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Author Topic: Sinar P2 and digital backs  (Read 22436 times)
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2007, 03:15:21 AM »
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Personally I am not experienced with smaller view camera 69 style

But I think theyare all bound to lead to trouble with ultra wides when trying to keep the 'film' and lens plane perfectly parrallel

As I have said I am not that interested in tilting ultra wides only rise and fall

A rigid camera that does not offer tilt will be more rigid than any camera that offers tilt

I personally would not think that the OP needs to swap from thier P2 to another view camera

He needs to understand the limitations of all view cameras and use the very nice one he has now within its limitations

I think the upgrade to the P3 bearers would be a whorthwhile value because the smaller size will lead to greater precision as there is less leverage on the shorter bearers - basic engineering fact

Incedentally I still like the larger format view camera becuse you can make amazing stitched images with it and a SBA

T - no-one thinks sinar are no good - just the correct tool for which job - I would imagine a P3 offers simlar quality to many other small view camera

SMM
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« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2007, 06:34:05 AM »
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Yaya,

You should know me well enough for not and never letting things be said which are purposely said in a wrong way or with the wrong words.

I do not deny you the right to speak about other solutions or other ways to do, or other possibilities: this is absolutely approriate and right on this forum. But I shall deny and react each time when wrong things are claimed or when words are purposely misused to denigrate a product:

- "barely focusable"
- "more accuracy"
- "without having to take/send the camera to go through surgery"
- "and an expensive one that is"
- "the p2 doesn't offer the same level of rigidness"
- "they all choose to leave the P2 behind"
- "Many (most?) of these backs use ..." It really doesn't need the comment "(most?)"

Well, what should I say about your above comments? That they are right? That they are accurate and telling the truth? Certainly not.
Be right and neutral, and choose your words in an adequate way to avoid to mislead, that's all what I am asking for.

No, by "camp" I don't mean that, but I mean and speak about yourself. English is not my mother language, but I am fit enough to know what I am writing and you probably as well: why do you need to change the meaning and suggest different things? It is quite obvious that each time you can say something against Sinar you do it, not only with myself: should I post the links as well to remind you about all of it?

Well, I am neither in a special camp, but the one of the photography which I love, and I don't think you have found me speaking in a wrong way about another product: when I don't know I do not write. I do not even wish to speak about the negative sides of others or point them out: not my style.

I don't quite understand the meaning of posting the link of my post: everybody can read what I have written and informed by going a few posts higher in this tread. And what I have written is simply the way to use the p2 and what can be done/achieved with it: nowhere is there question of "surgery", "modifications", etc.. which you suggest are necessary to make it possible to work with the p2. And you are using the word "modifications" once again below! There is none such modifications to be done.

I am sorry, but I have said it clearly when I joined LLF, that the reason why I was joining is to inform ( as rightly as possible) and to help where I can, but also to put things right when presented the wrong way. I shall do so each time when I judge it necessary, as here.

I shall give it a rest as soon as wrong things are put rightly.

Thanks to understand my position.
Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
I hear you...by "camp" you mean those who dare using a back other than yours on your cameras?

I don't belong to any "camp" when it comes to cameras and I turst my experience for giving a solid and un-biased advice.

I have given my comments on the use of 3rd party backs on the P2 and as far as modifications go, these are YOUR words, not mine:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....ndpost&p=104217

I also don't think that the way this discussion progresses helps the OP in choosing his route, therefore I suggest that we both give it a rest.

 Yair
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« Last Edit: March 03, 2007, 09:02:50 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2007, 09:05:22 AM »
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Hello again:

I appreciate all the comments my initial question received.  I guess it got more argumentative than my question was supposed to but that's why we live in a free society... a few beers and all is forgotten until the next time.

I do have a question to the person who says the p2 is not "rigid" enough for using a 24-28 lens.
What do you mean by the term rigid?  My p2 camera locks up tightly when I want it to.  Are you saying that the bellows bag, whichever one you need to use with those lenses, forces the swings, tilts and standards apart even though they are locked?

