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Author Topic: H3D problems, again!  (Read 20505 times)
paul_jones
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« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2007, 12:49:26 AM »
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Thanks for the warning...I wasnt planning to buy a Hassle but now am sure I won't.

My Arca Swiss 4x5 is totally reliable; no electronics, battery, firmware, etc.  And I get MFDB quality with a drum scan. 

And no it didn't cost as much as a new car.
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you are lucky to have the luxury of shooting film. all my clients want to select shots on the day of the shoot, and get high res to the retouchers the next day.

film isnt reliable, easy to make mistakes, labs can stuff up. digital is reliable in that you know you have a problem when you have the problem, so its able to be solved.
 
just about every agency is asking for digital, and the cost shouldnt be a problem, just charge the expenses to the client.

paul
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josayeruk
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« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2007, 08:25:24 AM »
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everytime i have used an H camera i received errors...take the battery off, put it back on..go until it happens again.....everybody i have talked to about this confirms it....i haven't had any lenses falling apart, but i never used the cameras long enough....just long enough to get several errors a day...very annoying while shooting adn scary at first....after that just annoying....
i have used and owned leaf and phase backs along with rollei, mamiya (645 and RZ) and hassV cameras..no problems at all......phase is the king anyway.....do a poll on if anyone even had had a problem with any of their backs.....
like james always says go with what works....not the bleeding edge....
just read michaels report on the leicas.....what a joke....for that price....if that happened with a rebel, it would make sense.....but it does not.....and i guess one of his hass lenses stopped working again? money well spent...
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I'm sorry but this is another stupid statement...

Everybody I have talked to about this confirms it...Huh

Well you didn't talk to me obviously... or listen to what other happy Imacon / Hasselblad users have said even on this forum - hcubell for one.

Phase, Leaf, Sinar, Imacon, Hasselblad... have all had their fair share of problems.  If all the manufacturers apart from Phase are so terrible then why are they successful companies still in business?

Sinar, Leaf and Hasselblad all have huge wealthy experienced companies behind them.  Would they be so thick to invest in dead ducks with rubbish products nobody buys?

I am sure Yaya, Thierry will concur.

If you don't like Hasselblad - that ok - just flaming it at every opportunity is boring me.

Jo S. x
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James Russell
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« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2007, 09:09:18 AM »
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I'm sorry but this is another stupid statement...

Everybody I have talked to about this confirms it...Huh

Well you didn't talk to me obviously... or listen to what other happy Imacon / Hasselblad users have said even on this forum - hcubell for one.

Phase, Leaf, Sinar, Imacon, Hasselblad... have all had their fair share of problems.  If all the manufacturers apart from Phase are so terrible then why are they successful companies still in business?

Sinar, Leaf and Hasselblad all have huge wealthy experienced companies behind them.  Would they be so thick to invest in dead ducks with rubbish products nobody buys?

I am sure Yaya, Thierry will concur.

If you don't like Hasselblad - that ok - just flaming it at every opportunity is boring me.

Jo S. x
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JosX,

I think we are all succepable to this.  Somebody reports a problem and it is assumed that all of that brand have the same problem.

Given this, I probably pass through about 50 crew members a year, around the world and if any camera conversations come up, almost to a person, everyone mentions jams on the H system and everyone knows the pull the battery trick if you shoot non tethered.

Nothing is a buzz kill like a jammed camera, film, or digital, medium format or dslr and I've seen them all Jam except the original 1ds and the P-30.

When I moved to medium format with the Valeo then the Aptus I also suffered jams on the Contax, to the point I just assumed all non tetherred medium format jammed.  In fact it happened so often that I build a portable powerbook system and just shot everything tethered.

When I added the P-30 I actually was waiting for the same problems but after nearly 20,000 frames I've not had a single jam or had to pull the battery once.

Does that mean all P-30's on a Contax are error free?  Who knows, but it doesn't erase the fact that the H series does not have the most steller reputation "on the street".

If anything I think my lack of issues with the Contax is because it's a dead system.  No changing firmware for lenses or body doesn't require the db makers to continually try to write new firmware to keep up.

JR
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thsinar
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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2007, 09:22:20 AM »
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my own experience from last Sunday: I wish to give my experience, being a "Sinar" guy, I won't be suspected of not telling the truth.

I was out with 2 friends, one with his Canon and the other with his brand new H3D, and myself with my eMotion 75. We went all the 3 out for some fun shooting, purely for our plaisure, in Bangkok.

My friend with his H3D did not have or mention any jam on his camera, although he told me that he had 2 or 3 jams and had to re-start the system when he took it out of the box, at the begining.

