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Author Topic: Hy6 prismfinder designet to fit sensor size?  (Read 21710 times)
godtfred
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« Reply #80 on: March 13, 2007, 10:20:35 AM »
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...of course the ususal people jumped on him , even quoting has literature and it turns he is right!
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Not exacly correct in my view. I stated that the 28mm does not crop the image circle on the kodak 22 and 39 chips, and thus the 1.1 crop factor should not be used. And I am right in this respect, as long as you compare the H3D 48mm system to f.example a 35mm system, and not compare a FF 645 system to a 35mm system.

If you choose to convert the much debated hasselblad 48mm system to a 645, then you get the 1.1 conversion factor.

I must admit I was slightly confused on this topic. But I'm starting to see why hasselblad claims that they have a FF 48mm system, as the only difference is the mirror box which is slightly larger to accomodate the use of 645 film backs. Of course this system only has one lens that is true to its 48mm promise, as well as only one viewfinder and two digital backs (would probably do better with two lenses and one digital back         )

Anyways, its not that important, the 28mm gives the same FOV as a 31mm when being used on a 645 system (which it can't...)

I find I'm going to use diagonal FOV to talk about coverage from now on, everything is so confusing in the multitude of marketing speak, that I feel FOV numbers are something I can relate to  

-axel
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Axel Bauer
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eronald
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« Reply #81 on: March 13, 2007, 11:04:55 AM »
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Hi,

Does anyone know if the Hy6/Aif prism finder will come in a crop version? E.g designed for the 48x38mm size sensor found in for instance the Leaf Aptus 75 sensor.

In similar way as the H3D, where what you see is what you capture.

Best Regards,

Rune Werner Molnes
www.runemolnes.com
- Photographer -
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105447\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Now, that would be a smart move. I applaud it. Let me map it out in detail for Sinar/Leaf/Rollei:

1. * REAL VALUE* Stick a mask and a magnifier inside the prism finder so that people can actually see what they're doing when shooting digital 36x48 mm with the 56w56mm Hy6.

2. *PERCEIVED VALUE A* Explain to everybody that thanks to an impressive new technology you have transformed your previous 80mm design into a short tele which can now be accurately focused with the new viewfinder and is ideal for portraits ON THE FULL FRAME.  And that this new technology allows the center "sweet spot" of the lens to be used for their sweet models.

3. *PERCEIVED VALUE B* Stick a label on it that says "Full-Frame Digital", this impresses the hell out of the buyers of photo equipment.

4 *LOCK-IN* Put a dongle inside the body so that it won't work when bigger sensor comes out. Make sure very one knows that you have the only camera in the world which can take pictures with your "special portrait" lenses.


Ok, ok, here on this forum we don't think points 2,3,4 are necessary. But that may be why people here write Photographer or PhD after their name, rather than CEO.
A certain company has realized that Step 1 is actually necessary  and that steps 2,3,4 rake in the money. What is interesting is that they are the only ones who did Step 1 and actually are selling the result in shops.

I have big respect for Sinar , Leaf and Rollei tech expertise and for Leaf's salesmanship. But marketing and channel is another skill altogether, and Hasselblad is running circles around them. Applause where it's due.

Edmund
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 05:44:35 PM by eronald » Logged
josayeruk
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« Reply #82 on: March 13, 2007, 11:55:46 AM »
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Not exacly correct in my view. I stated that the 28mm does not crop the image circle on the kodak 22 and 39 chips, and thus the 1.1 crop factor should not be used. And I am right in this respect, as long as you compare the H3D 48mm system to f.example a 35mm system, and not compare a FF 645 system to a 35mm system.

If you choose to convert the much debated hasselblad 48mm system to a 645, then you get the 1.1 conversion factor.

I must admit I was slightly confused on this topic. But I'm starting to see why hasselblad claims that they have a FF 48mm system, as the only difference is the mirror box which is slightly larger to accomodate the use of 645 film backs. Of course this system only has one lens that is true to its 48mm promise, as well as only one viewfinder and two digital backs (would probably do better with two lenses and one digital back         )

Anyways, its not that important, the 28mm gives the same FOV as a 31mm when being used on a 645 system (which it can't...)

I find I'm going to use diagonal FOV to talk about coverage from now on, everything is so confusing in the multitude of marketing speak, that I feel FOV numbers are something I can relate to   

-axel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106434\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yep. That is the point I was trying to make but didn't put it across so well!