If the above is the case, do you have any experience with the p3 relative to this problem you mentioned?  Based on your experience with other view cameras, do any others have similiar problems?  How do other view cameras handle the setting and firing of lenses like the 24-28 type? Do they all use lens mounting versions similiar to Sinar?

Now, some additional questions to the gentleman from Sinar:

I'm wondering about this Live Video focusing idea.  I was unable to get much information from your website on this.  Does the chip allow for video feeds under modeling light conditions or is this a "hot" light shooting environment?  Is it strong enough to allow stopping down of the lens and see an image? In researching previous forum messages, several pointed out using a ND filter  when using Live Video outside.  Sinar's answer to that problem was another attachment that must act like an automatic iris outside to use in place of ND filters; is that correct?  If correct, how does it mount and roughly what's it's cost?

Since I do a lot of productions, both still and video, outside the studio, I have some real concerns about video focusing in sunlight.  It's one thing to put an art director under a tent or looking through a cover on my laptop but it's quite another to have a photographer looking inside this  monitor shield and handling the knobs on a view camera at the same time.  Time is always a problem on shoots anymore, we have to get in, get it shot and get out.  I have some serious doubts believing this Live Video helps rather than hurts my shooting time concerns.

Thanks to all for taking time to answer,

Paul
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thsinar
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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2007, 10:07:19 AM »
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Dear Paul,

I just had my couple of beers, and am fine now!

The Live Video feature on Sinarbacks works that way: the CCD is used as a video chip and constantly activated as long as the live video feature is on. It can be used without ND filters and without Sinar's so-called LC-shutter (Liquid Christal shutter), but in this case the light needs to be dimmed down and the image produced is far from perfect. For a "perfect", clear and high-quality live video image, we recommend the use of the LC-shutter. This shutter closes a few times each second to avoid the light falling constantly on the CCD and saturating it, thus "smearing" the image and reducing its quality. Modelling lights used in a studio environment are exactly what is used to get the live image.

Yes, it is possible to stop down the lens and get a perfect image: the system used will compensate automatically the reduction of light and give you a clear image.

Further: the Captureshop software has some built-in features which allows you to control brightness and contrast of your live image, as well as a "loupe function" at 100% when focusing. This focusing help will tell you when the point is absolutely sharp by analyzing the contrast and indicating you the sharpness with a "number" (the higher the more sharp)  and a visual "bar" (the longer the more sharp). In other words, no need to actually check the point to be in focus with your eyes: you can as well check and make sure of the sharpness by focusing until the highest "number" or longest "bar" is reached.

Important remark and advice: since the live video feature keeps the CCD constantly activated, the sensor heats up, obviously. It is in this case necessary to perform a so-called Black Reference before the actual image capture, to eliminate the residual noise created by the heating. This makes sure to get a perfect and noise-free image (the same shoud actually be done for long exposure times). This process takes a few seconds, depending on the selected exposure time.

The LC-shutter is fixed in front of the lens by means of a lens adapter ring of the right diameter and which can be ordered separately. This shutter is then connected to a lens plug (for CMV, CAB and CPL lens on the p3 and f3) and connects directly through the cameras contacts built into the bellows, directly to the back and then to the computer.
The same LC-shutter can be used on a view camera (p, p2 or f2) with Copal Automatic Aperture shutter or with Lenses using Copal shutters.

Price of the LC-shutter: our enduser price in Switzerland is Euro 1'550.- Please note that this price can vary from one country to another.

I agree with your concerns concerning the use of the Live Video under daylight or sunny conditions. The quality of the video image produced with the LC-shutter is a high quality detailled image. However, outside and with sunny or bright light conditions it is as difficult to judge this image as it is for any normal image on the computer screen. To judge it and to focus might be very difficult or impossible without covering your monitor and protecting it from the light (the mentioned "Focusing Help" feature in Captureshop can help here). As you say it, it is helping and possible, but will probably cost you a bit longer time. The other solution in this case is to use the sliding adapter and adjust/focus on the groundglass.

