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Author Topic: Testing the waters  (Read 9401 times)
Ray
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« on: March 15, 2007, 02:48:26 AM »
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One characteristic of Michael's photos is often a tendency towards sheer simplicity. Some of Michael's images look almost like cut-outs; dense black shadows in contrast with simple, lighter shapes.

When I came across the following image (Bridge is set to automatic image adjustment), I was reminded of some of Michael's shots. I wondered if I should just leave it as it is, with Bridge auto adjustments, or try to bring out some detail in them there shadows.

I'm undecided. What do you think?

I've posted the ACR raw conversion window to show that these shadows are not exaggerated, followed by a processed image which attempts to bring out just the relevant detail in the shadows which I think might enhance the image. The image is not cropped.

[attachment=2094:attachment]  [attachment=2095:attachment]

For those who are into unpronouncable names, the shot was taken on route from Kagbeni to Muktinath somewhere in the middle of Nepal.
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jule
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2007, 05:13:06 PM »
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One characteristic of Michael's photos is often a tendency towards sheer simplicity. Some of Michael's images look almost like cut-outs; dense black shadows in contrast with simple, lighter shapes.

When I came across the following image (Bridge is set to automatic image adjustment), I was reminded of some of Michael's shots. I wondered if I should just leave it as it is, with Bridge auto adjustments, or try to bring out some detail in them there shadows.

I'm undecided. What do you think?

I've posted the ACR raw conversion window to show that these shadows are not exaggerated, followed by a processed image which attempts to bring out just the relevant detail in the shadows which I think might enhance the image. The image is not cropped.

[attachment=2094:attachment]  [attachment=2095:attachment]

For those who are into unpronouncable names, the shot was taken on route from Kagbeni to Muktinath somewhere in the middle of Nepal.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106741\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ray, I quite like being able to see more definition and colours in the left corner, but it looks a bit squished.

I was going to have a play with making your image even more simplified by darkening the bottom left corner totally and making a B&W, but your image size was a bit teentsie for me to try. Care to have a go?

Julie
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Ray
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2007, 08:43:02 PM »
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Ray, I quite like being able to see more definition and colours in the left corner, but it looks a bit squished.
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Hi! Jule,
Yes, it does look a bit squished. I've tried your idea of a B&W version. Removing the house was no problem. The problem was in bringing it out   . I've also cropped away what I thought was excessive sky and dark foreground to produce a more panoramic effect. I think there's an improvement here.

[attachment=2102:attachment]
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2007, 10:48:34 PM »
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The BW pano works for me. Now all the spaces and shapes come together really nicely. Good shot!

Eric
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Ray
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2007, 11:25:10 PM »
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The BW pano works for me. Now all the spaces and shapes come together really nicely. Good shot!

Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106911\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, Eric. You are now on my list for dinner invitations   .
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jule
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2007, 01:03:09 AM »
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Thanks, Eric. You are now on my list for dinner invitations   .
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..and me too  
Julie
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Ray
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2007, 01:52:54 AM »
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..and me too   
Julie
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Of course!  
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francois
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2007, 03:36:15 AM »
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Hi! Jule,
Yes, it does look a bit squished. I've tried your idea of a B&W version. Removing the house was no problem. The problem was in bringing it out  . I've also cropped away what I thought was excessive sky and dark foreground to produce a more panoramic effect. I think there's an improvement here.

[attachment=2102:attachment]
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Ray,
I was undecided for the first version you posted but this B/W version is a hit - at least for me.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 03:37:49 AM by francois » Logged

Francois
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2007, 09:09:18 AM »
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Thanks, Eric. You are now on my list for dinner invitations   .
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Can I bring Howie as a guest? That should keep the conversation lively!  
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jule
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2007, 04:09:26 PM »
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Can I bring Howie as a guest? That should keep the conversation lively!   
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and Jonathan... then even more lively.    By the way, Jonathan has been absent for a while. Hope he is ok.

Julie
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howiesmith
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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2007, 04:36:58 PM »
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Can I bring Howie as a guest? That should keep the conversation lively!   
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Thanks for thinking of me, but I'm going to be busy that night.  If I were there, I would take it easy on the veggies.  The ones from the garden may have used to test for soil toxicity.
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Ray
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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2007, 06:45:57 PM »
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Thanks for thinking of me, but I'm going to be busy that night.  If I were there, I would take it easy on the veggies.  The ones from the garden may have used to test for soil toxicity.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107084\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's right   . But I wouldn't present any veggies that had not grown well in a healthy and disease-free manner. If the soil is not right for any reason, plants struggle to survive and are more prone to attack from pests. A healthy looking veggie is a sure sign the soil is not toxic.
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Ray
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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2007, 11:26:43 PM »
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and Jonathan... then even more lively.    By the way, Jonathan has been absent for a while. Hope he is ok.

Julie
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He's in a dangerous profession for sure. However, a check on his web site at [a href=\"http://visual-vacations.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2&start=120]http://visual-vacations.com/forums/viewtop...p?t=2&start=120[/url] reveals he was OK on Feb 2nd when he states he's been busy on vehicle maintenance and laments the fact that the dining room shows nothing but Sesame Street programs on TV.

