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Author Topic: Talked to Sinar dealer today  (Read 20474 times)
samuel_js
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« on: February 15, 2007, 04:35:45 PM »
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Hi all,
I talked to my Sinar dealer here in Sweden today. We've been in contact for a couple of weeks.
I explained my situation. I'm using a Hasselblad H1 and a Rollei 6008 Professional scanning film with an Imacon. I sold my 1Ds because I thing the quality is just not comparable to medium format (just my opinion and what my eyes see   ). My work is just with film now. So I'm trying to figure out the best way make the transition. I don't work as a full time professional like o lot of you so for me there's no rush into it. I'm starting my own bussiness and I'm just seeing the possibilities. I must say that their support has been excellent. They've treated me with great respect, knowing me as a very serious amateur, which I think is a very positive thing  ...

In my way into digital medium format the options fot me could be:
 - Stay as I am now, wait until the Hy6 comes out and buy it just with the film back until I know if I like the design etc.. Then buy the DB.
- Buy a Rollei 6008AF and trade in H1 and 6008 and then get the Hy6. They don't now the price of the hy6 alone, so they don't know how much I need to pay for the 6008AF. Of course I can't pay for the 6008AF and then upgrade to an UNKNOWN price camera.
- Buy a Emotion 22 that will also work perfectly with my H1 (he could't tell me the price alone at that moment), the wait until the Hy6 comes and trade in my H1 and my Rollei.

Facts:
- The HY6 with DB will be competing with Hasselblad HD. Also, in the same price category.
- The HY6 will be a closed system, just working with their own backs. The software in the HY6 is designed by Sinar so they won't work with other DB.

The will call me next week to talk about prices so we'll see, but at this moment they don't seem to have a marketing plan for the HY6. I wanted to know the best way into the HY6 and I was recommended to buy a emotion 22 and wait!!  

Well. I hope this will be useful for someone out there.


Thank's  

BR
Samuel
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 06:27:28 PM by samuel_js » Logged
rethmeier
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2007, 05:04:43 PM »
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Regarding the eMotion Sinar backs:
There are upgrades on the way!
The eMotion 54 LV and the new eMotion 75 LV.
What's new? These 2 new eMotion backs will first have Live Video capability, but not only. They are fitted with new internal electronic hardware improving quality and high ISO.
(Quoted from thsinar)
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Willem Rethmeier
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samuel_js
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2007, 05:19:02 PM »
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Quote
Regarding the eMotion Sinar backs:
There are upgrades on the way!
The eMotion 54 LV and the new eMotion 75 LV.
What's new? These 2 new eMotion backs will first have Live Video capability, but not only. They are fitted with new internal electronic hardware improving quality and high ISO.
(Quoted from thsinar)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101126\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank's for the info. That's good to know. They didn't say anything about that...

*I forgot to write about my option nr.4: Just choose Hasselblad instead.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 05:19:30 PM by samuel_js » Logged
Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2007, 09:45:14 PM »
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- The HY6 will be a closed system, just working with their own backs. The software in the HY6 is designed by Sinar so they won't work with other DB.

I still haven't seen an official statement to back this up. Until now, the variants have been described as 'rebadged' which implies that they are functionally identical, in hardware terms at least. Perhaps this refers to firmware, which could be changed in any case?

Imagine that you have a Sinar Hy6 or Leaf AFi and back, and the camera fails on location. It would be comforting to know that any rental camera from either Sinar or Leaf could be added to the system. That increases your safety net, so it's better for the system as a whole.

If this is true then the functionality of the Rollei variant is also a mystery. Which digital back will this variant take? This variant is for the Japan, China and Russia market, as per thsinar's earlier thread: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/lofive...php/t14503.html

Finally, there have been official statements describing the Hy6 as an 'open' system, which contradicts this rumour of product-tying.

In short, I will wait for an official statement.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 09:50:14 PM by foto-z » Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
samuel_js
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2007, 02:36:35 AM »
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I still haven't seen an official statement to back this up. Until now, the variants have been described as 'rebadged' which implies that they are functionally identical, in hardware terms at least. Perhaps this refers to firmware, which could be changed in any case?

Imagine that you have a Sinar Hy6 or Leaf AFi and back, and the camera fails on location. It would be comforting to know that any rental camera from either Sinar or Leaf could be added to the system. That increases your safety net, so it's better for the system as a whole.

If this is true then the functionality of the Rollei variant is also a mystery. Which digital back will this variant take? This variant is for the Japan, China and Russia market, as per thsinar's earlier thread: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/lofive...php/t14503.html

Finally, there have been official statements describing the Hy6 as an 'open' system, which contradicts this rumour of product-tying.

