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Author Topic: HP DreamColor Technologies?  (Read 8134 times)
A. Andrew Gonzalez
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« on: March 08, 2007, 05:12:10 PM »
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Announced today at PMA

http://h30267.www3.hp.com/country/us/en/fe...?pageseq=726279

http://h30267.www3.hp.com/country/us/en/dr...?pageseq=726280

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/dreamcolor/
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A. Andrew Gonzalez
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A. Andrew Gonzalez
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2007, 05:32:39 PM »
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Ok. Just found out it the new HP Designjet Z3100ps GP ($7495) is the first product to use DreamColor.
The free HP ProPrint Plug-in is set to release April 23rd

"First products to feature HP DreamColor Technologies

The HP Designjet Z3100ps GP Photo Printer, one of the first products to use DreamColor, is the latest addition to the HP Designjet Z Photo Printer Series, which was recognized yesterday with a 2007 DIMA Innovative Digital Product Award.

Offering the industry’s only built-in spectrophotometer for improved color management, the printer also has an embedded Adobe PS3/PDF RIP, which simplifies workflow by allowing for optimum networkability. The HP Advanced Profiling Solution that comes in the box provides rigorous color profiling and includes a monitor calibrator, enabling users to accurately print their creative visions easily.

HP DreamColor is also offered in the HP Designjet Z Photo Printer series, the HP Indigo press 5000, the HP Indigo press ws4500 and the HP Photosmart Pro B9180 Photo Printer. "



http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=919
"What are the benefits of the new HP Designjet Z3100ps GP photo Printer:

Embedded Adobe PS/PDF RIP for PS/PDF connectivity, for Mac and Win
PS driver to more optimum networkability
PS color management
Job submission through the Embedded Web Server: Submit PS, PDF, TIFF, HPGL/2 files directly to the printer without needing a driver, just using Internet Explorer
CMYK path: pre-press emulations from the driver and Pantone certification
Adv. Profiling Solution: Create professional RGB and CMYK profiles for the medias that you use, edit and fine tune those profiles to adjust to your specific needs , such as non-standard lighting conditions
Monitor calibrator: Calibrate your monitor to have the closest colors between your printer and your monitor
Permanent Storage (11GB) and Queue (10gb):  store and reprint files whenever you need, and nesting of files to save paper and money."
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A. Andrew Gonzalez
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Kirk Gittings
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2007, 05:33:43 PM »
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FWIW,

What would impress me is products that come off the line functioning as advertised. With all the issues with the new HP Printers (and other companies too). I think they ought to spend more time beta testing their products before releasing them. We consumer have become the defacto "product testing" division for many companies at our expense and frankly it  is getting old.
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Thanks,
Kirk

Kirk Gittings
Architecture and Landscape Photography
WWW.GITTINGSPHOTO.COM

LIGHT+SPACE+STRUCTURE (blog)
A. Andrew Gonzalez
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2007, 05:47:44 PM »
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I'm in the position of waiting to see if HP is seriously committed to working out solutions to these problems. I need to upgrade very soon. Some poster comments are a bit positive regarding HP's commitment to getting it right.

The Advance Profiling Solution doesn't look like it's worth it. Only a few comments indicate that it doesn't offer much in greater color accuracy or gamut.

Andrew
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 05:48:54 PM by A. Andrew Gonzalez » Logged

A. Andrew Gonzalez
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adiallo
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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2007, 09:37:19 PM »
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Good point, Kirk. And as you mentioned, this is not an HP-exclusive issue. Computers, software, you name it, the aim is to get the product in consumers' hands ASAP. Unfortunately someone needs to save us from ourselves. A long time ago I was given the advice to never buy a v1.0 of anything without waiting 6 months for the kinks to be worked out. I never have regrets when I follow this advice, and sometimes have them when I ignore this advice.
I happen to like the Z3100 and when I took delivery, did so with the expectation that it would be a copule (at least) of months before I had it dialed in and ready for actual client production. This was before any posts about gamut, etc. I just know that the interaction of printer hardware and software is complex and takes time and lots of testing to master to my (and my clients') satisfaction. I remember one early post (on this board I think) from someone who wanted to know the per print cost of the HP because they were bidding for a large printing job and planned on buying the printer once the bid was accepted.
That to me is insane, but to each his own I guess. With digital photography, we've got complex tools to do something that not too long ago was relatively simple. I'm no Luddite. I love the level of control we have gained. But for those times when we can't afford to be on the bleeding edge we just have to be content to wait on the sidelines while things get sorted out. There will always be a group of guinea pigs ready to sacrifice on our behalf  .
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marty m
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2007, 11:48:29 PM »
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Quote
The Advance Profiling Solution doesn't look like it's worth it. Only a few comments indicate that it doesn't offer much in greater color accuracy or gamut.

