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Author Topic: Nikon vs. Cannon  (Read 234791 times)
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2007, 11:41:04 PM »
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I second BJL's advice about setting a budget, but don't just budget for a camera/lens.  Remember all the little (or not so little) pieces of gear you might need/want: tripod, monopod, flash, bags, belts, vests, batteries, pocket wizards, another flash, some softboxes, memory cards, an extra charger, vertical grip, gaff tape, ramen to eat because you spent all your money on gear......the list goes on and on!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=104713\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

...fast computer, screen, calibration software and hardware, Raid 5 storage unit, DVD for backup, software,...

Regards,
Bernard
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Paul Kay
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« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2007, 07:26:36 AM »
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"What amazingly dogmatic suggestions you have received! ..... Consider even other brands: many very good photographers are getting good results, with Fuji, Olympus, Pentax, and Konica-Minolta/Sony DSLR's."

Speaking personally, the camera system I bought when I was a student (Nikon) keyed me into their system until Canon lured me away with FF digital 25 years later. I heard a UK statistic recently which was that we are more likely to get divorced than change our bank! I'd hazzard a guess that the camera system you go for as a student is likely to be the one you use for many years to come.

For what it is worth (and I know there will be objections), I personally know of no pros using anything other than Nikon or Canon dSLRs (ok perhaps one or two own a Leica M but I'm talking using not owning). I also know of none who have switched from Canon to Nikon but I do know a fair few who have switched from Nikon to Canon. Without wanting to be dogmatic, I see this as a trend for a reason - not that Canon are better than Nikon, but that the Canon FF probably fulfills more professional's requirements of a camera at this moment in time - in my own case this means fast wides and macros which remain physically the same size in use, together with the subtle differences in the final image. Other friends have other reasons for using Canon FF but my observations as to the shift from Nikon to Canon are not unique - I know this from talking to other photographers.

When selecting a camera/system do look at all available options, but also be aware of why photographers use the gear that they do.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2007, 08:00:42 AM »
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"What amazingly dogmatic suggestions you have received! ..... Consider even other brands: many very good photographers are getting good results, with Fuji, Olympus, Pentax, and Konica-Minolta/Sony DSLR's."

Speaking personally, the camera system I bought when I was a student (Nikon) keyed me into their system until Canon lured me away with FF digital 25 years later. I heard a UK statistic recently which was that we are more likely to get divorced than change our bank! I'd hazzard a guess that the camera system you go for as a student is likely to be the one you use for many years to come.

For what it is worth (and I know there will be objections), I personally know of no pros using anything other than Nikon or Canon dSLRs (ok perhaps one or two own a Leica M but I'm talking using not owning). I also know of none who have switched from Canon to Nikon but I do know a fair few who have switched from Nikon to Canon. Without wanting to be dogmatic, I see this as a trend for a reason - not that Canon are better than Nikon, but that the Canon FF probably fulfills more professional's requirements of a camera at this moment in time - in my own case this means fast wides and macros which remain physically the same size in use, together with the subtle differences in the final image. Other friends have other reasons for using Canon FF but my observations as to the shift from Nikon to Canon are not unique - I know this from talking to other photographers.

When selecting a camera/system do look at all available options, but also be aware of why photographers use the gear that they do.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=104776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree uterly with all of the above

I dont know any pros not N or C

I started with Nikon and am feeling very lured by Canon because of full frame

Trouble is I have endep up owning nikon lenses from 14-600

So it is an iportant desision right now to get right

And canon is where is is currenlty at !

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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boku
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2007, 11:03:48 AM »
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I agree uterly with all of the above

I dont know any pros not N or C

I started with Nikon and am feeling very lured by Canon because of full frame

Trouble is I have endep up owning nikon lenses from 14-600

So it is an iportant desision right now to get right

And canon is where is is currenlty at !

SMM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=104781\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

And - I believe the new 1D III and it's sensible co-released items indicated that Canon isn't about to yield the pro market. That is the most profound professional camera design conceived yet.
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ddolde
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« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2007, 11:41:45 AM »
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With Canons announcement of the 1Ds Mark III, we can assume there will be a 1Ds Mark III with similar features but likely twice the megapixels or more.

