Bron Imaging
(219) 670-9905
mlapointe@sinarbron.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 02:25:22 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2007, 10:05:50 PM »
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So you're stating the eVolution75 will be 1/4/16-shot.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100741\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


for the moment the eVolution is single and 4-shot: we are seriously thinking about (or not) offering the 16 shot as well. Technically it is not more difficult since the piezo plate is already there.

more when it has been decided to implement or not. Your suggestions are of course very welcome.

Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2007, 04:52:39 AM »
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for the moment the eVolution is single and 4-shot: we are seriously thinking about (or not) offering the 16 shot as well. Technically it is not more difficult since the piezo plate is already there.

more when it has been decided to implement or not. Your suggestions are of course very welcome.

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100782\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

if the piezo is there..... i will insist very much to implement the 16shot mode, after my experience in my quilt shooting. its so great to shoot 16 shot...
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rainer viertlböck
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Dustbak
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« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2007, 05:21:01 AM »
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if the piezo is there..... i will insist very much to implement the 16shot mode, after my experience in my quilt shooting. its so great to shoot 16 shot...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100822\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Same here. When you can do 4-shot in most cases you can do the 16-shot as well. I seriously doubt whether you can make a (good) shot outside with multishot, tethered to a laptop or not.

I sometimes make exposure bracketed shots to create HDR files, even on a very sturdy tripod on a day it appears the wind has gone I have great difficulties generating exactly the same files (to be able to generate proper HDR files).

I believe the idea of not putting a screen in a multi-shot back (keeping it lean and also cutting into manufacturing costs) is sound and wise.

I would love to hear from people that did make succesful multi-shot files outdoors!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 06:31:40 AM by Dustbak » Logged
David WM
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« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2007, 06:52:42 AM »
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I can think of dozens of landscape photographers who would jump at the chance of having a multi shot back on location....    ...there was a device invented a while ago, I can't exactly remember, but I think, yes, it was to steady the camera on location, and called a "tri-pod."
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100765\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The landscape needs to be still as well. So long as you can get things like leaves, clouds, water to hold for a half a minute you'll be right.  
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pprdigital
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« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2007, 07:39:46 AM »
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The landscape needs to be still as well. So long as you can get things like leaves, clouds, water to hold for a half a minute you'll be right. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100837\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually, more like 5 to 8 seconds, depending on the light. Stephen Johnson is well known for producing landscape work with a BetterLight Scanning back. Now there's a challenge!

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2007, 07:53:24 AM »
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Actually, more like 5 to 8 seconds, depending on the light. Stephen Johnson is well known for producing landscape work with a BetterLight Scanning back. Now there's a challenge!

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100843\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I have seen work from people that do landscape with scanningbacks, especially images with repeating motion patterns (like waves) turn out very very beautiful, surreal actually. However as far as I am aware a scanning back doesn't need to align multiple exposures into 1 correct image. This makes a scanning back even a better option to use outdoors than a multi-shot back.

Correct me if I am wrong here though.
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thsinar
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« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2007, 07:56:55 AM »
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I have seen work from people that do landscape with scanningbacks, especially images with repeating motion patterns (like waves) turn out very very beautiful, surreal actually. However as far as I am aware a scanning back doesn't need to align multiple exposures into 1 correct image. This makes a scanning back even a better option to use outdoors than a multi-shot back.

Correct me if I am wrong here though.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100844\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dustbak,

not exactly: a scan back does tausends of small steps along the whole surface, scaning line by line the whole image surface: in fact, each of this single step is one exposure.

Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Dustbak
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« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2007, 08:01:17 AM »
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Dustbak,

not exactly: a scan back does tausends of small steps along the whole surface, scaning line by line the whole image surface: in fact, each of this single step is one exposure.

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100845\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


That is true but isn't each line fixed/done after one pass? Meaning that even if there are movements in the landscape this will only affect the next row that will be scanned. A scanning back doesn't have to scan 4 times to get to the uninterpolated colors or 16 to get the added resolution as well. So yes it does expose in many different steps but each exposure is a single one leaving less room for colors being wrong, etc..

What I understand from multishot backs is that they will generated the final image after having made the 4 (or 16) shots. This would impose a bigger problem when the images are not perfectly aligned.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 08:07:03 AM by Dustbak » Logged
thsinar
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« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2007, 08:15:33 AM »
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That is true but isn't each line fixed/done after one pass? Meaning that even if there are movements in the landscape this will only affect the next row that will be scanned.