Andrew
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105544\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I posted a question and asked if there is a difference between the APS and standard driver.  No responses.

So I sent private notes directly to everyone who indicated that they had APS.  They all reported that it made a noticeable difference.

Whether the difference is worth $800 is harder to judge.  A small difference to one man will be a giant leap forward to another.

Nonetheless, all reports were positive, and no one said that it made little or no difference.
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marty m
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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2007, 11:56:33 PM »
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One more quick comment.  It is profoundly ironic, after all of the problems reported with regards to this printer, that HP now claims they have Dream Color.

HP isn't just dreaming.  They're hallucinating.  They're on drugs.

Or as the other posting wondered, are they are on crack?

They probably are in a dream state, from smelling ink fumes, as they try to figure out the correct mix of ink in firmware to fix their problems.
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A. Andrew Gonzalez
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2007, 12:33:51 AM »
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I posted a question and asked if there is a difference between the APS and standard driver.  No responses.

So I sent private notes directly to everyone who indicated that they had APS.  They all reported that it made a noticeable difference.

Whether the difference is worth $800 is harder to judge.  A small difference to one man will be a giant leap forward to another.

Nonetheless, all reports were positive, and no one said that it made little or no difference.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105593\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks for the clarification.
Still trying to figure if APS or something like Printfix Pro would be a better solution for me.....Very interested in comparisons

Andrew
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A. Andrew Gonzalez
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Panascape
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2007, 12:44:14 AM »
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Eye one proof will give you the same device and more functionality for the same money. I have found that the PrintFix Pro also gives good results.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 12:45:01 AM by Panascape » Logged
marty m
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« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2007, 06:34:46 AM »
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Eye one proof will give you the same device and more functionality for the same money. I have found that the PrintFix Pro also gives good results.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105597\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But can Eye One work with the on-board spectro?  If not, you are defeating the purpose of the on-board spectro, and one of the primary reasons to buy the Z3100
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Panascape
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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2007, 06:42:04 AM »
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The Eye one package doesn't work with the onboard spectro but includes the spectro in the cost.

Basicaly we are paying the same for the APS without the spectro which we already paid for in the printer as we would for the Eye One package which is fully features unlike the APS.  HP's offering makes it more attractive to not use the onboard spectro.
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Roscolo
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« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2007, 12:42:33 PM »
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I remember one early post (on this board I think) from someone who wanted to know the per print cost of the HP because they were bidding for a large printing job and planned on buying the printer once the bid was accepted.
That to me is insane, but to each his own I guess.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105580\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I inquired about the per print cost because that one printing job would pay for the new z3100. I am almost never an "early adopter." This would have been a rare exception.

No, I did not purchase the z3100 and I'm so glad I didn't now...this looks like a nightmare situation for HP, not to mention the users. I keep reading about people downloading new ICC profiles from HP....wasn't that THE selling point of the z3100 that with the built in spectro and profiling system, the printer is supposed to be capapble of the most accurate color ever?

So, no, enough problems were evident when I was researching that I decided not to buy the printer. I took the printing job on and just did the photography and got the images ready for printing and outsourced it. Made almost as much money without any of the hassle and headache of the z3100...nothing insane about that.

Still looking for a new printer, however. Right now my hopes are pinned to Canon's new 24" printer - ipf6000 - or HP somehow miraculously fixing the problems with the z3100. It is obvious from all the problems posted here that this printer was released "not ready for prime time," not for professional use anyway.
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filip baraka
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« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2007, 08:42:58 PM »
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The Eye one package doesn't work with the onboard spectro but includes the spectro in the cost.

