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Author Topic: New firmware Z3100 available  (Read 46839 times)
Panascape
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« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2007, 02:46:34 PM »
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It is certainly going to be intersting to see what happens in the next few months and to see if Epson do infact bring something out.
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chris anderson
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« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2007, 03:00:57 PM »
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It is certainly going to be intersting to see what happens in the next few months and to see if Epson do infact bring something out.
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are you hearing of something coming sooner? I belive a 60 inch printer is supposed to show, and a new magenta formulated ink, that is all i have heard.
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Panascape
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« Reply #82 on: March 07, 2007, 03:02:45 PM »
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The guys I have been talking to are not hearing specifics, only bits and pieces. There have been unconfirmed rumours for a while about a VLF machine in the pipeline. I have also heard that they are looking at the magenta ink in the K3 inkset as the current one is a bit too red.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2007, 03:04:00 PM by Panascape » Logged
Mussi_Spectraflow
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« Reply #83 on: March 07, 2007, 07:40:21 PM »
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"I would really expect EFI to be getting the best results for a number of reasons that may or may not become public knowledge."

      Actually I never said I was getting "better" results. The EFI proof is however generating  the prints from which I stated that the accuracy of the printer seemed to be good. Using a RIP I was able to confirm that the prints we were producing were in tolerance.


"So far 4 papers have been tested with 2 profiling systems and the measurement data compared and so far the HP loses significantly to the Epson 4000 in colour depth and saturation of the red, green and blue in all 4 tests"

     I think this needs to be put in context. Are you saying that at all L* values the epson is producing more chroma than the HP on both matte and RC papers? This is contrary to the gamut plots, the measured data, and the prints that I have been producing. Or are you are talking about the low L* values on matte paper? There's a big difference between those two statements. As i've said many times the two printers show contrary gamuts, they trade areas of maximum saturation. However under no situations am I finding the entire HP gamut to be consumed by the Epson. Can you post a profile?

Julian Mussi
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Julian Mussi

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Mussi_Spectraflow
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« Reply #84 on: March 07, 2007, 09:42:51 PM »
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Here are 3d gamut shots top, and bottom view. The full color is the HP, the black Wire Frame is the Epson. They are both on the Epson Enhanced Matte, both printed using the printers drivers, both using the same profiling software, and measuring device. I see diferences, not an outright winner. The total volume is almost exactly the same.  The prints both look good with good neutrality throughout all the tones. Also these are using the K3 inks which have improved gamut over the ultrachrom inkset.

Julian Mussi
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Julian Mussi

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Panascape
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« Reply #85 on: March 08, 2007, 12:04:27 AM »
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Thanks for doing the comparison but unfortunately the total volume has never been the problem. Your graphs are showing the problem exactly as it is in that the Epson is beating the HP in primary red, primary blue and primary yellow. This is exactly where the problem lies.

The HP as expected wins on the brighter colours and pastels.

Your graph is illustrating the problem that has been found, the differences in the primaries are clear but do not seem overly significant but they are as the colours that they showing play a huge role and have a big knock on effect.

Just to explain for those here who may be a bit confused by all this. Looking at the right hand plot, you will see a rainbow shape with a black grid and two lines around it. The colour area is the HPz3100 and the black grid is the Epson with K3 INKS.

If we look at the two “circles” these represent the size or volume of the gamut “the colours the device can produce”. The first relevant factor here is the 3 bulges in the grid around the area where you would expect to find primary blue, red and yellow. These bulges indicate that the Epson is able to achieve more saturated primaries which have a huge impact on fine art printing. In contrast the HP has a better gamut around the greens and purples due to its extra inks.

What can get deceptive with these graphs is the scale. Although the areas in question can look small, they can actually represent a substantial volume of colour.

What we can clearly see from the two graphs is that the HP is better around the saturated to dark magenta colours which is not unexpected due to the fact that the Epson K3 ink set has a reasonably red magenta which can impact the magenta accuracy. The Epson is much better around the areas of primary red, yellow and blue which will give it a noticeable advantage if you were trying to print fire engine red for example.

What is not so apparent is that the HP is better with the lighter and brighter greens but falls down again when it comes to the darker or saturated greens.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 12:57:24 AM by Panascape » Logged
Mussi_Spectraflow
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« Reply #86 on: March 08, 2007, 12:55:32 AM »
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Thanks for doing the camparision but unfortuantly the total volume has never been the problem. Yor graphs are showing the problem exactly as it is in that the Epson is beating the HP in primary red, primary blue and primary yellow. This is exactly where the problem lies.

The HP as expected wins on the brighter colours and pastels.

Your graph is illustarting the problem that has been found, the differences in the pirmariesd are clear but do not seem overlly significant but they are as the colours that they showing play a huge role and have a big knok on effect.
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So the problem is that the epson is beating the HP in the red, blue, and yellow hue axis. I guess you could say the problem with the epson is that the HP beats is in the green,cyan and magenta axis? The HP wins on the brighter colors, and looses on most of the lower L* values. What knock on effect are you seeing? You said that this is better suited for CMYK proofing, which would imply that you agree that color accuracy is not the problem. For photographers the output on RC media is first rate. I agree that the matte performance initally was not where it needed to be. Since the last two firmware tweaks I've found the results to be quite good. In no way however would I call the results un acceptable on a general level, or that the printer is a failure. I'm not going to argue if you find the result don't meet your needs, I just felt some of the ultra negative generalizations should be put in context.

Julian Mussi
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Julian Mussi

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Panascape
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« Reply #87 on: March 08, 2007, 01:05:04 AM »
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Julian, I have never said the printer was a fauilure, I have though indicated that it fails to meet up to what was promissed and its price tag and currently for me it is not useable as a production machine.

