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Author Topic: Profiling Epson Projectors?  (Read 21623 times)
mcmorrison
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« on: March 16, 2007, 05:15:59 PM »
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Hello,

I am considering the Epson PowerLite 76c projector. Among my first priorities is the ability to profile it use the Gretag i1 system. I have not been able to determine whether this projector (or which projectors in general) can be profiled. Is the profile applied at the OS level as it is for a monitor? (Mac OS X . . . ), or?

I am guessing that the Epson, and most projectors, can be profiled, but I will appreciate any guidance on determining whether a projector can be profiled or not. . .

Many Thanks,

Michael Morrison
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alainbriot
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2007, 06:32:19 PM »
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Gretag has a projector profiling accessory which allows you to use the spectrophotometer and read the image projected on the screen. The software/hardware do their thing and at the end a profile for your particular projector, screen, distance, environment, etc. is created.  You then choose this profile as the projector profile in the system software.

It is recommended to profile your projector each time you go to a different location as variables change (different screen, distance, environment, aging lamp, etc.).
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Alain Briot
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mcmorrison
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2007, 07:32:46 PM »
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Hello Alain,

Thank you for your thoughts.

Yes, I intend to use the Eye-One system for profiling. I am wondering if all projectors can be profiled this way, or if there is a class of projectors that can't be profiled? For instance, I presume the projector must take an RGB input and not only an S or Composite signal, but I don't know. . . And yes, I understand that the system must be profiled for each viewing setup.

Many thanks,

Michael Morrison
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alainbriot
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2007, 12:07:27 AM »
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The profiling is based on the projected image on the screen so the source color space does not come into play in terms of making the profiling impossible. Any projector can be profiled just like any monitor can be profiled.  Profiling a projector is very similar to profiling a monitor except you profile light reflected off the screen instead of light emitted by a CRT/LCD.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 12:09:55 AM by alainbriot » Logged

Alain Briot
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Ray
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2007, 01:31:26 AM »
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There is one rather cumbersome way of dispensing with profiling for still image projection. Just process the RAW (or jpeg) image on the projector in Photoshop (as well as or instead of) your monitor. Such an image can be made to look right, but of course would not be suitable for printing because your projector is not calibrated.

This requires a duplication of effort and of course such adjustments in Adobe will not be applicable to the display of DVD movies.
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mcmorrison
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2007, 02:45:17 PM »
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Quote
The profiling is based on the projected image on the screen so the source color space does not come into play in terms of making the profiling impossible. Any projector can be profiled just like any monitor can be profiled.  Profiling a projector is very similar to profiling a monitor except you profile light reflected off the screen instead of light emitted by a CRT/LCD.
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Hello Alain,

I had hoped that this was the case, thank you for confirming it!

Many thanks,

Michael Morrison
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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2007, 04:35:28 PM »
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I've profiled many projectors with the EyeOne Beamer. Usually when I travel and do presentations. I don't recall any specific Epson models but I also don't recall having any issues with any of the projectors. Some produce much more apparent before and after results than others.

Keep in mind the calibration and resulting profile is based on the ambient light in the room. Plus, if you're using different computers, the video system come into play (so you can't as an example, profile for a single Powerbook and then move that profile over to another laptop).

There is an issue with OS X. Since you may be mirroring for a presentation, the host application (say Photoshop) will usually produce a somewhat ugly (not correct) preview on the laptop display but of course will look fine on the projector. This makes doing editing by watching the display difficult. But the audience will see greatly improved color from the projector.
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Andrew Rodney
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mcmorrison
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2007, 08:56:28 AM »
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Hello Andrew,

Thanks for your thoughts, they are very helpful!

I infer from your experience with mirroring, that the projector's profile is stored as the "monitor" profile in OS X, and that this profile is used for both the projected image and the monitor. Presumably, one must therefore re-profile the monitor after using the projector?

Do you know if the projector is set up as a second display (rather than mirroring), whether it will also get a separate profile?