But to be honest and fair, nothing of that happen during our shooting day together.

Best regards,
theirry
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 09:22:48 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2007, 09:25:47 AM »
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Unfortunately this site appears to have more than it's fair share of insecure people who need to resort to trashing brands they didn't choose in what appears to be an attempt to gratify their egos as they reinforce their own choice/preference.

As far as I'm concerned ALL these MF backs do an outstanding job, all have their share of issues off and on, but there is no "wrong" choice, just personal preference, workflow, and shooting style. The MF backs being discussed here are ALL good tools for making images. Period!

I'm all for constructive criticism of a product, but broad reaching, blanket statements just reflect bitterness and personal agenda rather than helpful information. At times, you'd think this site is full of commission based salesmen (no, I'm not talking about Thierry or Yaya who I think are rather brave for exposing themselves to some of this nonsense) rather than photographers.



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I'm sorry but this is another stupid statement...

Everybody I have talked to about this confirms it...Huh

Well you didn't talk to me obviously... or listen to what other happy Imacon / Hasselblad users have said even on this forum - hcubell for one.

Phase, Leaf, Sinar, Imacon, Hasselblad... have all had their fair share of problems.  If all the manufacturers apart from Phase are so terrible then why are they successful companies still in business?

Sinar, Leaf and Hasselblad all have huge wealthy experienced companies behind them.  Would they be so thick to invest in dead ducks with rubbish products nobody buys?

I am sure Yaya, Thierry will concur.

If you don't like Hasselblad - that ok - just flaming it at every opportunity is boring me.

Jo S. x
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tomob
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« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2007, 10:26:24 AM »
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Hi, all

it's quite frustrating to hear such stories about todays Hasselblad. In film days, I briefly owned elm. It was a very nice camera but I was emotionally connected  with my Pentaxes 67 and intuitively stayed with RZ  as my main "assignment" camera, which was/still is truly remarkable camera. My first digital experience was 1DsMk2, I had it for a year and had newer experienced a single problem. But I have to say I was always unhappy with the feel, it was almost suffocating for me and I tried to use 5x4 simultaneously whenever possible.
After studying MDB filed I've decided to go for integrated system (because of the errors I heard appeared in mixed combos) and in the end bought H3D-22.
I like the camera and again I have a feeling as being at home (after 35mm digital).

As Jo and my dealer a day later suggested me I downloaded new FlexColor and firmware. And since than I haven't experienced any problems. Hope it will stay like this.

My initial question is still, how careful do I have to be? While It would really be stupid to get angry after 1 year warranty is over, because I was to polite to dealer and Hasselblad.
So the questions is, how many, or how often do you think those kind of locks up still can be tolerated.

Many thanks,

T
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hcubell
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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2007, 11:44:59 AM »
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I'm sorry but this is another stupid statement...

If you don't like Hasselblad - that ok - just flaming it at every opportunity is boring me.

Jo S. x
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105463\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It may be boring to you(and me), but for some it's a serious,  part-time gig. When I see them coming, I hear this announcement in my head:  "Time Out for a (Negative) Advertisement for Hasselblad."
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2007, 12:38:23 PM »
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Guys if you get bored with all the negative statements about Hasselblad then don't read them !

If I had spent twenty thousand bucks or more on a camera and it kept jamming I'd be fed up too. I'm sure there are plenty of satisfied folks using Hasselblad gear but I don't think Hasselblad do themselves any favours in the PR game by their attitude towards their customers. I'm still waiting, after thirteen months, for a demo of their H system at my premises. Just last week I found out why this has not happened, they sacked all their reps !

If they've got a reputation for their H series cameras I reckon they've only got themselves to blame.  

Pete
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 12:38:57 PM by Streetshooter » Logged
rsmphoto
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« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2007, 01:00:49 PM »
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You have just proved my previous posting. Whether fact or fiction, this part of your post is truly  irresponsible for obvious reasons, and destroys any credibility you might have, at least with me.

Talk about a rumor mill....




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Just last week I found out why this has not happened, they sacked all their reps !

Pete
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josayeruk
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« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2007, 01:13:55 PM »
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JosX,

I think we are all succepable to this.  Somebody reports a problem and it is assumed that all of that brand have the same problem.

Given this, I probably pass through about 50 crew members a year, around the world and if any camera conversations come up, almost to a person, everyone mentions jams on the H system and everyone knows the pull the battery trick if you shoot non tethered.

Nothing is a buzz kill like a jammed camera, film, or digital, medium format or dslr and I've seen them all Jam except the original 1ds and the P-30.

