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Author Topic: canon 1d mark III  (Read 28473 times)
gguida
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2007, 06:27:28 AM »
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Just noticed that the "multi controller" joystick wasn't used for AF point selection. What a shame, it's my favorite feature of the 5D and sorely missing on the 1D/1Ds. Selecting with the wheels is just too slow and awkward for wildlife.

For the previous message, a lot of sports shooting is actually done remotely and/or from very awkward angles. With the wi-fi controller (and hoping that the other 200 cameras using the same system won't cause too much interference) you can see what you are taking and even adjust parameters on the fly. Somebody might even come up with a robotised tripod head to help with framing... Anyway, it doesn't cost anymore to have it, so why not..

I'll certainly get one to go with the long lenses and if the 1Ds3 is the same with a full frame sensor (whatever the resolution, 2 extra bits is already reason enough)  I'll get one of these as well.
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jani
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2007, 07:26:56 AM »
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The white paper.

Pages 31 & 35.
And where is this white paper? It's not readily available from www.usa.canon.com, at least.

Could you provide a link?
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Jan
gguida
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2007, 07:52:53 AM »
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For those who missed it, general information on the D3 is at:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/C...White_Paper.pdf

and

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos1dm3/

but see the rest of the RobGalbraith announcement as well, including the press release.
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madmanchan
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2007, 07:59:24 AM »
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The majority of Canon's market is PJs -- covering news and sporting events. If you've ever seen a news or sports press conference, you see PJs all the time holding cameras above their heads not looking thru the viewfinder so that they can get the shot without being blocked. Well, I think Live View is entirely appropriate here.

I'm really quite impressed with what they've done here in one package. Going up to 10 AND increasing the A/D to 14-bit AND up to 10 fps AND up to 30 RAWs per burst is pretty remarkable. And then there are all the little things, such as the fact that it's 1/2 pound lighter, bigger LCD, dust-cleaning system, etc.

People have wanted personal functions to be settable in the camera instead of via computer. Well Canon listened and did that too.

People have lambasted Canon for bad wide-angle lens performance esp. in corners. So Canon releases a new 16-35 f/2.8 II that is designed specifically to address this. Whether it actually does or not remains to be seen. But the effort is there to fix it.

Pretty cool.
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Tim Gray
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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2007, 08:27:07 AM »
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The majority of Canon's market is PJs -- covering news and sporting events. If you've ever seen a news or sports press conference, you see PJs all the time holding cameras above their heads not looking thru the viewfinder so that they can get the shot without being blocked. Well, I think Live View is entirely appropriate here.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102360\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I've just printed off the white paper, but it doesn't look like the LCD is articulated... so when they hold it over their heads and point back down, there's no way to see the preview regardless.
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david o
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2007, 09:20:12 AM »
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so when they hold it over their heads and point back down, there's no way to see the preview regardless.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102363\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I thought about that and again here's a point...
but don't get me wrong it could be usefull, but I ever shot car races (Rallies, F1) and I know that even with wide angle, so imagine with 300mm, there's no way to me that live preview is usable.
And I'm sure that the camera was tested during the superbowl and is there anybody noticed someone shooting from is chair...
but again nothing wrong to have it. It wont hurt for sure.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 09:20:56 AM by david olivier » Logged
jorgedelfino
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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2007, 10:13:09 AM »
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Nice, larger display! But I don't see a 1ds MKIII with a higher pixel count, canon went for bigger pixels on the new camera, will that be the future trend?
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madmanchan
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« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2007, 11:16:35 AM »
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Well these are better pixels. 14-bit A-to-D for smoother tones, less quantization problems in shadows, and a more efficient microlens array for better light-gathering efficiency. Translation: cleaner images with less noise, and the option of higher ISO. I think that's much preferable to just adding pixels without the pixels themselves getting any better.
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rdonson
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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2007, 11:41:26 AM »
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if the target of that is sport photographer (with 10 fps how could it be different) I don't see the point to have live preview.
How that could work with a 300/2.8 followong is subject? can you picture the guy with that lens holding his camera to see what's goin' on on the display... Sounds weard to me.
But I must missed something here.
Anyhow it's not the product I'm looking for, just a thought about that feature.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102346\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I suspect the main target is sports, pj, wedding, event, etc.  I also suspect that they listened to a bunch of working pros who might do one of those primarily *and* a smaller amount of studio work and didn't want to buy a 1Ds...  hence the addition of this feature.  Pure speculation on my part though.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
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BJL
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« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2007, 11:58:56 AM »
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Canon went for bigger pixels on the new camera
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102377\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Canon went for closer pixel spacing than on the model it replaces (1DMkIIN), and the same as on the 1Ds MkII, but with better high ISO performance than either of those previous models, thanks to technological improvements in micro-lenses and such.