I have never had a problem with colour accuracy. I have had a problem in that as you correctly state the HP loses on the lower L* values which has a knock on effect.

Although this problem will be the worst for fine art printers and photographers, I would worry about this in a repro environment as I have 3 litho jobs here that a client wanted prints of. The jobs have very dark maroon like red colours which is where the HP has a problem with but the Epson as we can see manages to cope with these colours.

I personally would not be happy yet putting a z3100 into either environment but do feel that the repro boys are likely to still have problems, but to a lesser extent.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 01:11:52 AM by Panascape » Logged
BlasR
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« Reply #88 on: March 08, 2007, 06:11:20 AM »
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I have the Z3100 44" epson 7600 and epson 4000pro with Image Print
so far I love my z3100 more then the other two especial in B&W.   I ask my other eyes (my wife) to look the colors and the tell me what photo she like the most (same photo print from each printer in color & B&W) she chose z3100 in she really love it in B&W from the z3100 , but because I'm not a professional,like almost all of you  I'm happy with my z3100. and I'm keep reading in waiting and see if Robert can resolved the problem with the red and the other colors.
In the end you only spend $4,500.00 after you get your rebate  $500 in media in $1000. cash

So far to me the printer is great

BlasR
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Panascape
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« Reply #89 on: March 08, 2007, 06:23:21 AM »
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As far as the z3100 and B&W goes, it gets my 2 thumbs up. If at least 50% of my work was B&W I would keep the z3100 just for this but unfortunatly most of my work is colour.
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Christopher
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« Reply #90 on: March 08, 2007, 10:40:37 AM »
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yeah and if you bought it earlier and you don't get any rebate it is 7500 EUR. Which are nearly 10000$ "autsch" that really hurts.
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Panascape
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« Reply #91 on: March 08, 2007, 11:04:06 AM »
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Yes and then try that at an exchange rate of R9.6 to 1 EUR and an annual interest rate on the finance deal of 13%.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 11:04:23 AM by Panascape » Logged
mcbroomf
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« Reply #92 on: March 09, 2007, 01:21:20 PM »
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HP sent me a new custom profile for HM FA Pearl.  It is supposed to appear under the custom set of profiles specifically for HM FAP.  

I will be upgrading the firmaware and installing the new profiles, including this one over the weekend to try as long as I can get the humidity high enough to prevent buckling.

I asked HP what they did with this profile to improve it, and if they had a problem with me sending it to anyone else but I've not received a reply, so if you would like a copy let me know.

Mike
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Mike Broomfield
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Panascape
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« Reply #93 on: March 09, 2007, 01:50:06 PM »
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I am assuming that this is a media profile, but just wanted to be 100% sure?

Robert
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Recked
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« Reply #94 on: March 09, 2007, 02:21:18 PM »
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Hello,

I have been watching this post with interest as I just recently leased a new 24 inch Z3100 and had great hopes after reading a number of very positive reviews etc. about it.

My thoughts are thus and are only my two cents, but I have to say that I have taught my children that when they make a mistake the best thing to do is admit to it first then see what needs to be done going forward not to make the same mistake a second time especially if it hurts or affects others around them.

I am obviously very naive in that I expect the same type of reaction when a large corporation royally screws (yes I know very, very naive) up as HP appears to have done with the Z3100. Why haven't they contacted the purchasers of this product and explained to them personally what they intend to do to make things right. It seems from this post that some have their ear, but we all deserve to be spoken to and given answers for what is a partially working product and an expensive one at that. I am not as well versed with regards to testing for color issues etc. as others seem to be here, but I know when something doesn't look right and things don't look right and need to be fixed.

I am considering just speaking with my attorney to see if there is some way to get out of my lease and return what is in my mind a defective product or lemon.

Anyway after last nights attempt to follow the install instructions for ICC profiles from the HP sight I had had my fill and decided to vent here.

I don't expect perfection, but for the price of this printer I had hoped/expected to get a functioning printer able to produce something close to reality.

regards


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I am assuming that this is a media profile, but just wanted to be 100% sure?

Robert
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Panascape
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« Reply #95 on: March 09, 2007, 02:51:02 PM »
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Anyway after last nights attempt to follow the install instructions for ICC profiles from the HP sight I had had my fill and decided to vent here.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105701\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I can undertand your frustration but I can assure you getting the stuff in beta from from HP can be even more frustrating especially when they forget to supply an installer or initially instructions on how to install it.
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« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2007, 02:56:21 PM »
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I am not trying to sound like the only one as I fully realize there are folks out there who have purchased this machine who depend on it and other printers for their living. I have a "day" job that assists in paying my photography bills like this printer, but again HP needs to step up for all those out there who have made this purchase and do the right thing. It really is the only sensible thing to do unless they wish to feel the backlash the next time an end user is looking for a new printer or computer workstation etc.

Again I know there are people out there much worse off then me, but I am a paying customer as well and want to be treated as such especially when there is a clear and documented issue with this machine.

I don't that we should be made to feel unreasonable to expect anything less.....

enjoy your weekend


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I can undertand your frustration but I can assure you getting the stuff in beta from from HP can be even more frustrating especially when they forget to supply an installer or initially instructions on how to install it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105704\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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mcbroomf
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« Reply #97 on: March 12, 2007, 09:53:56 AM »
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I am assuming that this is a media profile, but just wanted to be 100% sure?

Robert
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Sorry for the delay in my answer, I was offline over the weekend.

Yes, this is a media profile (a .oms file).  It creates a new paper name in the printer for you to choose.  I loaded it over the weekend but had no opportunity to try it.

Doug, I tried sending it to you but got an email failure.  I'll try again later today.

Mike
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Mike Broomfield
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