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Author Topic: To clone or not to clone  (Read 9805 times)
Ray
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« on: March 15, 2007, 03:56:32 AM »
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When trekking in Nepal, I was often dismayed by the lack of communication between the Electricity Authority and the Tourist Bureau.

Nepal relies heavily upon the tourist dollar, but those in charge of power line construction seem oblivious to this fact. Consequently, power lines criss-cross all sorts of inspiring views.

The following is one such shot which initially I confidently thought would be no problem because in Photoshoip I could clone out the power lines,

But when I came to doing it, I had second thoughts. Are those power lines actually serving a compositional purpose, I thought? Perhaps they are leading the eye into the vast distance and enhancing the majestic impact of the landscape.

What do you think?

[attachment=2096:attachment]
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2007, 06:29:06 AM »
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When trekking in Nepal, I was often dismayed by the lack of communication between the Electricity Authority and the Tourist Bureau.

Nepal relies heavily upon the tourist dollar, but those in charge of power line construction seem oblivious to this fact. Consequently, power lines criss-cross all sorts of inspiring views.

The following is one such shot which initially I confidently thought would be no problem because in Photoshoip I could clone out the power lines,

But when I came to doing it, I had second thoughts. Are those power lines actually serving a compositional purpose, I thought? Perhaps they are leading the eye into the vast distance and enhancing the majestic impact of the landscape.

What do you think?

[attachment=2096:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106747\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Clone them, they are very distracting and annoying as hell in the blue sky, looks like severe scratches in a tranny!
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Ray
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2007, 07:04:10 AM »
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Clone them, they are very distracting and annoying as hell in the blue sky, looks like severe scratches in a tranny!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106764\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Okay! Maybe you're right. But they are more than scratches as you can see in this 100% crop below.

[attachment=2097:attachment]

Perhaps I should add, when I showed this image in a slide show on a digital projector, and apologised for not having time to clone out the power lines, there was a definite response that I should leave the power lines in.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 07:25:49 AM by Ray » Logged
russell a
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2007, 08:30:14 AM »
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Ray:  My philosophy in this regard may differ from yours.  I say "These are the artifacts of the time in which we live.  Deal with them as part of the illuminous landscapes that we have made.  Find your grandeur in subjects that don't represent a nostalgia for the disappeared."  I'm with Robert Adams on this one.
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2007, 09:47:11 AM »
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I assumed the house and power lines were the focus of the photo.  I'd keep them.  If any thing I'd try to crop it to make them more prominent.
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Lisa Nikodym
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2007, 09:53:10 AM »
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I can see it going either way, depending on what you're trying for.  They are definitely a major focal point of the image; if that's what you want, to show the works of man in the landscape, then fine and good.  If you want people to look at the mountains, however, then the lines are ugly and distracting and should be removed.

If it were my photo, I'd remove them.

Lisa
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2007, 02:05:32 PM »
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I find the ones in the sky quite distracting, and they add nothing to the picture. I would clone out those but leave in the lines (and poles) that are below the edge of the sky and clouds.

Just my peculiar variant.
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shothunter
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2007, 04:08:57 PM »
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Not that a novice's opinion matters a lot - but I would clone those lines out all the way to the first pole.

cheers  
eddie
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2007, 04:23:53 PM »
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Not that a novice's opinion matters a lot - but I would clone those lines out all the way to the first pole.

cheers   
eddie
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106853\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
A novice's opinion can be very important (especially when it agrees with mine!)  
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Ray
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2007, 10:25:48 PM »
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Well, thanks for your comments. Russell seems to be advising, 'don't take the shot if modern artifacts have destroyed a nostalgic past'.

Dark Penguin seems to be the only one who thinks the wires should stay. My own feeling is I should clone out the wires and I probably wouldn't have had second thoughts about it had I not shown this image as part of a slide show on a 1368x1024 projector.

However, I now see that the image that was part of the slide show was not the one above, but an almost identical one shown below, the main difference being that the power lines are better lit in this shot and are therefore more prominent. On a relatively low resolution projector they gave the impression of jet trails, which is probably why it was thought I should not clone them out.  

There's also a cow in the foreground in this shot. Not sure if that contributes anything to the composition.

Of course, I'd rather leave the wires in, if I can get away with it. I've got many such shots. Don't want to spend days of my life cloning out power lines   .