To me this puts Canon in first by a long shot.  Only a BIG surprise from Nikon would put them back in the running.
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BJL
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2007, 12:46:40 PM »
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I personally know of no pros using anything other than Nikon or Canon dSLRs
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Firstly, what pros use is not necessarily the measure of what a student or amateur should choose. Even serious amateurs might have very different needs than the stereotypical sports/PJ "pro". For me, all the Canon and Nikon "pro" options lead to kits that are far too big and heavy for my purposes.

Secondly, pro SLR usage includes a lot of non C+N MF gear.

Thirdly: [a href=\"http://www.olympusamerica.com/e1/gallery.asp]http://www.olympusamerica.com/e1/gallery.asp[/url]
And I imagine that Pentax and Sony could put together similar lists.
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jorgedelfino
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2007, 03:32:28 PM »
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The bottomline being that, for someone looking for pro grade cameras, the market share of the company producing the camera is IMHO irrelevant. The 5D would still be a great camera even if Nikon were to outsell Canon 2 to 1 like in the old days.

Regards,
Bernard
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You are absolutly right!
cheers
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2007, 04:08:18 PM »
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Firstly, what pros use is not necessarily the measure of what a student or amateur should choose. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=104835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ok my first camera was practica but then I went to nikon very quickly

If one assumes one is a student - studying to become professional - there are two reasons to go with pro kit

- Sensible simple purchases like a fast fifty are affordable by students and will stay in thier kit for years even when they are pro so no losses on selling or trading in

- When one assists or gets a work experience on a paper or whatever you already have a basic working knowliedge of the kit

(just look at all the asisting adverts that require knowledge of Canon, Phase One and Capture One)

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Leping
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« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2007, 01:19:58 AM »
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Anyone want statistical analysis how likely this is due to pure chance?

85% in MR's expedition shot Canon, and 6x1DsIII + 3x5D + 2xRebels
dead in light drizzle.  Most of the rest were shooting Nikon with no
problems.

My 5D had problems in the drizzle while my D2x kept working well.

Thanks,
Leping Zha
Ph.D. in Physics
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Christopher
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« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2007, 01:41:33 PM »
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Anyone want statistical analysis how likely this is due to pure chance?

85% in MR's expedition shot Canon, and 6x1DsIII + 3x5D + 2xRebels
dead in light drizzle.  Most of the rest were shooting Nikon with no
problems.

My 5D had problems in the drizzle while my D2x kept working well.

Thanks,
Leping Zha
Ph.D. in Physics
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=104957\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nice one. Now take the whole statistic and you will see that it is totally normal. For example if just one Nikon would have failed the rate would have been much worse.
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BJL
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« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2007, 02:11:02 PM »
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I am a photography student and I am ready to buy a good digital SLR.  My  photography interest include:  landscape, action and portraiture.  My instructor has recommended the Cannon. My sister who is in the business says Nikon is industry standard. Price is not really an issue, but I want to be sure I don't regret my purchase. Any advice
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=104461\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Congratulations valkyrie1965: new member, one single post guaranteed to start a brand vs brand bun fight, and then no further posts in response to anyone's advice and comments.

Ladies and gentlemen, I think that we have been trolled.

I wonder if valkyrie1965 will now at last make a follow-up post, telling us about having being busy (with spelling lessons?) and objecting to my insinuation.
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Hren
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« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2007, 02:40:11 PM »
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I am a photography student and I am ready to buy a good digital SLR.  My  photography interest include:  landscape, action and portraiture.  My instructor has recommended the Cannon. My sister who is in the business says Nikon is industry standard. Price is not really an issue, but I want to be sure I don't regret my purchase. Any advice
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=104461\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would prefer Canon 400 D. This is good enough, 5 D is four times more expencive; I didn't find four times more quality. 400 D has reasonable price plus nice opportunity to use old (but  perfect) Leica R lenses with cheap adapter.
Whole my life I used to use Nikon(s) analogue instead of Canon. I preferred Nikkor lenses because of their sharpness (especialy in B/W photos). In digital world everything seems more similar. Only exception in this comparison I found is probably Nikon's nice zoom 18-200 or new Zeiss ZF series, but very expencive and without autofocus.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2007, 05:17:32 PM »
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5 D is four times more expencive[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105337\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But what si the cost of