I am curious, since I am thinking of the Epson, about your report of not seeing many of them. Does this imply that they are not front-runners? Do you have a sense of who the front-runners are in the Epson 76c (1024x768, ~2000 lumen) class?

Many Thanks,

Michael Morrison
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digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2007, 09:08:32 AM »
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There's a default profile being used and of course you can switch this. When the projector is hooked up, it will 'download' a generic profile for use but after you build the profile using the Beamer, you'll select that in the Monitors control panel instead. Once you unhook the display, you'll probably want to go back into Monitors and ensure the display profile for the Powerbook is now selected for use on that LCD screen. So you don't have to reprofile the LCD, just make sure it's being used.

When I travel to do presentations, most of the projectors suck and really need this process. I have used big Epson projectors when I do the Epson Print Academy. Since there are a number of us presenting,all from our Powerbooks, we don't use the Beamer but instead select sRGB which usually works quite well. The worse the quality of the projector, the more you will find the Beamer helping. A good quality, modern projector will do a reasonable job without.
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Andrew Rodney
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mcmorrison
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2007, 03:53:30 PM »
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Hello Andrew,

Thanks again, what you say makes perfect sense. No need to re-profile, just re-assign the original monitor profile when one is through projecting. . .

Yes, I have the sense that a lot of the projectors out there are not very good. I have certainly seen some bad ones. Do you have a sense of which ones are better, and which worser? I have been headed towards the LCD, or 3LCD, approach rather than DLP, and towards Epson because, well, they've been leaders in fine-art printing, so perhaps they have put a similar level of attention into their projectors? But this is just guess work on my part. I know the projector-market is now full of what seems like hundreds of models and brands!

Many Thanks!

Michael Morrison
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digitaldog
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2007, 06:10:20 PM »
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The Epson projectors are quite nice. I have an Optimally H1 which is also very good for the price.
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Andrew Rodney
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mcmorrison
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2007, 06:21:15 PM »
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Hello Andrew,

Many Thanks!

Best Regards,

Michael Morrison
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cbcbell
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2007, 09:24:39 AM »
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To follow up on Andrew's suggestion of sRGB, my wife is a professor of art history at Penn State, and is gradually giving more and more of her lectures using Apple's Keynote. Unfortunately, PSU appears not to be interested in profiling its projectors, so I recently looked into some alternative procedures. I have a fully color-managed workflow in my studio (thanks largely to Bruce Fraser and Andrew Rodney!) and so in class she shows sRGB jpegs that have been both converted and tagged with that profile in Photoshop. As for the projector, I discovered that the Epson 7900p in her lecture hall could be set to sRGB using its remote control. As I test image, I downloaded a synthetic ColorChecker in sRGB:

    http://www.babelcolor.com/main_level/ColorChecker.htm

The only variable left was the Powerbook, because the color still looked terrible. Then I realized that   Keynote was pumping out images using the monitor profile, which was one I had built in ColorEyes Display. I switched the monitor profile over to sRGB, and suddenly the color was terrific. Given that the projector is one used by many different professors over the course of a day (some on Macs, some using Windows laptops), this is probably a better solution for a teaching venue than even a custom profile, and it's really quite simple: just make sure that you have a consistent profile in your source material, your laptop and your projector.
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Christopher Campbell
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RudyKat
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2009, 01:30:17 PM »
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Hope it is not rude to resurrect this thread, but...

I recently attended a presentation of artists' watercolors, oils etc. where the jpg's were displayed on a Win laptop and an Epson PowerLite 5000 using the Win builtin image display utility. The colors were all over the place to the chagrinand consternation of the presenters. I though it was a profile issue and later looked up the manual for the Epson. It makes no mention of sRGB, colorspace or profile. However, there is SW that can control brightness, contrast, tint and saturation if NTSC mode is used. There is also a test pattern available. Is it possible, somewhat like Adobe Gamma, to do a profile on-the-fly and get very reasonable projected color for the partucular HW and environmental setup?  Thx.

Rudy
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RudyKat
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