Thanks!  
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hcubell
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« Reply #83 on: March 13, 2007, 12:17:40 PM »
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did you even read what i wrote? i said nothing negative abut hass lenses....
and actually, because you mentioned it....i don't like hass lenses.....the 80mm is fine, i have no problems with it...it is fine, not great (which for the money it should be) and the zoom is fine optically, only very slightly better then my 10 year old mamiya zoom which weighs a fraction and cost even less....i was never very happy about my hass V lenses either (40, 80, 120)...fine, but nothing to write home about...the only good one was the 38 on the hass wide body....nice lens....these are all my personal experiences and i am sharing them just like you do....
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You don't like the Hasselblad H body. You don't like the Hasselblad lenses. You don't like the Hasselblad digital backs. Let me guess. You really don't like the lens caps either.
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James Russell
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« Reply #84 on: March 13, 2007, 12:20:51 PM »
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You don't like the Hasselblad H body. You don't like the Hasselblad lenses. You don't like the Hasselblad digital backs. Let me guess. You really don't like the lens caps either.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106469\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


You left out the color.

JR
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #85 on: March 13, 2007, 12:23:53 PM »
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You left out the color.

JR
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and the plastic bit on the side that gets lost
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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josayeruk
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« Reply #86 on: March 13, 2007, 12:56:12 PM »
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and the plastic bit on the side that gets lost
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I've got two spare ones if you want one.  
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #87 on: March 13, 2007, 01:01:43 PM »
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I've got two spare ones if you want one.   
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[a href=\"http://www.gaffertape.com/show_category.asp?cid=602]http://www.gaffertape.com/show_category.asp?cid=602[/url]
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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josayeruk
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« Reply #88 on: March 13, 2007, 01:09:57 PM »
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http://www.gaffertape.com/show_category.asp?cid=602
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106486\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

 

 
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hcubell
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« Reply #89 on: March 13, 2007, 01:27:07 PM »
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You left out the color.

JR
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That could be a deal killer with the H3D. I am thinking that instead of the Hassy H3D,  it may make more sense to pick up a Hy6 and get a changing bag to rotate the back on location.
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pss
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« Reply #90 on: March 13, 2007, 01:33:35 PM »
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You don't like the Hasselblad H body. You don't like the Hasselblad lenses. You don't like the Hasselblad digital backs. Let me guess. You really don't like the lens caps either.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106469\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

how did you guess?
seriously...i could not care less what brand anything is...just so happens i have had nothing but bad experiences with hasselblad and i don't see why i should not share them....
the first thing everybody says about mamiya is that the body and lenses feel plasticey.....i am not in any way offended by it nor would i go into detail about how the mamiyas are built and why called them plasticey is stupid.....if that is the way someone FEELS, that there is no way to argue one way or another....

but saying that i am simply a hasselblad hater and i have some kind of personal vendetta agains them is just ridiculous....i have nothing to gain from hasselblads loss and i don't think what is say here has any impact on their sales...but maybe they are reading and maybe they might look at a couple of things that come up here....and i am obviously not the only one raising issues here....

and yes james i don't like the color.....samys LA had a black (Fuji) model and i looked at it....i like the look much better.....also reminded me about how excited i was when the H system was announced.....i had the 680, 690, 645 fujis and loved them....so when everybody was whining about hass's move to switch to fuji glass, i was really excited....the first pics i saw where the black ones and i loved the way the camera looked.....and then i held it for the first time.....boy was i disappointed.....
hmm maybe i do have a personal vendetta against it....how something i was looking forward to could turn out to be such a disappointment?  
maybe i should not have gotten so excited about the Hy6? it will be just the same?
of course i am kidding...these are cameras...just tools...i use them more then anything else....they have to be an extention of my hand and eye.....so there is an emotional attachment but it comes with relyability and being able to count on it.....
i still can't wait to try the Hy6 but it will be at least 18 months before i would even consider using one day by day as my main system.....
i am also excited about the iphone....but i also know that version 2 or 3 will be the real killer....still might buy version 1 and bitch about it though.....
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eronald
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« Reply #91 on: March 13, 2007, 05:39:44 PM »
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Edmund
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 05:43:06 PM by eronald » Logged
BJL
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« Reply #92 on: March 14, 2007, 10:22:01 AM »
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Wouldn't it help to use angles when describing Field Of View? At least in discussions amongst people who are serious enough about photography to be considering digital medium format. After all, we correctly refer to angles in the name "wide angle lenses".

In the case of lenses for use with several film/sensor formats, several angles could be stated easily enough.

Then we could avoid this confusion about whether changing the sensor causes a change in focal length!

For example, a lens of f=28mm has diagonal angular FOV
- 103 with the 70mm diagonal of 645 format
- 94 with the roughly 60mm diagonal of largest DMF sensors
- 89 with the 55mm diagonal of the 33x44mm sensors.
A bit of imprecision is OK since focal lengths vary a bit from the stated number anyway.

For comparison, the classic normal lens of focal length equal format diagonal has angular FOV of 53, but most normals are instead a bit under 50:
- 47 with f=80mm in 645 film format
- 47 with f=50mm in 35mm film format
- 42 with f=50mm and 35mm film format cropped for an 8"x10", 11"x14" or 16"x20" print.
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eronald
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« Reply #93 on: March 14, 2007, 03:59:13 PM »
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Wouldn't it help to use angles when describing Field Of View?
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 yes, yes, we're getting sowewhere.

Edmund
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