What I understand from multishot backs is that they will generated the final image after having made the 4 (or 16) shots. This would impose a bigger problem when the images are not perfectly aligned.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100846\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

yes, absolutely, but each line will/can therefore be moved, from one step to the next, producing weird results because not "corresponding" to or being in line with the preceeding lines. With a multishot the result when moving is a bit different, the 3 RGB colors in their whole do not align exacly anymore in the whole image (in the places it moves). The result/effect is certainly different, but both scaning and multishot need absolutely still subjects.

Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Dustbak
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« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2007, 08:20:53 AM »
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yes, absolutely, but each line will/can therefore be moved, from one step to the next, producing weird results because not "corresponding" to or being in line with the preceeding lines. With a multishot the result when moving is a bit different, the 3 RGB colors in their whole do not align exacly anymore in the whole image (in the places it moves). The result/effect is certainly different, but both scaning and multishot need absolutely still subjects.

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100849\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Allright than we agree on this.

I believe the difference is that with the scanning back the results can be very pleasing. I have seen images of coastal lines where the waves became truly magnificently surreal as well as other moving stuff like trees in the wind. Naturally this will not apply for everything. I will try to find the images I am talking about and post the URL as soon as I did.

I believe the results of movement for multi-shots will be quite horrific when movement comes into play unless you are in for colors going completely insane and blur in unsuspected places.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 08:28:37 AM by Dustbak » Logged
thsinar
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« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2007, 08:27:56 AM »
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Allright than we agree on this.

I believe the difference is that with the scanning back the results can be very pleasing. I have seen images of coastal lines where the waves became truly magnificently surreal as well as other moving stuff like trees in the wind. Naturally this will not apply for everything. I will try to find the images I am talking about and post the URL as soon as I did.

I believe the results of movement for multi-shots will be quite horrific when movement comes into play unless you are in for colors going completely insane and blur in unsuspected places.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100852\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Right!

Would be interested to see such effects on waves, although I have tried it out during the times of the Dicomed scanback in the Swiss montains, with clouds (and - 10ish).

Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2007, 08:35:46 AM »
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Allright than we agree on this.

I believe the difference is that with the scanning back the results can be very pleasing. I have seen images of coastal lines where the waves became truly magnificently surreal as well as other moving stuff like trees in the wind. Naturally this will not apply for everything. I will try to find the images I am talking about and post the URL as soon as I did.

I believe the results of movement for multi-shots will be quite horrific when movement comes into play unless you are in for colors going completely insane and blur in unsuspected places.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100852\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Just for the record - I was not advocating multi-shot or scanning backs as the ideal landscape solution, of course....

Single shots are the obvious preference in that environment.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
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Steve Hendrix
thsinar
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« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2007, 08:39:07 AM »
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Just for the record - I was not advocating multi-shot or scanning backs as the ideal landscape solution, of course....

Single shots are the obvious preference in that environment.

Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100854\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Yes, me neither!

Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
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« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2007, 08:49:29 AM »
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Right!

Would be interested to see such effects on waves, although I have tried it out during the times of the Dicomed scanback in the Swiss montains, with clouds (and - 10ish).

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100853\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


~humbug... just wading through tons of URL's to get to these images but no luck sofar. I will continue to look if anybody else knows what I am talking about (this does sound kind of silly) please don't hesitate to help out.

Otherwise I might put it on my to test list

Naturally we did not take that as an advice Steve. Single shot is a lot less hassle but scanning (maybe multi as well though I really doubt that) might give you a lot of fun and unsuspected results (some even really nice).

I still would like to have multi shot for in my studio but than again I invest like crazy but for some reason my wishlist appears to be growing only
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 09:38:23 AM by Dustbak » Logged
andybuk99
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« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2007, 09:18:13 AM »
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If you shoot a single shot and a multishot you could piece them together and if there are any movements e.g around a few leaves etc you could leave them.
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pss
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« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2007, 09:22:09 AM »
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If you shoot a single shot and a multishot you could piece them together and if there are any movements e.g around a few leaves etc you could leave them.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100862\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
think of the multishot images like of the layers in a negative...or cmyk printing plates...if they don't line up....not pretty
a scanning back does just that it scans the image top to bottom and movement will simply be blurred, like a long exposure....
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rainer_v
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« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2007, 11:14:01 AM »
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think of the multishot images like of the layers in a negative...or cmyk printing plates...if they don't line up....not pretty
a scanning back does just that it scans the image top to bottom and movement will simply be blurred, like a long exposure....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100864\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
the effect of movement or ( even little ) variations of lumince result in a chessboard-like pattern, which is not very pleasing. a scanback expose line after line so a slight change in exposure ad example has not a dramatic impact on the image, except that it becomes a little bit darker at the bottom than at the top or the opposite,- but its still a coherent image. not so the 16shot cause the shots are added on a pixel per pixel pattern.
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rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
munich / germany

www.tangential.de
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