Feel free to ask, should you have other questions.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Hello again:

Now, some additional questions to the gentleman from Sinar:

I'm wondering about this Live Video focusing idea.  I was unable to get much information from your website on this.  Does the chip allow for video feeds under modeling light conditions or is this a "hot" light shooting environment?  Is it strong enough to allow stopping down of the lens and see an image? In researching previous forum messages, several pointed out using a ND filter  when using Live Video outside.  Sinar's answer to that problem was another attachment that must act like an automatic iris outside to use in place of ND filters; is that correct?  If correct, how does it mount and roughly what's it's cost?

Since I do a lot of productions, both still and video, outside the studio, I have some real concerns about video focusing in sunlight.  It's one thing to put an art director under a tent or looking through a cover on my laptop but it's quite another to have a photographer looking inside this  monitor shield and handling the knobs on a view camera at the same time.  Time is always a problem on shoots anymore, we have to get in, get it shot and get out.  I have some serious doubts believing this Live Video helps rather than hurts my shooting time concerns.

Thanks to all for taking time to answer,

Paul
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« Last Edit: March 03, 2007, 10:10:22 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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yaya
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« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2007, 10:07:56 AM »
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Paul,

It seems that anything I point out in public on this forum is immediately taken as a bash against product X or Y, regardless of whether the points I bring make sense or not...

As many before have already stated, there is nothing like 1st hand experience, so I suggest that you ask your local Sinar dealer for a demonstration on YOUR P2 with WA lenses. This should give you a much better idea than anything we say here, with regards to rigidness/ accuracy/ viability of any add-ons etc.

As far as using recent LEAF backs on a P2, one can purchase a Graflok adapter through Leaf and use Live Video for composition and focusing. Live Video only works when tethered to a Mac and if used outdoors, we recommend using ND filters. Another option is buying a sliding back and using the GG for comp/ focus.

With both options I would not advise going wider than 47mm.

PM or email me if you would like me to help in arranging a Leaf demo for you.

Best regards

Yair
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thsinar
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« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2007, 10:24:33 AM »
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Yaya,

Not exactly ANYTHING is taken as a bash, ONLY when wrongly stated or misleading comments are made on a product which I know for using it. I believe you understand the difference.

I appreciate your knowledge and professionalism, like all here on LLF, but cannot accept such misguidances as above.

You might have your experience and opinion if something is better to do it in a way or another, that is highly respected, but can simply not use the words like in your posts above.

I am sorry if I insit, but it is important for me.

Best regards,
Thierry

 

Quote
It seems that anything I point out in public on this forum is immediately taken as a bash against product X or Y, regardless of whether the points I bring make sense or not...

Yair
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« Last Edit: March 03, 2007, 10:26:37 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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yaya
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« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2007, 10:58:47 AM »
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Thierry, we can argue all day here about who's got more experience with this camera or that back...you live in your world and I live in mine and I guess we are both right in our respective worlds.

The truth however (for Paul), will be in the pudding when he gets to try the various solutions on his camera. and nothing that you and I say here is going to affect his experience.

Yair
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2007, 12:48:51 PM »
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do have a question to the person who says the p2 is not "rigid" enough for using a 24-28 lens.
What do you mean by the term rigid?