Basicaly we are paying the same for the APS without the spectro which we already paid for in the printer as we would for the Eye One package which is fully features unlike the APS.  HP's offering makes it more attractive to not use the onboard spectro.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105626\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


So that 800$ is only a software upgrade?
Smells like rip off, with that in mind i would love to see a version without spectro so I can choose my own and actually save money. Think im gona stick with ipf5000 for a bit longer;)
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Christopher
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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2007, 05:40:08 PM »
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So that 800$ is only a software upgrade?
Smells like rip off, with that in mind i would love to see a version without spectro so I can choose my own and actually save money. Think im gona stick with ipf5000 for a bit longer;)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105755\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

APS is a total rip off. Sorry but way to expensive for what you get.
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filip baraka
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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2007, 05:54:43 PM »
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APS is a total rip off. Sorry but way to expensive for what you get.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105938\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I know nothing of Z3100 but is standardbuiltincheapestprice software good enough for calibrating this printer?
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adiallo
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« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2007, 10:18:26 PM »
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So, no, enough problems were evident when I was researching that I decided not to buy the printer. I took the printing job on and just did the photography and got the images ready for printing and outsourced it. Made almost as much money without any of the hassle and headache of the z3100...nothing insane about that.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=105678\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Roscolo,
My apologies for singling out your post. I wasn't even sure I had read it on this board. I was just trying to emphasize the point that when we need a tool for time critical work (ie it has to work without unexpected issues) it is best to go with a technology that has a track record longer than a month. I'm glad you got the job out and now have time to see how things shake out, whichever printer you ultimately decide to go with.
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neil snape
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2007, 08:45:02 AM »
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The price is different for APS in different countries.
It is an adapted version of Profile Maker 5.07 with rgb, CMYK profiling some illum white point settings, and an on the fly editor somewhere between i1 Match and PEditor.
It provides fully automatic profiling with an excellent UI. The results are the same as ProfileMaker. So either you love , or hate Profile Maker , but the results are there. The profiles print better from APS on photo media, and are equal to my out of printer i1 and PM 5 profiles.
If you like making out of printer profiles that is your option. Many will like the fully integrated and automatic features.
As for a version without a spectro> the spectro is used for calibration and consistency reasons, and for scalability towards very high-end rips like GMG. The SDK is out there for other profilers so I can't tell you who will make versions for the Z but it is entirely up to developers to do so.
Don't forget that the possibility to run control strips is also a goal of the spectro> that too is open to developers.

Oh the APS is not a software upgrade. It is a stand alone application on the host computer.
Does the built in profiler do fine calibrations. Yes. Does it do nice profiles. Yes. Will a profiler like PM or Monaco, ColorSavvy,PrintOpen, etc  do better? Probably.
Is APS too expensive? For some yes. Others no. You get an integrated profiling solution , an i1D2 colorimeter, monitor calibration and profiler, adapted version of Profile Maker, and a decent profile editor.
Colorvison products will fetch you much more with their suite for what 500$ but are not yet run through the printer so you'll have to do it all by hand.
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filip baraka
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2007, 04:00:41 PM »
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Oh the APS is not a software upgrade. It is a stand alone application on the host computer.
Does the built in profiler do fine calibrations. Yes. Does it do nice profiles. Yes. Will a profiler like PM or Monaco, ColorSavvy,PrintOpen, etc  do better? Probably.
Is APS too expensive? For some yes. Others no. You get an integrated profiling solution , an i1D2 colorimeter, monitor calibration and profiler, adapted version of Profile Maker, and a decent profile editor.
Colorvison products will fetch you much more with their suite for what 500$ but are not yet run through the printer so you'll have to do it all by hand.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106242\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Neil thanks for clarification, and I now think that with colorimeter and all the extra apps included price is fair, previously i thought that price is only for software upgrade

Thanks
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neil snape
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2007, 04:19:49 PM »
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Admittedly , the information on new products is often not transmitted in the right way.
They should review their communication on APS, and when they launch products like the PS version make it clear what it is , who it's for and who it's not for.
I still am trying to make marketing people more involved in making it clear to us photographers what it is exactly they are offering.
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