400d plus

14 2.8 or 16-35 (decent wide)

and

35 1.4 to get a (nice wide aperture lense portraits)

Versus

a 5d

20 2.8 (decent wide)

and

50 1.8 (nice wide aperture lense portraits)

Now the gap doesnt look so big especailly as the second set of primes are widely available used

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Ray
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« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2007, 06:07:20 PM »
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But what si the cost of

400d plus

14 2.8 or 16-35 (decent wide)

and

35 1.4 to get a (nice wide aperture lense portraits)

Versus

a 5d

20 2.8 (decent wide)

and

50 1.8 (nice wide aperture lense portraits)

Now the gap doesnt look so big especailly as the second set of primes are widely available used

SMM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105358\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Sigma 12-24 is poor at the edges but just fine with a crop format like the 400D. That gets you as wide as 20mm FF equivalent. The 50/1.8 on the 400D becomes a reasonably high quality portrait lens like the 85/1.8 but cheaper.

As a beginner, I'd go with the 400D, but not necessarily if price is not an issue. If price is not an issue, then you simply get the best for your purposes. The disadvantage of a 1D3 might be the weight factor. The 1Ds2 and 5D are likely to be replaced before the end of the year, so if price is not a problem and weight is not a problem, I'd go for the 1D3 and later buy the FF 22mp successor to the 1Ds2.

Up to 10 frames per second and ISO 6400 capability make the 1D3 very appealing.
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howiesmith
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« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2007, 06:53:46 PM »
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Anyone want statistical analysis how likely this is due to pure chance?

85% in MR's expedition shot Canon, and 6x1DsIII + 3x5D + 2xRebels
dead in light drizzle.  Most of the rest were shooting Nikon with no
problems.

My 5D had problems in the drizzle while my D2x kept working well.

Thanks,
Leping Zha
Ph.D. in Physics
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=104957\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
 {Emphasis added}

To do a real "statistical analysis" for pure chance, doesn't one also need to know something about the populations of photographers and cameras?  Were the photographers and their equipment really random choices.  I don't know, but I doublt it.  LL seems quite biased toward Canon for what ever reason - good or bad or neutral, just not apparently random.  Was each camera user using the same caution to keep their equipment dry?  Not know as far as I know.  (Didn't someone mention only three or so photographers even thought to bring a rain coat for themselves.)  If the Mamiya film camera failed, would that mean the rate was 100% and only a fool would take one out on less that a sunny 16 day?

I doubt simply looking at the reported failure rates acurately determines the failure rate of either Nikon or Canon.
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howiesmith
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« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2007, 07:44:12 PM »
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Firstly, what pros use is not necessarily the measure of what a student or amateur should choose. Even serious amateurs might have very different needs than the stereotypical sports/PJ "pro". For me, all the Canon and Nikon "pro" options lead to kits that are far too big and heavy for my purposes.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=104835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What a pro uses may not be his photographic choice.  Some pros are contracted by equipment makers to use their brand.  So because Joe Pro uses Chuck's Fine Cameras doesn't necessarily mean Chuck's is where its happening, just Chuck made it worth Joe's time to promate his equipment.

Some pro staffers are simply provided with equipment and have bo choice.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2007, 08:03:22 PM »
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Anyone want statistical analysis how likely this is due to pure chance?

85% in MR's expedition shot Canon, and 6x1DsIII + 3x5D + 2xRebels
dead in light drizzle.  Most of the rest were shooting Nikon with no
problems.

My 5D had problems in the drizzle while my D2x kept working well.