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Say you are trying to just rise to photograph a building you want the front and rear standard both absolutely vertical

Lets say the front standard of the P2 is not at 90 degrees (vertical) but at 89.95 degrees

This will not show with 54 film but will make a visible difference with such a sensitive lens as a 24 or 28 when you blow up the smaller image to the same enlargement

This is not only true for the sinar but all 54 view cameras

Say (and I cant be bothered to do the maths) this might lead to a .5 mm misalignment with a 54 bearer but this same inaccuacy will only lead to say a 0.2 mm misalignment with the smaller P3  bearer due to the chip being nearer to the fulcrum of the lever (the tilt mechanisms rotational point)


I dont now about your P2 but mine is pretty beat up and a bit wobbly in most movements

Cameras like alpa DONT tilt so will not gain a sloppy tilt

The wider the lens the shorter focus throw (say a movement of 3mm might focus a 24 from 1m (a disater ) to infinity whereas a focus throw of 3mm on a 200mm might  move the focus from infinity to 100meters - not a disaster)

This leads to higher tolerances being required for shorter lenses  and for those two lenses mixed with the resolution of digital capture the tolerances are challenging to all camera platforms

But it is worth trying a nice tight serviced P3 - I may be wrong - as everyone says - go to a dealer and play very carefully

I dont think the P3 is a lot worse in this aspect than other similar designs - its just that the design is not appropriate to the function

SMM
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thsinar
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« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2007, 08:22:42 PM »
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Yaya, that is absolutely true and I agee with you!

I expect anybody who is ready to invest in digital to try the material out, before buying: your remark is not necessary, I guess. And it is also obvious that for some the p2 solution might be doing the job rightly and for some not at all: different opinions are all depending on the different individuals and their needs.

Once again: I have answered questions which have been asked to me, and I have answered to you, not because you are claiming that the p2 is not the right tool to go outside or because you have presented other solutions and in your eyes better ways for using short lenses, but for the reasons you exactly now. If you would have stick to this, without using words which have no place in an opinion from a Leaf rep, then I would not even have answered to you.

I did NOT claim that the p2 is the best and most convenient tool to shoot on location (and even said that it might NOT be so in one of my post) with short focal length lenses, simply that it is possible and informed rightly how this can be done, without "surgery", without "expensive" costs, without "modifications": one can make use of the existing Copal lens, or one can make use of the existing Copal Automatic Aperture shutter, one can make use of the p2 without a single surgery or modification and without "expensive" costs. Period.

It amazes me how you are distorting things and try to insinuate things which I did not even suggest, like here again. I truely expect not to be distorted in any way and continuously. As long as this is not the case I shall put it right.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry, we can argue all day here about who's got more experience with this camera or that back...you live in your world and I live in mine and I guess we are both right in our respective worlds.

The truth however (for Paul), will be in the pudding when he gets to try the various solutions on his camera. and nothing that you and I say here is going to affect his experience.

Yair
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2007, 02:21:20 AM »
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Thierry, I don't think we're getting anywhere here...

To bring us back on track and instead of just throwing stones back at me, maybe you can explain, with a technical drawing, how one can mount a brand new 24mm Digitar (set in a Copal 0 shutter) on a bog standard, 10 year old P2 (original bearers/ frames/ bag bellows/ lensboards) and focus it at infinity with a 36X48 or 37X49 chip.

If you could also attach some images taken with this configuration and part numbers/ prices of any necessary items that need to be added/ changed that would be very helpful.

I happen to have several prospects who shoot interiors and before buying a new camera they would first like to know if their P2 can be used.

You must understand that I am on your side (or rather on the end user side) and my advice to anyone buying a new digital back is first to try your existing camera and lenses, before shelling out for a complete new kit.
As I previously stated, the P2 is a fantastic camera for digital studio work with normal and long FL lenses. It will be of great help to know if/ how/ how much this camera can be used successfuly with WA lenses.

Many thanks for your input

Yair
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thsinar
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« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2007, 09:25:14 AM »
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Dear Yaya,

I'm always ready to help and prefer as well rather to speak about photography.

I have actually already answered your questions below, in this tread. Here my different posts on the subject:

Post N°4 (March 1st):

"Digital lenses from 28mm up to 210 mm can be used"

Post N° 9 (March 1st):

the 28mm is no problem, and can be used as well on any Sinar camera, p, p2 or 3.