[attachment=2103:attachment]
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2007, 10:46:38 PM »
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OK, I can waffle just like a politician.

I like the one with the cow, and for some reason (probably because they look intentional) the wires don't bother me as much in this one. In the first version they looked to hesitant, and thus distracting.

I don't think the "cow" version needs the wires, but they are ok. And the cow does add something.

That's my 2 Euros.
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Ray
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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2007, 11:21:12 PM »
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Thanks, Eric. You've expressed it well and it's along my lines of thinking. I'll keep the power lines in this shot. I think the image is worth printing.

Perhaps I should add (although it's probably completely unnecessary) that I've processed the second image with a view to printing. The first one was a rough conversion in ACR. For some reason, I usually use ACR as a convenient method of seeing what's there. When I want to get the most out of an image, I usually use Raw Shooter Premium.

I haven't downloaded my free copy of Lightroom yet.
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Ray
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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2007, 03:30:57 AM »
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As I said, I have lots of shots in Nepal with power lines. Since the time I was first there in 1964 they seem to have gone crazy. There's no way I'm going to clone out the power lines in the following shot in the township of Muktinath.

[attachment=2104:attachment]

As you will notice, I'm one of the priveleged few to have been to the North Pole...(hotel)   .
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jule
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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2007, 04:03:57 AM »
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Ray, for some reason I love the cow - sort of whimsical in a way - like kids drawings where they put just one animal in the paddock. It made me think that sometimes things can get just a bit too serious and it lightened things up a bit.
 
I also think the power lines are much better now they are more prominent.

Julie
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2007, 09:07:19 AM »
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As I said, I have lots of shots in Nepal with power lines. Since the time I was first there in 1964 they seem to have gone crazy. There's no way I'm going to clone out the power lines in the following shot in the township of Muktinath.

[attachment=2104:attachment]

As you will notice, I'm one of the priveleged few to have been to the North Pole...(hotel)   .
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=106939\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This one would be a great exercise for a Photoshop class learning to use the clone tool!

Good thing you got to the "North Pole" before the polar ice cap melted.  
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mtselman
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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2007, 06:20:28 PM »
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Ray, I also like the second image (with the cow) more and I find wires there to be less distracting. I wonder if they will be more distracting on a print, though. Cloning them out would be quite an undertaking.
As for the state of wiring in Nepal in general, there are indeed some feats of Electrical Engineering, like here for example (this one from Kathmandu and will probably look familiar to you):
Art of Electrical Engineering in Nepal
  --Misha
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2007, 08:10:46 PM »
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Ray, I also like the second image (with the cow) more and I find wires there to be less distracting. I wonder if they will be more distracting on a print, though. Cloning them out would be quite an undertaking.
As for the state of wiring in Nepal in general, there are indeed some feats of Electrical Engineering, like here for example (this one from Kathmandu and will probably look familiar to you):
Art of Electrical Engineering in Nepal
  --Misha
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107094\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Great example, Misha. It should get some sort of award. It looks to me like the wiring analog of Microsoft programming.  
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DiaAzul
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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2007, 08:35:37 PM »
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Ray,

I don't think the powerlines are the problem with this image and it may look better if you crop out the top and bottom of the image to make it a pano. This creates a bowl into which the lake can sit and the power lines then form a lead into the house.

Shame that they curve up sharply in the middle of the picture, but I don't think that is necessarily bad.

[attachment=2106:attachment]
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jule
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« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2007, 08:46:42 PM »
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Ray,

I don't think the powerlines are the problem with this image and it may look better if you crop out the top and bottom of the image to make it a pano. This creates a bowl into which the lake can sit and the power lines then form a lead into the house.

Shame that they curve up sharply in the middle of the picture, but I don't think that is necessarily bad.

[attachment=2106:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107111\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
David, I think that although the power lines are less distracting by your crop, the open expansiveness of the image is now lost.
Julie
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Ray
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« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2007, 11:43:27 PM »
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There are so many options for cropping. I'm reminded of some saying by some famous person, that he/she never saw an image that could not be improved by cropping. (Is it just me. I tend to remember the statement rather than the person who made it.)

But my interpretation of that statement is that cropping is a very subjective thing.

Now that Julie has mentioned the whimsical attraction of the cow, I'm a bit disappointed that you have cropped it out, David   .
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