When I moved to medium format with the Valeo then the Aptus I also suffered jams on the Contax, to the point I just assumed all non tetherred medium format jammed.  In fact it happened so often that I build a portable powerbook system and just shot everything tethered.

When I added the P-30 I actually was waiting for the same problems but after nearly 20,000 frames I've not had a single jam or had to pull the battery once.

Does that mean all P-30's on a Contax are error free?  Who knows, but it doesn't erase the fact that the H series does not have the most steller reputation "on the street".

If anything I think my lack of issues with the Contax is because it's a dead system.  No changing firmware for lenses or body doesn't require the db makers to continually try to write new firmware to keep up.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105466\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi James,

I think you are entirely right.

I imagine also as the P30 is a natural progression of the P45 and P25 any of the early bugs (if there was any! I only had a short demo) would have been ironed out.

Also as a user of an H you certainly get the feeling it is more 'electronic' than the Contax and therefore could be susecptible to a windows-esqe lock up but I like the feel and handling of the H over the Contax.  Just my opinion of course!  The Contax is also a really well thought out system.

Suffice to say though since the end of Nov 2006 and I haven't had any lock ups and I consider it to be as stable as any other platform.

Thanks for the intelligent response.

Jo S.x
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pss
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« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2007, 01:43:48 PM »
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I'm sorry but this is another stupid statement...

Everybody I have talked to about this confirms it...Huh

Well you didn't talk to me obviously... or listen to what other happy Imacon / Hasselblad users have said even on this forum - hcubell for one.

Phase, Leaf, Sinar, Imacon, Hasselblad... have all had their fair share of problems.  If all the manufacturers apart from Phase are so terrible then why are they successful companies still in business?

Sinar, Leaf and Hasselblad all have huge wealthy experienced companies behind them.  Would they be so thick to invest in dead ducks with rubbish products nobody buys?

I am sure Yaya, Thierry will concur.

If you don't like Hasselblad - that ok - just flaming it at every opportunity is boring me.

Jo S. x
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ysoyeruk, whoever you are....
i am simply stating that everybody I KNOW personally with any experience with the hass H system has confirmed......and you have as well actually...that the H system has had problems with the battery....and it so seems it still does.....if one of the biggest rental houses in LA warns me about the problems i will be having when i rent an H?.......not sure in which way that is a stupid statement...james agrees with it and you say he is right, so why do you call me stupid?

i am the first one to agree (if you would read my posts you would know) that EVERY systems has pros and cons....i happen to use several different systems and backs and share my experiences....good or bad....it is not my fault that MY bad experiences are pretty much all centered around Hass products....

i don't LIKE or NOT LIKE any brand, i could not care less...what i care about is what works and what does not work for me...these are the experiences i share....i am glad you have different experiences with your hass equipment...if everybody had the same ones i had, hass would not be alive anymore.....

i would report on problems with my mamiyas, rollei, leaf, phase or canons but i don't have or had any problems with any of them....

i am not attacking you, so please don't make this personal...if you like you can contact me, have all my info for anyone to see (including email, addr and phone#) ....
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RicAgu
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« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2007, 02:25:58 PM »
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The reality of photography in the coming years with digital is that we will have to deal with some electronics and software issues.

We have the same problems with our Mac's and don't get me started on the problems you will have using a PC.

In the film days i had a Contax 645 and did like it.  Although i did have a lot of shutter and electronics problems with my two bodies that were constantly going back to Contax for repair.  i have talked to James about this and he has not had any problems with his. (GREAT FOR HIM).  I love the quality of the lens but hated the polaroid back, the darkslide, the way it would eat through batteries and the darkness of the Prism.  For me it didn't work as well.

I sold a huge Contax set up in winter of 05 and got a H1 system with a P25.  I have shot a healthy amount of files and never had a problem with the Phase.  The H1 had maybe two freezes in two years and it was more due to me using the battery to its limit.  I would keep shooting while it gave me a battery warning and I would simply flip out the batteries.  No problem after that.

I had an Aptus 75 and had too many problems with it.  Tried a Hassy CF and although it was great it was too complicated for me with software, shims and plates.  Never tried the Sinar so I can't speak of it and settled on the P45.  I have not had one problem with the Phase backs, software or the H1 bodies.  I keep informed on software updates to make sure I am up to date.

For people that live in far flung areas it makes it tough for software updates and Hasselblad should really make it available through some USB adapter plug to the H1/H2.  Through the H3D I believe it is all through the back connection.  But there are still a lot of us shooting H1/2 and will continue this and I feel abadoned by a company shooters have relied on for over 40 years.

