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Author Topic: Sinar P2 and digital backs  (Read 24942 times)
thsinar
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« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2007, 06:44:36 PM »
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Thank you Adam!

Sure, 3 or 4 mm is a lot for architecture work: definitively useful.
And the corners don't look that bad, from what I can see.

I shall inform our people who have the contacts with Schneider. This is indeed usefull information and good to know.

Do you by chance have any experience with the slightly bigger Kodak 22 MPx sensor (49x37mm)? Should the same way offer in this case a little shift.

Thanks for your information,
Thierry

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Dear Thierry

When you talk with somebody from Schneider next time, you can pass the information that it is practical possible to shift the 24mm 3-4mm on the Dalsa sensor, I do this on an almost daily basis, with good results.

Maybe it's like the bumblebee 

I have posted a screen dump as an example with the 24mm shifted about 3 mm; there is also a 100% crop of the top left corner. The corner is not as sharp as the centre but still usable.

The 3-4 mm of shift doesn’t sound of much, but still very useful.

Best regards
Adam
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #61 on: March 05, 2007, 11:58:33 PM »
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the corner looks still good and certainly very usuable. maybe i would go for it in addition to the 28HR, seeing the good distortion and hearing that 3-4mm shift are still possible in that way... but
its a big drawback from my gottschalt camera that it does not accept the 24xl and 35xl without complicate and expansive exchange of the rotatable frontboard. gottschalt told me that months after i have had the camera. .......
« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 06:22:46 AM by rehnniar » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2007, 07:31:12 AM »
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Do you by chance have any experience with the slightly bigger Kodak 22 MPx sensor (49x37mm)? Should the same way offer in this case a little shift


Dear Thierry
I do not have any experience with the 24xl on the Kodak sensor.

Dear Rainer
It was nice meeting you in Copenhagen and kicking tires  

Kind regards
Adam
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thsinar
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« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2007, 07:33:45 AM »
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Thank you Adam!

Thierry

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Dear Thierry
I do not have any experience with the 24xl on the Kodak sensor.

Dear Rainer
It was nice meeting you in Copenhagen and kicking tires   

Kind regards
Adam
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Fritzer
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« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2007, 11:07:23 PM »
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To get back to the question the OP asked: can the pinion of the P2 be considered suitable for use with digital backs, if used with the standard range of lenses in large format professional photography , say 50 to 150 mm ( for DBs ).

Let's not forget that architecture photography is a small niche market, and the 24 - 35 mm range is not used by the majority of LF photographers.  

Also, I'm wondering if there really is no difference between the pinion of a P2 and P3; I've been looking for this information for quite some time.

Thanks in advance.
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thsinar
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« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2007, 11:14:29 PM »
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Dear Fritzer,

the p3 gears are basically the same as on the p2, but adjusted differently: I can get you this info from our product manager, if you wish.

But what I can say for sure: yes, the p2 is doing the job, and IMO even very well.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
To get back to the question the OP asked: can the pinion of the P2 be considered suitable for use with digital backs, if used with the standard range of lenses in large format professional photography , say 50 to 150 mm ( for DBs ).

Let's not forget that architecture photography is a small niche market, and the 24 - 35 mm range is not used by the majority of LF photographers.  

Also, I'm wondering if there really is no difference between the pinion of a P2 and P3; I've been looking for this information for quite some time.

Thanks in advance.
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Fritzer
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« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2007, 12:48:25 PM »
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Dear Fritzer,

the p3 gears are basically the same as on the p2, but adjusted differently: I can get you this info from our product manager, if you wish.

But what I can say for sure: yes, the p2 is doing the job, and IMO even very well.

Best regards,
Thierry
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Thanks for the reply, Thierry;

I'd appreciate if you could inform me/ us if the gearing of the focusing knobs of the P3 is different from the P2.
I just bought two P2s off Ebay ( to replace my trusty F2s ), which need the usual overhaul of that part, and might consider a modification of the rear standards, if possible and needed .

Also, I'm not familiar with the smaller, digital-specific view cameras, but the P2s work just fine with my Aptus 75 for still life photography, apart from those loose knobs which I need to have adjusted.
The gearing could be a tad finer (term? ) for digital, though.

Plenty stiff, coming from the F2, and certainly stronger than the Cambos, Linhofs and Horsemans I have used over the years.
With the bank holder mounted behind the rear standard, it allows plenty of movement with a 47XL non-digital ( on a slightly recessed board ), more than the digiback tolerates  .

Apart from being a terrific tool for my field of work, the use of Sinars 4x5s allows me to rent lenses , bodies and accessories everywhere in the world, if I can't bring all of my equipment , which is crucial for me and might be worth a consideration.
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thsinar
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« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2007, 06:51:39 PM »
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Welcome Tom!

I shall provide you the informaton about the differences p2/p3: let me some time to get it from our product manager.

Best regards,
Thierry

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Thanks for the reply, Thierry;

I'd appreciate if you could inform me/ us if the gearing of the focusing knobs of the P3 is different from the P2.