Hope his absense on LL has nothing to do with anything that I've said, and that no accident has befallen him.
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howiesmith
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2007, 04:39:05 PM »
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... .  If the soil is not right for any reason, plants struggle to survive and are more prone to attack from pests. A healthy looking veggie is a sure sign the soil is not toxic.
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Maybe true.  But first you have to assume that veggies are affrcted by the same chemcials as humans and in the same concentrations.  Because Ray doesn't know what chemicals are involved other than "b&w chemicals and selenium toner," it may be hard to say with certainty.

Oleander, a common plant, is toxic to humans but not to many plants, especially oleanders.  Snake venom may kill a horse but not the snake.

I would simply dispose of the photo chemicals as suggested by the manufacturer.
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2007, 07:45:25 PM »
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I would simply dispose of the photo chemicals as suggested by the manufacturer.
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Howie,

You have suggested this several times now, so I finally went into my darkroom (which functions now primarily as a museum to my pre-digital life) to check out the labels on the likeliest toxic chemicals I could find. I no longer have Potassium Fericyanide around, because I took that to a toxic chemicals collection sit a few years ago. But I still have the usual darkroom suspects: developers, stop bath, fixer, and selenium toner. Much to my surprise, the disposal instructions on those labels were exactly the same as on a bottle of orange juice -- namely, none at all!

Kodak Professional Selenium Toner has lots of warnings about misuse ("Harmful if absorbed through skin or swallowed," "Keep out of reach of children," "Call a physician or poison control center immediately," etc.) but not a word about disposal.

Googling on "kodak selenium toner disposal procedures" brought a bit more information, including a pdf available from Kodak
 ( [a href=\"http://www.kodak.com/global/en/corp/environment/kes/pubs/pdfs/j300.pdf]http://www.kodak.com/global/en/corp/enviro...s/pdfs/j300.pdf[/url]] )
which does suggest procedures for amateur photographers. A much over-simplified summary is that most ordinary photographic chemicals are best disposed of through a municipal sewer system, in highly dilute state. The principal exception is selenium toner, which should be taken to a household hazardous waste collection site (even the empty container!). And, as one might guess, most of these chemicals should not be put into a septic system.

I couldn't find anything in the Kodak pamphlet about burying the chemicals in a neighbor's yard and growing tomatoes on them (but, of course, that's what I do with all my spent nuclear rods.     )

This pamphlet still doesn't address the question of what to do with dilute selenium toner after you use it. For example, should you bottle all your washe water (after toning) and take it to a household hazardous waste collection site? Or maybe send half of it to you and the other half to Ray and see what happens.    

I'm even a little more glad I've moved to digital. Of course, there are all those toxic computer parts to be disposed of, too, so I guess you can't win.

Eric
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 07:52:16 PM by EricM » Logged

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Ray
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2007, 08:01:57 PM »
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Maybe true.  But first you have to assume that veggies are affrcted by the same chemcials as humans and in the same concentrations.  Because Ray doesn't know what chemicals are involved other than "b&w chemicals and selenium toner," it may be hard to say with certainty.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107350\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't require certainty in life because I know I can never get it. I deal with balances of probability based upon whatever knowledge I think is likely to be true. Most of us (perhaps we could even say all of us) are subject to some degree of irrational fear.

We had a poll recently in a township close to where I live to give the people the choice of whether to go ahead with a water recycling plant. The subject was hotly debated for a few weeks before polling day. Despite this township being desperately short of water; despite the alternatives to water recycling costing much more; despite assurances from scientists and engineers that the recycled water would be purer than the processed water they were already drinking; the people voted against the recycling proposal. Irrationality won the day.

I see no rationality in your argument that suggests a healthy tomato grown in the manner I suggest would pose a health risk. The plants that we have chosen over the years to eat, have been chosen because they are tasty and nutritious.

On the other hand, I don't actually know if it would be possible to grow a healthy tomato in a pit of compost that had been a receptacle for diluted darkroom waste, or what period of time might be required for natural rehabilitation of the pit before tomatoes might grow healthily there. I'm merely proposing this as a yardstick for everything being okay.

Since I'm not at all likely to find out because I don't have a darkroom, this conversation is entirely hypothetical. However, if I were into darkroom processing at my current location, this is the sort of thing I'd like to try. I'm interested in finding out things, not just blindly following a set of skimpy intructions.
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jule
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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2007, 08:51:19 PM »
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We had a poll recently in a township close to where I live to give the people the choice of whether to go ahead with a water recycling plant. The subject was hotly debated for a few weeks before polling day. Despite this township being desperately short of water; despite the alternatives to water recycling costing much more; despite assurances from scientists and engineers that the recycled water would be purer than the processed water they were already drinking; the people voted against the recycling proposal. Irrationality won the day.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107376\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Who would have thought ironically, that the initial thread header "testing the waters" would end up here.  
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2007, 10:34:03 PM »
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Who would have thought ironically, that the initial thread header "testing the waters" would end up here. 
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Right! But I find some of these wandering digressions entertaining, and even (somewhat) informative.

Ray should be proud to have a photo of his generate so much comment.  
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Ray
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2007, 11:31:57 PM »
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Who would have thought ironically, that the initial thread header "testing the waters" would end up here. 
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Jule,
You are so perceptive   . The irony of that completely escaped me. I guess there are subconscious layers at work in all of us. The fact that they are subconscious must of course mean we are not aware of them.
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Ray
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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2007, 11:38:15 PM »
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Ray should be proud to have a photo of his generate so much comment. 
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Eric,
I got that backhanded compliment. Much comment in the form of digression. Little of the photo itself   .
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