Thanks,
Leping Zha
Ph.D. in Physics
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=104957\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The number of Nikons on Michael's trip, from what I've read, is too small a sample for drawing any reliable statistical inference. Likewise 1 5D versis 1 D2x is at best a symptomatic outcome from which no valid statistical inference can be made. Maybe the D2x is designed more water resistant than the 5D, maybe it isn't. One would need more information about the design specs or many more of each used with the same exposure to the identical rain conditions to draw any meaningful statistical inference.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Paul Kay
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« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2007, 04:11:28 AM »
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"What a pro uses may not be his photographic choice." - ALL the Pros I personally know buy their own gear so the decision is theirs.

This whole thread seems to miss the point which originally was what gear a student should buy. Now assuming this to be a serious question and that the student is studying photography with the intention of becoming a professional photographer (I can't think that you would study photography for any other reason, it was certainly my intention) then there are hard facts to be considered and these lead down the road to Nikon or Canon (as '35mm type cameras) - as I said before I simply don't know any pro using anything else. Of these I see Canon as the more used because it fulfills more requirements (certainly of the Pros I know). Concerns about which make is better, more water resistant, etc, etc, etc, are pretty irrelevant. If the questioner wanted advice or observations as to which equipment is most used (rather than just to stir up a discussion!) then that's my two-pennorth. As I said before, many will not agree and some will even think I'm anti-Nikon (and they will be wrong, I miss various aspects of my Nikons) but I was, and am, trying to answer the question objectively.

Photography is now far to easily diverted into discussions about technical spec and half-truths concerning performance. In the real world cameras are tools and we have never had it so good. But a student needs to consider what is relevant for work and especially if intending to assist, it is essential to be familiar with the most likely to be encountered gear. Sorry to apply the common sense approach!
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howiesmith
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« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2007, 07:26:10 AM »
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I am a photography student and I am ready to buy a good digital SLR. My photography interest include: landscape, action and portraiture. My instructor has recommended the Cannon. My sister who is in the business says Nikon is industry standard. Price is not really an issue, but I want to be sure I don't regret my purchase. Any advice
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=104461\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

good digital SLR - either one

"[T]he fact that [Art Wolfe} lost all (or nearly all) of his Nikon stuffs in one shot gave him an opportunity to switch, and he went where the money was. I suppose he had to pay for his original Nikon stuffs, and when Canon offered him free stuffs, he took the opportunity."  A pro who switched from Nikon to Canon.

"In a column in Outdoor Photographer about a year or so before he was killed, Galen Rowell expressed some irritation with Nikon and hinted that if they didn't come through with a better deal, that he was being courted by Canon and might jump ship. Later he said that all was well and he was staying with Nikon. Of course, he did not say what he asked for or what he got."  A Nikon using pro.

"My instructor has recommended the Cannon."  Why.  Ask him.

"My sister who is in the business says Nikon is industry standard."  Do you trust her (more than Paul Kay or Canon)?  Would she lie to you?  Could she be wrong?  Why does she think that?

Paul Kay says he "simply [doesn't] know any pro using anything else."  Certainly narrows the field.  (I know a pro who used Leica until Konica paid him enough to love them.)

Seems at least a couple pros don't pay full price for their equipment.

Like the man says, "Sometimes you gotta make up your mind.  Choose one and leave the other behind."

++++++++++++++++++++++

My point is, perhaps Canon is winning the advertising battle.  If selecting a camera is a popularity contest (The envelope please.  w/drum roll) Canon.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 07:57:16 AM by howiesmith » Logged
DiaAzul
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« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2007, 04:52:19 PM »
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Wrong comparison, this should be what is the difference between a student and an academic?

The student has the crapest camera he can afford as all his (or her) money is spent on going out, drinking, sex, drugs and otherwise debaucherous behavouir. Whilst the pictures are technically inferior they are original, emotional and full of presence because the student is in the right place at the right time.

The academic has the technically best equipment that he can get. Having no money left over he (invariably it is a bloke) sits at home with no friends and serious case of acne. As a final act of desperation he takes a bunch of still life pictures (stiched pano to get 100Mpixel). The final pictures are technically perfect but boring as ditch water.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter two tugs whether the camera is any good, you have to learn to be in the right place at the right time and sneak every opportunity you can get to find a decent image - that is the most important thing to learn as a student. If you can do that with a tin can and wet paper then who cares that a Cakon is a better camera.
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