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Author Topic: Rude behavior  (Read 17418 times)
Jae_Moon
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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2007, 05:04:35 PM »
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I think that everyone is missing my point.  It wasn't the location or time of year.  I've been to many crowded locations, including Zabriskie, and have never seen the lack of consideration displayed by the person that was leading the workshop.  I would expect that someone billing themselves as a professional and teaching others would know better.
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While I understand your frustration, it should be noted that the area from which the group was taking photo is not the critical part of the sunrise scene. They are in shadow and you were try to taking pictures from parking lot. Many photo guide books specifically recommend to take a short walk from the parking lot in order to reduce 'too much' dark foreground.

During my last visit a month ago, I was among 15+ photographers in that exact location. None of us were with a workshop, many with simple P&S, a couple with DBs, and one 45 film.

Jae Moon
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David White
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« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2007, 08:33:35 PM »
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While I understand your frustration, it should be noted that the area from which the group was taking photo is not the critical part of the sunrise scene. They are in shadow and you were try to taking pictures from parking lot. Many photo guide books specifically recommend to take a short walk from the parking lot in order to reduce 'too much' dark foreground.

During my last visit a month ago, I was among 15+ photographers in that exact location. None of us were with a workshop, many with simple P&S, a couple with DBs, and one 45 film.
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So what if they were in shadow and how do you know that they weren't in a critical part of the scene from where other photographers were?  Sure they were in shadow, but that was changing rapidly.

I have to wonder if you were ever there because that location is not even visible from the parking lot which is much lower.

There was a pro at the same location I was who also thought the behavior was bad and a person who is a well known instructor and workshop leader also thought that where the workshop group set up was inexcusable.
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David White
Paul Sumi
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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2007, 09:14:21 PM »
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Oops, I've giving away some of my Yosemite secrets!  

Lisa
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There's also the ventilation side tunnel in the tunnel itself...  oops, there goes one of my secrets, too  

Paul
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LoisWakeman
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« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2007, 10:42:23 AM »
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Bob: another one is Eileann Donan castle in NW Scotland: get there after the car park opens on any nice-weather day, and take your pick of the lines of folk with tripods set up at the water's edge or arms aloft with P&S cameras. I meant to record it last time I was there, and forgot in my amusement.

I'm sure most of us can come up with a location in our own country.
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Camboman
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« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2007, 11:08:51 AM »
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I had a similar experience at the Temples of Angkor. I arrived before sunrise everyday to be in position for sunrise photos. This worked well, but an hour or so later, busloads of tourists arrive and the chance of a temple photo without tourists included becomes impossible. So I turn my camera on the tourists, this can lead to some amusing photos as well.

Tourists at Angkor
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boku
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« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2007, 11:15:28 AM »
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Windsor Castle, changing of the Guard.

I have to admit, I WAS RUDE.

Otherwise, no shot.

Brits expect rudeness from Americans, so I am told.

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Bob Kulon

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Ray
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« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2007, 07:26:38 PM »
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I had a similar experience at the Temples of Angkor. I arrived before sunrise everyday to be in position for sunrise photos. This worked well, but an hour or so later, busloads of tourists arrive and the chance of a temple photo without tourists included becomes impossible. So I turn my camera on the tourists, this can lead to some amusing photos as well.

Tourists at Angkor
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That's exactly how it is, Camboman. Those damned tourists are everywhere   Hope you got a few shots without them.
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2007, 07:50:47 PM »
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Bob: another one is Eileann Donan castle in NW Scotland: get there after the car park opens on any nice-weather day, and take your pick of the lines of folk with tripods set up at the water's edge or arms aloft with P&S cameras. I meant to record it last time I was there, and forgot in my amusement.

I'm sure most of us can come up with a location in our own country.
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Thats why I shoot it at night...

« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 07:52:04 PM by pom » Logged

larkvi
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« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2007, 10:18:42 PM »
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I understand the principle: I spent two-three hours shooting a pair of marmots in Yoho NP (Canada), not because I particularly wanted to shoot them for that long, but because the rock the marmots were sunning themselves on was very near the road, and I, with the tripod and large lens, was too tempting a target for anyone who drove by to resist. While I had parked down the road and approached quietly, most pulled off right there, including a whole busload of Japanese tourists. One couple insisted on walking up to try to get a shot of them with their P&S, and couldn't be argued out of it (it had to be a 20mme lens...).

I took up deliberately misleading people by pointing my camera at the nearby mountain vista whenever I heard a car coming. This worked for the most part (but not on that last couple). The result was that I could never coax both the marmots into a good position on the rock before they would be scared off. The failings of the one-marmot photo are my own.

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In Algonquin, after I waited long enough with tripod that the moose were grazing right in front of me, a European couple spotted me and came over to pet (sic) the moose, right in front of my camera.

[Neither of these were quite as good as the foreign tourists in Jasper (Banff?), who, overhearing a conversation I was having with another photographer, pestered me for the best way to find a bear off-trail at daybreak during cub season. I explained to him that he really did not want to suprise a bear off trail at daybreak in cub season, especially not with is small children, but he didn't seem to believe me.]

-Sean
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2007, 10:45:54 PM »
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[Neither of these were quite as good as the foreign tourists in Jasper (Banff?), who, overhearing a conversation I was having with another photographer, pestered me for the best way to find a bear off-trail at daybreak during cub season. I explained to him that he really did not want to suprise a bear off trail at daybreak in cub season, especially not with is small children, but he didn't seem to believe me.]