I have not tried this but I hear the new plate to use the 645AFDII mounted Phase backs to the RZ works wonderfully.  This seems like an ideal situation.  You get a great new 645AFDII set up and a used RZ set and you have two great systems to use between.

I used RZ and Contax in the old days.  So the AFD to RZ is not a huge jump. You have a better lens selection with the Contax especially with the Hassy FE lenses.  But that is a choice you have to get into and make.

Best of luck.
 
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pss
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« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2007, 04:57:15 PM »
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The reality of photography in the coming years with digital is that we will have to deal with some electronics and software issues.

We have the same problems with our Mac's and don't get me started on the problems you will have using a PC.

In the film days i had a Contax 645 and did like it.  Although i did have a lot of shutter and electronics problems with my two bodies that were constantly going back to Contax for repair.  i have talked to James about this and he has not had any problems with his. (GREAT FOR HIM).  I love the quality of the lens but hated the polaroid back, the darkslide, the way it would eat through batteries and the darkness of the Prism.  For me it didn't work as well.

I sold a huge Contax set up in winter of 05 and got a H1 system with a P25.  I have shot a healthy amount of files and never had a problem with the Phase.  The H1 had maybe two freezes in two years and it was more due to me using the battery to its limit.  I would keep shooting while it gave me a battery warning and I would simply flip out the batteries.  No problem after that.

I had an Aptus 75 and had too many problems with it.  Tried a Hassy CF and although it was great it was too complicated for me with software, shims and plates.  Never tried the Sinar so I can't speak of it and settled on the P45.  I have not had one problem with the Phase backs, software or the H1 bodies.  I keep informed on software updates to make sure I am up to date.

For people that live in far flung areas it makes it tough for software updates and Hasselblad should really make it available through some USB adapter plug to the H1/H2.  Through the H3D I believe it is all through the back connection.  But there are still a lot of us shooting H1/2 and will continue this and I feel abadoned by a company shooters have relied on for over 40 years.

I have not tried this but I hear the new plate to use the 645AFDII mounted Phase backs to the RZ works wonderfully.  This seems like an ideal situation.  You get a great new 645AFDII set up and a used RZ set and you have two great systems to use between.

I used RZ and Contax in the old days.  So the AFD to RZ is not a huge jump. You have a better lens selection with the Contax especially with the Hassy FE lenses.  But that is a choice you have to get into and make.

Best of luck.
 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105515\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i had a leaf valeo and had no problems with it (other then the "normal bluetooth connection drop")....
switched to phase after checking out every system.....

i now use a mamiya 645afdII and RZIID.....best of both worlds....i actually use the RZ now mostly.....a pleasure to focus....back rotates, no cables, everything just works......looked at the contax, went with mamiya because i had used it before...now i can switch the back between a handheld af "P&S" with af zoom and a studio workhorse.....

i use the RZ more and more because i can actually shoot slower speeds with the RZ....holding the camera in front of the body, looking down lets me hold it more steady....works for me...
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Mark_Tucker
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« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2007, 09:26:32 AM »
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Hi there,

as I said in my December post, when I bought my H3D-22 I immediately experienced problems with the camera. Usually I would receive the error mesages like: restart the back, reattach lens, lens problems...) after just few exposures.

I understand your frustration. I will say, none of these cameras is really perfect. Although, honestly, the most hassle free has been the 1ds2.

I owned the H1D, and I got error messages with that, and had cord issues with that ImageBank. Sent that back; it was certainly not ready for prime time.

Then bought the H1 with P25, and continued onward with error messages and just overall strange behavior. Sold that. I think most of the issues with that combo was the H1; not the P25. I've found Phase to be pretty darn reliable and solid.

Now, reluctantly, I bought the Contax and P45, and I've not had ONE error message or lockup with it. When I first moved out of Canon and into MF, I thought that for sure, the H series was "the way of the future" and that Contax was way out of date. But in reality it's quite the opposite. Like James says, there's not much to go wrong with the Contax - it just works. Day in and day out. Same with the P45 (and a borrowed P30).

I do not know about the H3D. I have not shot it. But overall, I'm just afraid of the H series now. Nothing more frustrating that have that thing lock up in the midst of a pressure job. "Reattach magazine", huh? Very frustrating. I just think the camera might be trying to do too many things at once and it's just not up to the task.

I've never been more surprised at the solid performance of the Contax. So simple, and so Old School, but it rocks. You look down, you know what your settings are, by the knobs -- not by some buried set of Menus, as in the H.

