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Author Topic: H3D problems, again!  (Read 20666 times)
tomob
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« on: March 06, 2007, 04:40:03 PM »
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Hi there,

as I said in my December post, when I bought my H3D-22 I immediately experienced problems with the camera. Usually I would receive the error mesages like: restart the back, reattach lens, lens problems...) after just few exposures. It was almost impossible to work, while I was never sure if I'll take the next exposure. After we made clear that the problem is not the lens, dealer sent my camera back to the Hasselblad. My local dealer was very nice and gave me H1 with older Imacon back with image tank (132 I think) so I could work while waiting for my camera. I have to say that with that camera I did 6 shooting days and just ones received an error massage like (something is wrong with digital back communication), but everything worked fine.
So, after 2 weeks I received my H3D back, put it together, made 5 exposures...and received the same error messages again.
Called the dealer and explained everything to him. In the end they said they sent new H3D. I received it 2 weeks ago and went on a trip. So I really haven't used it a lot. The new camera works quite well, the sound is different, and all feels more solid, but as said I just did few home snapshots. I had had a shoot 3 days and it was hard for me to to believe, but... I received the error message again "Restart the back", the only way to keep working was to put off the battery on the camera and than it worked until the next error mesages. I can achieve that stadium almost whenever after ca. 50 exposures.
I have to say I'm a little desperate. Would like to hear your opinion. Tomorrow I'm going to call the dealer, it's going to be funny, thats sure.

Best,

Tomo
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2007, 04:50:39 PM »
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That must be very frustrating. I have heard of similar problems with the H1 and H2 bodies. Good luck in getting it resolved.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
josayeruk
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2007, 05:02:30 PM »
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Hi Tomo,

What version of FlexColor are you using?

New version 467 just released which has a new firmware as well.  

Made everything much zippier (capture rate) and improved the menu response.  

What CF cards are you using?  Do you format them before use in camera?

Jo S. x
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tomob
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2007, 05:32:30 PM »
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Hi, Jo and Graham,

I got my new H3D 2 weeks ago, it has 4.6.6. FlexColor, Digital capture firmware 190 and body firmware 1.0.0. Also I received the new prism viewfinder HVD 90X. My previous H3D came with a standard full format prism, without the notice. It felt really ignorant.

No, I haven't downloaded the 4.6.7. jet. Will definitely try, perhaps this might be the case. I'm using the extreme III Sundisc cf cards and I always format them on the camera.

Many thanks,

Tomo
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josayeruk
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2007, 05:39:29 PM »
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Hi, Jo and Graham,

I got my new H3D 2 weeks ago, it has 4.6.6. FlexColor, Digital capture firmware 190 and body firmware 1.0.0. Also I received the new prism viewfinder HVD 90X. My previous H3D came with a standard full format prism, without the notice. It felt really ignorant.

No, I haven't downloaded the 4.6.7. jet. Will definitely try, perhaps this might be the case. I'm using the extreme III Sundisc cf cards and I always format them on the camera.

Many thanks,

Tomo
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105099\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

466 was never really officially released as my dealer wouldn't let me have it as they had found some bugs!

So he made me wait until 467 which has firmware 196.

I think you shoudl try that before anything else.

Also you should try a Sandisc Extreme IV card - really makes a difference!

Jo Sx
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William.Rennaker
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2007, 07:45:59 PM »
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Some guy over on Photo.net bought an H3D in January, had problems some of which were similar to yours, mostly error messages and lockups. He returned the camera and Hasselblad offered him a free 28mm lens wf he would stick with the system. He thanked them and is now demo-ing a Leaf and a Phase.

When will it all end?
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MarkKay
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2007, 08:57:49 PM »
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So i thought one reason for the closed system was to avoid all these incompatibility bugs and error messages. Truthfully with my leaf and hassy h2 I rarely get an error message. I had a problem early on but the leaf folks replaced a bad circuit board. Mar k

Quote
Some guy over on Photo.net bought an H3D in January, had problems some of which were similar to yours, mostly error messages and lockups. He returned the camera and Hasselblad offered him a free 28mm lens wf he would stick with the system. He thanked them and is now demo-ing a Leaf and a Phase.

When will it all end?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105125\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Gary Yeowell
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2007, 08:59:44 PM »
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I hate to kick a man when he is down but really cannot see the the point in papering over the cracks of a bad job. I reported some problems i encountered as well as a catalogue of problems from two friends in similar situations as yourself. I know there are plenty of photographers who will swear blind they have had no problems with there H1/H2/H3 cameras with Imacon backs but i find it incomprehensible that so many problems are encountered.