In short, I will wait for an official statement.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101160\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, I agree with you Graham. I find everything very confusing. I'm very tempted by this new HY6, but the dealers doesn't seem to know exactly what buying one implies.
I've heard that it would be an open system. But then differrent people and dealers says that it will be a closed one. I supose they havent't  decided it yet.
Then thet said price will be side by side with Hasselblad, so I supose they are trying to close Phase One. From that point of view, I understand the system will be closed.

Samuel
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2007, 04:06:54 AM »
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There are upgrades on the way!
The eMotion 54 LV and the new eMotion 75 LV
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101126\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Is there an upgrade path from my E22 - my main interest will be better ISO

Do you think I could send it back to the factory for upgrade

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2007, 05:25:50 AM »
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Is there an upgrade path from my E22 - my main interest will be better ISO

Do you think I could send it back to the factory for upgrade

SMM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101184\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


hi Sam,

yes, it will be possible to upgrade by sending the back to the factory. Prices will be communicated and available through your Sinar distributor in about a month.

Best regards,
Thierry
« Last Edit: February 16, 2007, 05:32:32 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2007, 05:37:22 AM »
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I still haven't seen an official statement to back this up. Until now, the variants have been described as 'rebadged' which implies that they are functionally identical, in hardware terms at least. Perhaps this refers to firmware, which could be changed in any case?

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101160\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


As said and explained already in earlier posts: the Sinar Hy6 and the AFi will both accept Sinarbacks and Leaf backs. We are not planing, neither now nor in the future to have adapters for any other existing digital back.

As for prices and other commercial issues: these will be communicated through our official distributors very shortly.

Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2007, 06:30:03 AM »
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Thierry,
Please email me some screenshots of eXposure in action, so that I may seriously consider acquiring Sinar digital backs.
Billy
bjim at mac dot com
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Guillermo
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2007, 09:18:51 AM »
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We are not planing, neither now nor in the future to have adapters for any other existing digital back.

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101192\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
we know..that does not mean that 5 other companies make those adapters...
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samuel_js
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2007, 12:39:06 PM »
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we know..that does not mean that 5 other companies make those adapters...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101212\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, but if Sinar do not provide the camera software code to those companies, the backs won't work.
It's the same as Hasselblad: Everybody could make an adapter to use an Emotion with a HD3 but the camera must recognize the back, and that's software.
Don't you think?  
« Last Edit: February 16, 2007, 12:39:44 PM by samuel_js » Logged
pss
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2007, 01:01:48 PM »
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Yes, but if Sinar do not provide the camera software code to those companies, the backs won't work.
It's the same as Hasselblad: Everybody could make an adapter to use an Emotion with a HD3 but the camera must recognize the back, and that's software.
Don't you think? 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101245\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i am not a programmer, but i think you are overestimating how sophisticated the connections are....as long as the camera triggers the back, all is good and that is a very simple connection....as far as transfer of exif data and such....if someone really looks into it, it can't be too hard to figure it out...
for me the only reason the back should communicate with the camera is to fire it without an extra cable (this is no problem as long as the camera provides connectors (like the RZIID)) and it is nice to change the iso on the back or body and the other knows about it....
as far as exif data being transferred: the Hy6 will work with 30 year old lenses...don't expect to get the f-stop or focal length with your file....

as far as hasselblad goes: is there a reason why the emotion (or leaf or phase) backs with  the H mount won't work on the H3? is it a different mount? i am not sure about this, but as far as i know, they do work, you just don't get the advantages of the H3 compared to the H1 or H2 (lens correction, battery powers camera and back,...)....so there is no reason to buy a H3 unless you buy a hass back with it....
my understanding is that the H3 behaves like a H2 if you put a different brand back on it....maybe i am wrong?
to put it in other words: if i bought an H3 (back and body) i can't use that back on my old H2 (with limited functionality)? that would make it worse then i thought it was!!!!!

either way this will not be the case with the Hy6...if you buy a Hy6 today, you get a 6008 with emotion and when the Hy6 actually ships, you can choose to keep the 6008 as a back-up (with a nice discount)...which implies that the back will work on both cameras (with adapters and probably some limited communications with the 6008)....
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2007, 01:33:08 PM »
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I don't care so much whether I can use another back on the Hy6/Afi but whether I can use the Hy6/Afi back on LF cameras or other specific equipment.

I would be very happy with a Hy6/AFi to V-Mount adapter to be able to use the back on my other machines.

I don't care using a sync cord, I use one right now on most machines as well. I don't care about anything but taking the image and have left one sync to fire a strobe or commander.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2007, 01:35:38 PM by Dustbak » Logged
Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2007, 01:45:41 PM »
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I would be very happy with a Hy6/AFi to V-Mount adapter to be able to use the back on my other machines. That would make a decision a lot easier.