Yet, beyond all this, I wish the best for all these companies, including Hasselblad. My fear is that the entire universe is heading toward a 5D mentality, and nothing would be worse than be forced to shoot a vertical job, with a 24x36 proportion. We need Medium Format to survive. The villain here -- the one to be worried about -- is not Phase, or Hasselblad, or Leaf -- it's Canon.

MT, http://www.marktucker.com
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Blair Bunting
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« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2007, 10:45:50 AM »
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The villain here -- the one to be worried about -- is not Phase, or Hasselblad, or Leaf -- it's Canon.

MT, http://www.marktucker.com
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So true.

In some respects I still think Canon might be hurting their agenda with MF/studio shooters though.  I was set to pick up a couple of the new bodies when I heard that it was to be an upgrade to the 1Ds series but then they just released another sports shooter.  

In regards to the Contax, I love the camera, but why did it have to have a 1/125 x-sync?
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Mark_Tucker
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« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2007, 11:04:44 AM »
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In regards to the Contax, I love the camera, but why did it have to have a 1/125 x-sync?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105657\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Contax and Mamiya 645 are both focal-plane shutter designs. The H is a leaf-shutter design. Everything is a tradeoff. With the Contax or Mamiya, you can mount third party shutterless, (or homemade) lenses, onto the bodies, because the shutter is inside the body. With the H series, you're stuck with their lenses, or else, you use their CF adaptor thing.

I have a Hasselblad 110f2 for my Contax, and a MammyCam too, which is an old timey Mamiya 80mm f1.9 lens, rigged up to a body cap.

Given the choice, I'd much prefer the focal plane body, but that's just my style. If I was a studio guy, shooting strobe all the time, especially outside, I might be forced to choose the H series.

Again, it's about recognizing how you're going to use the tool, and then choosing the proper tool based on that.
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« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2007, 12:00:25 PM »
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The Contax and Mamiya 645 are both focal-plane shutter designs. The H is a leaf-shutter design. Everything is a tradeoff. With the Contax or Mamiya, you can mount third party shutterless, (or homemade) lenses, onto the bodies, because the shutter is inside the body. With the H series, you're stuck with their lenses, or else, you use their CF adaptor thing.

I have a Hasselblad 110f2 for my Contax, and a MammyCam too, which is an old timey Mamiya 80mm f1.9 lens, rigged up to a body cap.

Given the choice, I'd much prefer the focal plane body, but that's just my style. If I was a studio guy, shooting strobe all the time, especially outside, I might be forced to choose the H series.

Again, it's about recognizing how you're going to use the tool, and then choosing the proper tool based on that.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105660\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
And add to that point, that the leaf shutter although has faster X-sync, they do not go as fast as focal plane shutter for regular shooting, such as Contax, go all the way to 1/4000s vs H system can only goes to 1/800s.
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« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2007, 12:32:31 PM »
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Given the choice, I'd much prefer the focal plane body, but that's just my style. If I was a studio guy, shooting strobe all the time, especially outside, I might be forced to choose the H series

...or the Rollei, with 1/1000 flash sync
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« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2007, 12:43:56 PM »
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...or the Rollei, with 1/1000 flash sync
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You young guys have a lot more courage than I do. I've been burned in the past, by buying too close to the bleeding edge. Personally, that Rollei/Leaf/Sinar/Whatever is not even on the radar screen for me, until it's been out for at least a year, shipping in quantity, and developing a trustable track record.

Promises are promises, and claims are claims, but they don't matter one bit when you're standing there in a high pressure job, and the camera goes down with no explanation. That Rollei thing, to me, is just The Ultimate Dentist/Doctor Camera, until it's been around for a while, and proven that it's reliable. And that is, if anyone can afford it in the beginning. In addition to the lenses. When budgets are getting tighter, and stock begins to own the world, and you can buy a new 5D for $1800 that does 90% of the jobs out there, I think these high-end companies are going to need to really blow it out of the water if they are to succeed.

Proceed with caution, and get it in writing, and get a written guarantee that the camera is fully refundable if it doesn't perform up to their Copywriter's bold claims. Buyer beware.
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« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2007, 01:00:23 PM »
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Promises are promises, and claims are claims, but they don't matter one bit when you're standing there in a high pressure job, and the camera goes down with no explanation. That Rollei thing, to me, is just The Ultimate Dentist/Doctor Camera, until it's been around for a while, and proven that it's reliable.

Mark I was referring to the Rollei system, not the Hy6 specifically. I am using a 6008AF with Sinarback right now and enjoy 1/1000th flash sync today. Anyway the flash sync is due to the lenses and they are well and truly known to work.
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