The problem is the 24mm: I am pretty sure that this lens might have vignetting at infinity and with the 48x36mm (eMotions) and the 49x36.7mm sensors (SB 54 H and SB 54M).

I shall get advice from our product manager and confirm this as soon as possible.


Post N° 11 (March 02nd):

"The 24mm is from Schneider and can be mount on a Sinar lens mount for p2 with Schneider or Rollei shutter (possibly also in Copal mount on request): this 24mm lens has an angle of 100° with an image circle of 60mm and therefore it would very slightly be vigneting at infinity"

I thought I had explained that it is not possible with this lens of 24mm to focus at infinity without vigneting (Image Circle of 60mm vs a Diagonal of 61mm with the 22MPx33MPx from Dalsa (eMotion 22, eMotion 75 and eVolution 75) and 62 mm with the 33MPx from Kodak (SB 54 S, SB 54 H and SB 54 MC or M).

There was thereafter no question anymore about this lens in particular, and the discussion continued with the digital 28mm HR lens.

So in my opinion, it is clear that the 24mm cannot be used on a p2 without vigneting.

I hope this answers fully.

Thanks to you too and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
maybe you can explain, with a technical drawing, how one can mount a brand new 24mm Digitar (set in a Copal 0 shutter) on a bog standard, 10 year old P2 (original bearers/ frames/ bag bellows/ lensboards) and focus it at infinity with a 36X48 or 37X49 chip.

If you could also attach some images taken with this configuration and part numbers/ prices of any necessary items that need to be added/ changed that would be very helpful.

I happen to have several prospects who shoot interiors and before buying a new camera they would first like to know if their P2 can be used.

You must understand that I am on your side (or rather on the end user side) and my advice to anyone buying a new digital back is first to try your existing camera and lenses, before shelling out for a complete new kit.
As I previously stated, the P2 is a fantastic camera for digital studio work with normal and long FL lenses. It will be of great help to know if/ how/ how much this camera can be used successfuly with WA lenses.

Many thanks for your input

Yair
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2007, 09:51:47 AM »
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Quote
Say you are trying to just rise to photograph a building you want the front and rear standard both absolutely vertical

Lets say the front standard of the P2 is not at 90 degrees (vertical) but at 89.95 degrees

This will not show with 54 film but will make a visible difference with such a sensitive lens as a 24 or 28 when you blow up the smaller image to the same enlargement

This is not only true for the sinar but all 54 view cameras

Say (and I cant be bothered to do the maths) this might lead to a .5 mm misalignment with a 54 bearer but this same inaccuacy will only lead to say a 0.2 mm misalignment with the smaller P3  bearer due to the chip being nearer to the fulcrum of the lever (the tilt mechanisms rotational point)
I dont now about your P2 but mine is pretty beat up and a bit wobbly in most movements

Cameras like alpa DONT tilt so will not gain a sloppy tilt

The wider the lens the shorter focus throw (say a movement of 3mm might focus a 24 from 1m (a disater ) to infinity whereas a focus throw of 3mm on a 200mm might  move the focus from infinity to 100meters - not a disaster)

This leads to higher tolerances being required for shorter lenses  and for those two lenses mixed with the resolution of digital capture the tolerances are challenging to all camera platforms

But it is worth trying a nice tight serviced P3 - I may be wrong - as everyone says - go to a dealer and play very carefully

I dont think the P3 is a lot worse in this aspect than other similar designs - its just that the design is not appropriate to the function

SMM
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« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2007, 09:57:12 AM »
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Hello:

What you described made perfect sense and might help explain the "rigid" problem refered to by the other gentleman.  Even though I sent my P2 in for a tune-up and currently use the rear standard, modified for my 35 digital, for studio work, time makes all things loose.  The hair, on top of my head, loosens up all the time and falls out.