In 18 months of use with a P20 i have had ZERO problems with either hardware or software, not one sign of a glitch. Call me lucky but ask how many other Phase users have a similar story, i bet it's most of them. Ask how many Imacon/'H' users have had multiple problems and i bet it's most of them.

I really hope you get it sorted, considering the money you have invested you deserve better.

Regards, Gary.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 09:12:32 PM by Gary Yeowell » Logged
josayeruk
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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2007, 01:11:52 AM »
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I hate to kick a man when he is down but really cannot see the the point in papering over the cracks of a bad job. I reported some problems i encountered as well as a catalogue of problems from two friends in similar situations as yourself. I know there are plenty of photographers who will swear blind they have had no problems with there H1/H2/H3 cameras with Imacon backs but i find it incomprehensible that so many problems are encountered.

In 18 months of use with a P20 i have had ZERO problems with either hardware or software, not one sign of a glitch. Call me lucky but ask how many other Phase users have a similar story, i bet it's most of them. Ask how many Imacon/'H' users have had multiple problems and i bet it's most of them.

I really hope you get it sorted, considering the money you have invested you deserve better.

Regards, Gary.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105133\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think unless you use a Hasselblad / Imacon / H3D etc combo daily it is pointless to make a sweeping statement like that.

Jo S.x
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vgogolak
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« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2007, 01:38:09 AM »
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Could also be just new technology. As early 'tester' for Leica M8 can appreciate issues. Even my DMR 'froze' and needed some reinsertion battery etc to clear errors. All fine in end. Same with H3D is assume.

BUT, I must say, I have also had four different P25 and P45 backs over three years period and have NO issues on workings of backs. Put on cameras (and I change a lot since I use Contax film backs too) and they work.  Phase backs just seem tough. In many such threads on Phase H3D or leaf or Inicom etc never hear anyone say a Phase back did not work.

Regards
Victor
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Gary Yeowell
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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2007, 04:01:08 AM »
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I think unless you use a Hasselblad / Imacon / H3D etc combo daily it is pointless to make a sweeping statement like that.

Jo S.x
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105164\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Agreed!! my experience without re writing an earlier post is that i had four demonstrations of 'different variations' of both Imacon and Leaf backs onto H1/H2 and all the demostrations had glitches, 2 had to be abandoned. The 'everyday' experiences i can talk about is with two very good friends both of which use an 'H' and Imacon. I could not possibly detail the extensive back catalogue of problems both of them have experienced over a 2 year period. Both of them have mentioned many times that they would jump ship in a heartbeat to a 'Phase' if they could without junking it all and starting again, and preferrably not on an 'H' although they are not sure what as the choices are limited, however one of them is now looking very seriously at the Phase.

Being a Hassy 'V' user of the last 25 years, also on the P20 Phase for last 18 months, i should have naturally moved over to the 'H' for the P30+ i have just ordered, however i am going to use the Contax even in its dying state, and have every confidence that the combo will be rock solid.

Regards, Gary.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2007, 04:43:11 AM by Gary Yeowell » Logged
vgogolak
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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2007, 07:56:31 AM »
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Being a Hassy 'V' user of the last 25 years, also on the P20 Phase for last 18 months, i should have naturally moved over to the 'H' for the P30+ i have just ordered, however i am going to use the Contax even in its dying state, and have every confidence that the combo will be rock solid.

Regards, Gary.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105183\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dear Gary

Yes, I went Contax and stayed many years when first came out (but really pretty new stuff to me! )

I use new 40mm IF, and older 30mm fisheye, and ESP the 180mm hasselblads on my contax. Even venerable 500/8 for wildlife!

Just set aperture, use manual, and rotate speed and watch exposure needle. Works great and can under-over expose per shot!
Must do stopped down of course. But easy to focus full open, stop down, capture (don't try for Indy 500 though!  :-)

Also, get focus confirmation with that nice little circle. Having been MF, MF for many years (now 64) I almost find AF on Contax a bother, though the 80mm is an amazing walk around lens.

The Contax, 80mm P45 is a little heavy but wonderfully stable (even 1/15) and smaller in my hand than typical bulky (read CaNikodak size SLRs)

I have talken on many treks in mountains.

'Sounds you enjoy this combination as I do.

Regards
Victor

PS: Contax not dying- just getting old gracefully!  :-)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2007, 07:58:48 AM by vgogolak » Logged
pss
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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2007, 12:08:38 PM »
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I think unless you use a Hasselblad / Imacon / H3D etc combo daily it is pointless to make a sweeping statement like that.