The trend continues to be towards higher resolution through lower pixel spacing, without the IQ sacrifices that people fear when they ignore the room for technological improvement at any given pixel spacing.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 11:59:16 AM by BJL » Logged
ARD
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« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2007, 12:21:02 PM »
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Small Review

You could watch TV on the LCD lol
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BJL
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« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2007, 12:34:16 PM »
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As far as I know, the EOS-1 D models sell considerably better than the EOS-1Ds ones, partly because of Canon;s very important PJ/sports user base, but probably also because they are far less expensive. And Canon has again indicated in the 1DMkIII white paper that this cost differential is likely to persist, saying that the 1DMkIII sensor can be fabricated in "one pass" while "FF" sized ones cannot.

For this reason alone, they are of interest for other types of photography besides action. So following Olympus with Live View (even using the same name!) should be great for situations like manual focus with the camera on a tripod.

Also, there is the prospect of remote operation of a camera, say located in the ceiling of an arena, with wired or wireless VF feed to a controlling computer. Pre-focus needed though; like focusing on the rim and shooting the dunk at 10fps.
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jani
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« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2007, 12:41:33 PM »
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For this reason alone, they are of interest for other types of photography besides action. So following Olympus with Live View (even using the same name!) should be great for situations like manual focus with the camera on a tripod.
Yes, I can imagine that it would be great for not only high-quality reproductions, but also for micro/macro work, which can sometimes be a pain with a regular viewfinder.
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Jan
bjanes
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« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2007, 12:57:56 PM »
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Live LCD preview (also available on the computer when tethered), 3-inch LCD, integrated sensor cleaning, an additional stop's worth of ISO, and sRAW when lower-resolution images are OK but RAW flexibility is desired, Li-ion battery instead of NiMH, and 14-bit RAW. I'd say overall a nice set of new features.

Given the 2:1 pixel ratio between the 1Ds-II and 1D-II, a 20MP+ pixel count for the 1Ds-III is quite plausible.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102333\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The sRAW feature (which sounds like 4:1 hardware pixel binning) would be very useful with a 20 or 24 MP sensor, giving 5-6MP output, which is plenty for many applications. It will be interesting to see the signal to noise ratio in this mode.

Bill
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kaelaria
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« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2007, 01:24:41 PM »
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WOW!  I'm not the target consumer, but the laundry list of significant features/improvements is awesome!  There is some really high-end stuff in there that will surely transfer/morph to the rest of the line as well!  NICE!!!
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bjanes
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« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2007, 02:32:28 PM »
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Canon went for closer pixel spacing than on the model it replaces (1DMkIIN), and the same as on the 1Ds MkII, but with better high ISO performance than either of those previous models, thanks to technological improvements in micro-lenses and such.

The trend continues to be towards higher resolution through lower pixel spacing, without the IQ sacrifices that people fear when they ignore the room for technological improvement at any given pixel spacing.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It is also worthwhile to note that Canon increases the MP count only when they can do so without compromising the low noise characteristics for which they are known. As I am sure you know, Moore's law applies only partially to CMOS sensor scaling as described in a Stanford article by Wandell et al [a href=\"http://white.stanford.edu/~brian/papers/ise/CMOSRoadmap-2005-SPIE.pdf]Moore meets Planck and Sommerfeld[/url]. Planck has to do with quantum efficiency and Sommerfled with diffraction. In their 1D M3 white paper, Canon reports that they kept the photo-sensitive area of the pixels about the same, but shrank the transistor size and improved the microlenses.