Thanks,

Paul
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yaya
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« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2007, 10:21:33 AM »
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Thanks Thierry,

I'm not sure about the 24mm...I've used it on both the ALPA XY and the Cambo WD-S aithout vignetting while focused to infinity (no shift).
My question is can this lens be focused to infinity on the P2? Vignetting or not? Without having to use a special shutter configuration?

I also don't understand the "can be mounted on request" thing...AFAIK, one can buy Schneider and/or Rodenstock lenses through various suppliers or directly from the manufacturers and can choose the shutter configuration (Copal/ Schneider/ Rollei) uppon ordering. I don't know the Copal as being "on request"...

Thanks again,

Yair

Quote
Dear Yaya,
I'm always ready to help and prefer as well rather to speak about photography.
I have actually already answered your questions below, in this tread. Here my different posts on the subject:
Post N°4 (March 1st):
"Digital lenses from 28mm up to 210 mm can be used"
Post N° 9 (March 1st):
the 28mm is no problem, and can be used as well on any Sinar camera, p, p2 or 3.
The problem is the 24mm: I am pretty sure that this lens might have vignetting at infinity and with the 48x36mm (eMotions) and the 49x36.7mm sensors (SB 54 H and SB 54M).
I shall get advice from our product manager and confirm this as soon as possible.

Post N° 11 (March 02nd):
"The 24mm is from Schneider and can be mount on a Sinar lens mount for p2 with Schneider or Rollei shutter (possibly also in Copal mount on request): this 24mm lens has an angle of 100° with an image circle of 60mm and therefore it would very slightly be vigneting at infinity"

I thought I had explained that it is not possible with this lens of 24mm to focus at infinity without vigneting (Image Circle of 60mm vs a Diagonal of 61mm with the 22MPx33MPx from Dalsa (eMotion 22, eMotion 75 and eVolution 75) and 62 mm with the 33MPx from Kodak (SB 54 S, SB 54 H and SB 54 MC or M).

There was thereafter no question anymore about this lens in particular, and the discussion continued with the digital 28mm HR lens.

So in my opinion, it is clear that the 24mm cannot be used on a p2 without vigneting.

I hope this answers fully.

Thanks to you too and best regards,
Thierry
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« Reply #54 on: March 04, 2007, 10:45:57 AM »
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Dear Yaya,

Nothing to thank.

I must be honest and say that I did not further check and look for information about this 24mm lens, after my last post on it.
And I must be honest to say that I have obviously not tried this lens myself.

I will have to check in details with our product manager about the possibility to be mounted on the p2: he was thinking yes, that it might be possible. But this has to be confirmed, therefore I wrote "possibly .... on request", with "possibly" and "on request" refering to Sinar and the p2. I shall check it out, if you wish. As for vigneting: the Dalsa sensor might be on the very limit of vigneting, depending on the f-stop used. I guess you did use a Dalsa sensor? Which aperture?

Let me some time to check it out in detail for you tomorrow.

Best regards,
Thierry





Quote
Thanks Thierry,

I'm not sure about the 24mm...I've used it on both the ALPA XY and the Cambo WD-S aithout vignetting while focused to infinity (no shift).
My question is can this lens be focused to infinity on the P2? Vignetting or not? Without having to use a special shutter configuration?

I also don't understand the "can be mounted on request" thing...AFAIK, one can buy Schneider and/or Rodenstock lenses through various suppliers or directly from the manufacturers and can choose the shutter configuration (Copal/ Schneider/ Rollei) uppon ordering. I don't know the Copal as being "on request"...

Thanks again,

Yair
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« Reply #55 on: March 04, 2007, 04:32:26 PM »
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Dear all,

I use the 24mm on an Alpa XY with an Apus 75, I can shift 3-4mm with centerfilter, focus at infinity, without vigneting at appeture 11 - and yes, this lens, and setup is very well performing in every way.

Very best,
Adam
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« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2007, 04:18:33 AM »
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Yaya,

here the information you wished to have about the Schneider Digitar 24mm.