Jo S.x
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105164\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

everytime i have used an H camera i received errors...take the battery off, put it back on..go until it happens again.....everybody i have talked to about this confirms it....i haven't had any lenses falling apart, but i never used the cameras long enough....just long enough to get several errors a day...very annoying while shooting adn scary at first....after that just annoying....
i have used and owned leaf and phase backs along with rollei, mamiya (645 and RZ) and hassV cameras..no problems at all......phase is the king anyway.....do a poll on if anyone even had had a problem with any of their backs.....
like james always says go with what works....not the bleeding edge....
just read michaels report on the leicas.....what a joke....for that price....if that happened with a rebel, it would make sense.....but it does not.....and i guess one of his hass lenses stopped working again? money well spent...
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hcubell
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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2007, 01:22:34 PM »
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These issues are not unique to Hasselblad cameras and backs, and, if anything, serve as graphic evidence of why a fully integrated solution like the Sinar Hy6 and the H3D where one company puts the pieces together and is responsible for the integration is so desirable. Will it eliminate camera/back communication issues? No, but it should be more likely to minimize them.
BTW, it appears that not everyone finds Phase backs so rock solid and stable. http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....20&#entry105299
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pss
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« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2007, 01:43:48 PM »
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These issues are not unique to Hasselblad cameras and backs, and, if anything, serve as graphic evidence of why a fully integrated solution like the Sinar Hy6 and the H3D where one company puts the pieces together and is responsible for the integration is so desirable. Will it eliminate camera/back communication issues? No, but it should be more likely to minimize them.
BTW, it appears that not everyone finds Phase backs so rock solid and stable. http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....20&#entry105299
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105309\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

not sure what you are reading...these statements show that there seem to be MORE problems with integrated solutions then separate body/back solutions....and since the Hass is the only solution out there now it is the only one with problems....the Hy6 won't be as integrated as the H3D, it will simply have limited options in which backs to use (from factory) there will always be 2 batteries......nobody is asking for a 100% solution (actually we are, but that is not realistic) but this is a long way off....when i rent an H system, the first thing they show me is the battery "trick" when the camera locks up.....now we are to the third incarnation of the body, now with the battery obviously reworked to support the back as well and this is still not figured out? this is graphic evidence?

i also read the thread you linked to ..the only problem i found in there was "pre-sale problems with phase"...i would hardly put that in the same category as anything described in this thread alone....
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tomob
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« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2007, 02:20:00 PM »
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I downloaded the FlexColor 4.6.7. and new digital capture firmware 196. Did few exposures, everything seems fine at the moment. But will see in the end of the week when I'll be on a shoot. But I have to admit it's quite frustrating to hear such stories. Besides I don't know what to do if this errors will appear again, I mean the camera is just 2 weeks old, one just thinks what will happen in 2 years. What strategy should I use with the dealer, who was all the time very reasonable and helpful.

So, disappointed. But hope all will be fine with new firmware.
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ddolde
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« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2007, 03:44:31 PM »
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Thanks for the warning...I wasnt planning to buy a Hassle but now am sure I won't.

My Arca Swiss 4x5 is totally reliable; no electronics, battery, firmware, etc.  And I get MFDB quality with a drum scan.  

And no it didn't cost as much as a new car.
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josayeruk
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« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2007, 06:25:27 PM »
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I downloaded the FlexColor 4.6.7. and new digital capture firmware 196. Did few exposures, everything seems fine at the moment. But will see in the end of the week when I'll be on a shoot. But I have to admit it's quite frustrating to hear such stories. Besides I don't know what to do if this errors will appear again, I mean the camera is just 2 weeks old, one just thinks what will happen in 2 years. What strategy should I use with the dealer, who was all the time very reasonable and helpful.

So, disappointed. But hope all will be fine with new firmware.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105327\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hey Tomo,

Just give it time.  Its a fantastic system and I am sure you will enjoy creating images as I have done.

Remember that bad news travels faster than good!    

Jo Sx
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josayeruk
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« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2007, 06:26:19 PM »
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Thanks for the warning...I wasnt planning to buy a Hassle but now am sure I won't.

My Arca Swiss 4x5 is totally reliable; no electronics, battery, firmware, etc.  And I get MFDB quality with a drum scan. 

And no it didn't cost as much as a new car.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105346\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Doug...

You should test it yourself and make your own assumptions, as with any digital system!

Jo S.x
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William.Rennaker
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« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2007, 07:52:56 PM »
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Thanks for the warning...I wasnt planning to buy a Hassle but now am sure I won't.

My Arca Swiss 4x5 is totally reliable; no electronics, battery, firmware, etc.  And I get MFDB quality with a drum scan. 

And no it didn't cost as much as a new car.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105346\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So what is your point? You shoot film?
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