I don't know what the fill factor of the new Canon sensor is, but with CMOS technology a considerable amount of space is taken up by the on chip processing transistors, leaving less room for the photosensitive elements. As Wandel points out scaling can be used to decrease the pixel size and improve spatial resolution or to shrink the transistor size and increase the photosensitive area. As pixel size decreases, the f/ratio of the microlenses becomes limited.

Although technology is wonderful, limits imposed by the laws of physics are being reached.

Bill
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Tim Gray
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« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2007, 03:21:08 PM »
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So the second pass to build the sensor translates to roughly $4 or $5K retail?  They've got the horesepower to do 10mpx at 10 fps with a pair of chips, surely no incremental cost to handle 22 mpx at 4 fps?  Having said that I realize it's the market that determines the price they're able to command.

As for live preview, I agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense for sports/PJ (other than the remote capture) I'd guess they're "prototyping" it for the 1ds3 release.
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BJL
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« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2007, 04:04:27 PM »
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So the second pass to build the sensor translates to roughly $4 or $5K retail?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102443\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
About $3K or more it seems: that was the price gap from 1DMkII to the 1Ds or 1DsMkII, the 1DMkIII will cost about the same as the 1DsMkII, and I predict that any 1DsMkIII will continue to cost about as much as the first two 1Ds versions.
It is three passes for the 1DsMkII sensor according to Canon, and one cost factor is probably far more rejected sensors, when the passes do not line up well enough.

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live preview ... doesn't make a lot of sense for sports/PJ (other than the remote capture)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102443\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Firstly, isn't helping remote capture already worthwhile? Secondly, 1D's are often used for tasks other than sports/PJ, some of which can benefit from live preview at high magnification for manual focusing. Arguably, with resolution increasing beyond what film offered and VF's having lower magnification that in the manual focus era and lacking focusing aids, it is harder than ever to manual focus with sufficient accuracy through a DSLR's OVF. Supposedly the image in an SLR OVF has only about as much detail as a 2MP image.

But anyway, I agree in expecting Live View in many or all future Canon SLR's. The CMOS sensors have the inherent capability, so adding the feature should cost almost nothing.
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Ray
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« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2007, 05:07:40 PM »
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As pixel size decreases, the f/ratio of the microlenses becomes limited.

Although technology is wonderful, limits imposed by the laws of physics are being reached.

Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102434\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would imagine that some of the first applications of the 'superlens', constructed from metamaterials with a negative refractive index, will be for microlenses in imaging devices. Often when we think no further progress is possible because we've hit the barrier of the so-called laws of physics, some imaginative breakthrough turns up to circumvent that apparent obstacle.
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bjanes
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« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2007, 05:49:04 PM »
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I would imagine that some of the first applications of the 'superlens', constructed from metamaterials with a negative refractive index, will be for microlenses in imaging devices. Often when we think no further progress is possible because we've hit the barrier of the so-called laws of physics, some imaginative breakthrough turns up to circumvent that apparent obstacle.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=102475\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ray,

A little knowledge can be dangerous.  

Current superlenses consist mainly of wires and split-ring resonators (SRRs), which work for radio waves, but constructing a super lens at optical wave lenghts is difficult since not only must the index of refraction equal -1, but also requires that both ε (electrical permittivity) = -1 and (magnetic permeability) = -1. A lens that falls short of this ideal suffers from drastically degraded resolution. (THE QUEST FOR THE Superlens.,  By: Pendry, John B., Smith, David R., Scientific American, 00368733, Jul2006, Vol. 295, Issue 1).

If the object distance is very close to the image distance, these conditions can be relaxed, and a very thin layer of metal can act as a superlens, possibly useful for micro lithography in constructing semiconductor chips, but this wouldn't work for a camera lens.

We are a long way from a super lens for cameras, but perhaps someday such a lens can be constructed. I would not expect it before the next PMA show.

Bill
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