The information about image circle of 60mm and that a 22 MPx sensor with 61.2mm diagonal would be vigneting comes from Schneider themselves: they even have a drawing in their brochure showing that.

However, after checking and speaking to somebody from Schneider, we have been told that the image circle has an effective calculated diameter of 60mm and that the resolution is decreasing below the limit, but not the luminosity: which is why the vigneting is not seen. But obviously, no shift is possible.

This information all comes from Schneider.

Then, and about this lens on a p2:

- the Schneider 24mm Digitar is availabe in Rollei, Schneider and Copal shutters (Copal is not mentioned in their brochures).
- the lens is mounted on a 40mm recessed lensboard by Schneider, which allows to mount it on the p2, in front of the lens standard, and can then be focused at infinity.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thanks Thierry,

I'm not sure about the 24mm...I've used it on both the ALPA XY and the Cambo WD-S aithout vignetting while focused to infinity (no shift).
My question is can this lens be focused to infinity on the P2? Vignetting or not? Without having to use a special shutter configuration?

I also don't understand the "can be mounted on request" thing...AFAIK, one can buy Schneider and/or Rodenstock lenses through various suppliers or directly from the manufacturers and can choose the shutter configuration (Copal/ Schneider/ Rollei) uppon ordering. I don't know the Copal as being "on request"...

Thanks again,

Yair
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Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
yaya
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« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2007, 04:36:33 AM »
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Thanks for the info Thierry, much appreciated!

So the recessed lensboard need to be ordered from Shcneider or it this a Sinar item?

BTW the 24mm in Copal #0 is listed on Schneider's website: http://tinyurl.com/yqdkok

Cheers

yair



Quote
Yaya,

here the information you wished to have about the Schneider Digitar 24mm.

The information about image circle of 60mm and that a 22 MPx sensor with 61.2mm diagonal would be vigneting comes from Schneider themselves: they even have a drawing in their brochure showing that.

However, after checking and speaking to somebody from Schneider, we have been told that the image circle has an effective calculated diameter of 60mm and that the resolution is decreasing below the limit, but not the luminosity: which is why the vigneting is not seen. But obviously, no shift is possible.

This information all comes from Schneider.

Then, and about this lens on a p2:

- the Schneider 24mm Digitar is availabe in Rollei, Schneider and Copal shutters (Copal is not mentioned in their brochures).
- the lens is mounted on a 40mm recessed lensboard by Schneider, which allows to mount it on the p2, in front of the lens standard, and can then be focused at infinity.

Best regards,
Thierry
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thsinar
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« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2007, 04:39:56 AM »
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Welcome!

Yes, you have to order from Schneider and tell them for which camera (p2), and they shall mount it on the recessed lensboard.

Thanks for the info about Schneider's website: I guess our guys checked at the German one.

Addendum:

Hoops! I just see that it is the German one!

Nice day,
Thierry

Quote
Thanks for the info Thierry, much appreciated!

So the recessed lensboard need to be ordered from Shcneider or it this a Sinar item?

BTW the 24mm in Copal #0 is listed on Schneider's website: http://tinyurl.com/yqdkok

Cheers

yair
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Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
adammork
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« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2007, 03:11:18 PM »
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However, after checking and speaking to somebody from Schneider, we have been told that the image circle has an effective calculated diameter of 60mm and that the resolution is decreasing below the limit, but not the luminosity: which is why the vigneting is not seen. But obviously, no shift is possible

Dear Thierry

When you talk with somebody from Schneider next time, you can pass the information that it is practical possible to shift the 24mm 3-4mm on the Dalsa sensor, I do this on an almost daily basis, with good results.

Maybe it's like the bumblebee  

I have posted a screen dump as an example with the 24mm shifted about 3 mm; there is also a 100% crop of the top left corner. The corner is not as sharp as the centre but still usable.

The 3-4 mm of shift doesn’t sound of much, but still very useful.

Best regards
Adam
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