That is not likely with the Leaf and their one-mount system, but it is certain to be the case with the Sinarback. The adaptable back is one of the great features of the eMotion series. When the Hy6 is released, Sinar will also release the Hy6 adapter for the emotion backs but of course the DB will continue to work on your Hass, Mamiya, Contax, Rollei, etc.
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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2007, 12:40:32 PM »
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I don't care so much whether I can use another back on the Hy6/Afi but whether I can use the Hy6/Afi back on LF cameras or other specific equipment.

I would be very happy with a Hy6/AFi to V-Mount adapter to be able to use the back on my other machines.

I don't care using a sync cord, I use one right now on most machines as well. I don't care about anything but taking the image and have left one sync to fire a strobe or commander.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101258\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i don't think it will work that way....the Afi will be a closed system...it will have its own mount (as all leaf and phase backs do)....
the sinar backs don't have specific mounts, they use adapters....so all you have to do is get the adapter you want....
i wonder if the sinar Hy6 will ship with a special mount (without adapter)....that would make that a closed camera as well....
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yaya
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2007, 12:44:52 PM »
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The Leaf AFi backs will work on LF cameras and possibly on RZ as well, just like the current AFD/ H/ V/ Ctx backs.

Yair
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josayeruk
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2007, 02:04:28 PM »
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i am not a programmer, but i think you are overestimating how sophisticated the connections are....as long as the camera triggers the back, all is good and that is a very simple connection....as far as transfer of exif data and such....if someone really looks into it, it can't be too hard to figure it out...
for me the only reason the back should communicate with the camera is to fire it without an extra cable (this is no problem as long as the camera provides connectors (like the RZIID)) and it is nice to change the iso on the back or body and the other knows about it....
as far as exif data being transferred: the Hy6 will work with 30 year old lenses...don't expect to get the f-stop or focal length with your file....

as far as hasselblad goes: is there a reason why the emotion (or leaf or phase) backs with  the H mount won't work on the H3? is it a different mount? i am not sure about this, but as far as i know, they do work, you just don't get the advantages of the H3 compared to the H1 or H2 (lens correction, battery powers camera and back,...)....so there is no reason to buy a H3 unless you buy a hass back with it....
my understanding is that the H3 behaves like a H2 if you put a different brand back on it....maybe i am wrong?
to put it in other words: if i bought an H3 (back and body) i can't use that back on my old H2 (with limited functionality)? that would make it worse then i thought it was!!!!!

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101249\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not quite PSS!

I think you are under the impression that there is an H3 camera.  There isn't!

There is an H2 but the H3 only exists in the H3D form - sold as an integrated unit.  I have an H2D which is a predecessor to this.

You cannot put any other back on the the H3D... if you took the digital back off that is.

If you want to use Phase, Leaf etc then you would simply buy an H2 - losing the benefits of the H3D platform etc etc...  similar to what you said above.

Jo S. x
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2007, 02:45:11 PM »
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Not quite PSS!

I think you are under the impression that there is an H3 camera.  There isn't!

There is an H2 but the H3 only exists in the H3D form - sold as an integrated unit.  I have an H2D which is a predecessor to this.

You cannot put any other back on the the H3D... if you took the digital back off that is.

If you want to use Phase, Leaf etc then you would simply buy an H2 - losing the benefits of the H3D platform etc etc...  similar to what you said above.

Jo S. x
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101406\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
so if i have complete H2 system (back-up body, etc...) and i want to upgrade to a H3D, i have to get rid of all my H2s? and i can't get a back-up body? wow....i am speechless....
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josayeruk
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2007, 03:09:10 PM »
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so if i have complete H2 system (back-up body, etc...) and i want to upgrade to a H3D, i have to get rid of all my H2s? and i can't get a back-up body? wow....i am speechless....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101414\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Meeeow!  Saucer of milk, table 9!

There has been some discussion about this on the Flexframe user group (Hasselblad and Imacon) and it looks like backup bodies will be availble to owners of H3D cameras.

All your H2's???

I think most of us probably only stretch to one medium format body, two max?  Plus your dealer would be a hard man if he didn't accomodate those bodies in a new deal.

...Or is that what Phase One dealers are like.    

Joking... Joking....!!!

Jo S x
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2007, 03:14:45 PM »
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Meeeow!  Saucer of milk, table 9!

There has been some discussion about this on the Flexframe user group (Hasselblad and Imacon) and it looks like backup bodies will be availble to owners of H3D cameras.

All your H2's???

I think most of us probably only stretch to one medium format body, two max?  Plus your dealer would be a hard man if he didn't accomodate those bodies in a new deal.

...Or is that what Phase One dealers are like.   

Joking... Joking....!!!

Jo S x
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101417\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

with hasselblads record one would think you need at least 3 bodies (one will be at the shop at all times).....
but anyway.....now i know why rental houses will simply not pick up the H3D....
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