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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2007, 02:49:11 AM »
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Dear Tom,

Here the information you wished to have and concerning the differences between the Sinar p2 and p3:

- the frames are different in size (100mm for the p3) and have built-in eletronical gold contacts
- the vertical shift possibility is about 2 cm less on the p3 (due to a shorther standard)
- the basic extension is a few millimeters shorter due to different "caps" used
- the horizontal shift, the tilt & swing movements are identical
- the gears as well as other mechanical elements are the same

I hope this answers your question.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Welcome Tom!

I shall provide you the informaton about the differences p2/p3: let me some time to get it from our product manager.

Best regards,
Thierry
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« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 02:49:47 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2007, 05:23:57 AM »
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Thierry,
Does the sliding adapter you described below fit on a p2?  If yes, is the revolving adapter you described on page 1 compatible.  Lastly, will an Hasselblad H-mount digital back fit on it.  I may need the codes for these products if your answers fit.

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.... and just a precision about the sliding adapter: this sliding adapter is built in a way that the back itself is excatly in the same plane where used to be the 4x5" groundglass (and of course in the "Tilt & Swings" assymetrical axes of the p2). therefore there are no 15mm or so lost for this sliding adapter.

I hope I express myself clearly enough.

Thierry
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Guillermo
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« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2007, 07:18:36 AM »
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hi Billy,

Yes, this sliding adapter fits on the p2: it is actually designed for the p3 (100mm sized) and thus it needs the use of a tapered bellow 4x5"/100.

The sliding adapter is fixed the same way as when changing the format frame: unscrew the 4x5" frame on the rear standard and screw the sliding adapter on it. It takes 15".
Of course, this sliding adapter (with its groundglass and sensor) is then located excatly in the same image plane as the 4x5" groundglass, with the axes in this plane, making it possible to tilt, swing and focus as with 4x5" (although I personnally prefer the live video to do it).

And yes, this sliding adapter is with the Hasselblad V mount.

It is then not longer possible to mount the revolving adapter: this revolving adapter kit is (was = discontinued, but still some few in stock) on a 4x5" mount to be fit on the "Carrier Frame Wide" of the p2.

Code for the "Sliding Adapter 100 HB-V, basic" is 551.32.095
Code for the "Tapered Bellows 4x5/100" is 452.16.010
or then the Code for the "Wide Angle Bellows 4x5/100 EL" is 455.16.000, if using short focal length lenses. (EL stands for ELectronic ---> uses the contacts on the p3, but can be used without on a p2).

You might need also an Y-Sync cable (depending the bellow extension) if you are using Copal lenses (Code 521.51.010)

Best regards,
Thierry

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Thierry,
Does the sliding adapter you described below fit on a p2?  If yes, is the revolving adapter you described on page 1 compatible.  Lastly, will an Hasselblad H-mount digital back fit on it.  I may need the codes for these products if your answers fit.
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« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 07:19:47 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2007, 10:12:13 AM »
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Thank you as usual for your effort, Thierry.  I appreciate that your answers are so Swiss-precise to my exact questions.  It was my mistake for phrasing my question loosely.

In my search for a sliding back adapter to fit a Sinar 4x5 p2, I cannot rationalize $4K on the p2 to p3 upgrade, $4K on a sliding adapter, and $1K on a V-mount adapter plate (all prices are approximate).  Instead, what was looking attractive to me was a used Phase One Flex Adapter at $2K, until a comrade pointed out other solutions from Cambo, Eco-Digital, Mergin-X, and Plaubel.  Further comments from all are welcomed as I research further.
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Guillermo
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« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2007, 10:25:30 AM »
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Welcome!

I understand, your concerns about prices. However, you don't need an upgrade from p2 to p3 at $4k: the p2 lens standard remains the same. Just mount the sliding adapter with the tapered bellow.

The Flex adapter is cheaper, admitted, but am not sure if exactly in the tilt & swing axes, probably not (has to be confirmed), which would then make your p2 become a "normal" view camera..

Thierry

Quote
Thank you as usual for your effort, Thierry.  I appreciate that your answers are so Swiss-precise to my exact questions.  It was my mistake for phrasing my question loosely.

In my search for a sliding back adapter to fit a Sinar 4x5 p2, I cannot rationalize $4K on the p2 to p3 upgrade, $4K on a sliding adapter, and $1K on a V-mount adapter plate (all prices are approximate).  Instead, what was looking attractive to me was a used Phase One Flex Adapter at $2K, until a comrade pointed out other solutions from Cambo, Eco-Digital, Mergin-X, and Plaubel.  Further comments from all are welcomed as I research further.
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2007, 10:39:29 AM »
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Dear Tom,

Here the information you wished to have and concerning the differences between the Sinar p2 and p3:

- the frames are different in size (100mm for the p3) and have built-in eletronical gold contacts
- the vertical shift possibility is about 2 cm less on the p3 (due to a shorther standard)
- the basic extension is a few millimeters shorter due to different "caps" used
- the horizontal shift, the tilt & swing movements are identical
- the gears as well as other mechanical elements are the same

I hope this answers your question.

Best regards,
Thierry
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Exactly the information I was looking for, thanks a bunch for your effort !
Always good to get that sort of information from the horse's mouth, rather than some sales person .

Cheers,
Tom
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 10:40:00 AM by Fritzer » Logged
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