-Sean
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Did you help them?  A Darwin award might be more than they'd otherwise achieve.  Put a little chlorine in the gene pool.
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alainbriot
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« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2007, 02:17:31 AM »
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While I understand your frustration, it should be noted that the area from which the group was taking photo is not the critical part of the sunrise scene. They are in shadow and you were try to taking pictures from parking lot. Many photo guide books specifically recommend to take a short walk from the parking lot in order to reduce 'too much' dark foreground.
Jae Moon
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The photograph below was taken at sunrise and includes a large shadow area.  Once a shadow area is corrected for contrast and tone the colors in it are actually extremely saturated.  

This photograph also includes the area where photographers are standing in David's photograph (the one at the start of this thread).  I could not have created my image if there had been people in this area on the day I was there.  You can see the path leading to the area where people were standing in the center foreground of my image. I was located further to the left (South) than David was when I took this photograph.  



Incidentally, I led a workshop in Death Valley the week prior to the incident described in this thread, and I made sure my students did not step into other people's photographs.  As a workshop leader I see it as one of my responsibilities to teach my students what is proper and improper behavior.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 04:46:36 AM by alainbriot » Logged

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larkvi
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« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2007, 02:57:26 PM »
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Did you help them?  A Darwin award might be more than they'd otherwise achieve.  Put a little chlorine in the gene pool.
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Don't think that I didn't consider it...

-Sean
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dkeyes
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« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2007, 05:18:03 PM »
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Last week while photographing in Death Valley at Zabriskie Point, I witnessed some of the most irresponsible, inconsiderate and rude behavior by a workshop leader that I have ever seen.  The individual set his group up in a line on top of a rock formation right in the middle of a scene that several people at the top, in the viewing area, were trying to capture.  A couple of us moved to another location and had to recompose a different image than what we were going to shoot.

The sad thing is that a group of photographers was taught that it is OK to set up wherever you want without consideration for other photographers in the area.

To the person that was leading the workshop I hope that a hairy booger takes up residence on your sensor until you learn to improve your behavior.

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Not that this makes you feel better but I think you might be onto a new series of work. Landscapes with tourists/workshop groups. I find the shot with the people in it conceptually more interesting than yet another shot from the same location as thousands of others. You could document these groups at all the popular shooting locations. Yosemite, Death Valley, etc.

- Doug
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russell a
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« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2007, 08:58:35 AM »
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I understand that the state of technology is close to producing a meter that can detect if a site has been visited in the past by other photographers.  It will integrate traces of chemicals that correlate with the composition of either film or sensors.  An advanced mode will consider the composition of tripods and saliva residue to futher determine how "serious" the photographers might have been.  Of course it will be sold both to the "sheep" and "(lone) wolf" markets.
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Monito
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« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2007, 02:19:49 PM »
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An example happened to a group of us on a rare kind of day in February.  A photographer in a particularly bright outfit chose to dwell in a shot for at least 20 minutes, to the great frustration of serious photographers waiting for him to leave.  I decided to make the shot anyway and choose later whether to clone the one person out, which is easier than a large group.



A figure adds scale.  A crowd detracts.  I'm not sure about this one.  I'll probably end up cloning the dolt out.
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MonitoPhoto (Landscape, Architecture, Portraits: Halifax, Nova Scotia)
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« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2007, 02:36:41 PM »
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I am not sure if he was being rude. Did he know you were there? Was he not a serious photographer-and does that even matter?

Is this the same as the original post? If this is the case, we could always be in the way of other photographers. Nice shot by the way.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2007, 02:36:55 PM by jecxz » Logged

Monito
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« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2007, 02:54:37 PM »
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I am not sure if he was being rude. Did he know you were there? Was he not a serious photographer-and does that even matter? Is this the same as the original post? If this is the case, we could always be in the way of other photographers. Nice shot by the way.

Thanks. From the large number of photographers (minimum of ten at any given time) lined up at the edge of the meadow, staying out of each other's way, we would have been obvious to him.  The more serious the photographer, the more they should have been cognizant of their responsibility and effect.  If he was even halfway competent, he could have set up ahead of time (especially the choice of lens, aperture, shutterspeed and ISO), walked in, dwelled there for about a minute and walked out, for a total interference of three (3) minutes, which would have been fine and entirely understandable.
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MonitoPhoto (Landscape, Architecture, Portraits: Halifax, Nova Scotia)
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« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2007, 03:12:17 PM »
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A little counterpoint:

I was in a very, very remote monument (park area), with perhaps a dozen people in it (half were serious-looking photographers). It's an exposed area and anyone in the park would be visible in wide-angle shots. I happily took my photos anyway, and then relaxed to watch the sunset with my friend.

A photographer set up a panoramic camera at the edge of this monument, and started yelling at every individual in the park (actually, he got a kid to do the yelling!), trying to get them to leave entirely so he could have his shot with no people in it. We actually actually thought the kid was yelling at some other kid on the other side of the park, and ignored it. No-one else left either. Even if we had known, there was no way we were going to respond to some kid's yelling, or spoil our evening by taking the long walk out of the area and leaving early just for one photographer among many.

On our way out of the park, the photographer hurled epithets at us, calling us "*ssh*l*s", etc., for not leaving the park upon his (the kid's, that is) yelling. Dude, we would be 3 pixels tall in your precious shot.

Ultimately, public parks are for everyone!
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2007, 06:13:45 AM »
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These behaviours are for sure not very nice, but, on the other hand, why be where everybody else is?

A good backpack and a tent are the best weapons to shoot in locales that few people dare going to. Winter is of course even better from this standpoint.

If I can find amazing places in Japan without anyone around, I am sure it can be done in the US as well since the country is 25 larger with only twice the popullation.

Regards,
Bernard
« Last Edit: March 26, 2007, 06:16:25 AM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

A few images online here!
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« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2007, 09:21:12 AM »
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A good backpack and a tent are the best weapons to shoot in locales that few people dare going to. Winter is of course even better from this standpoint.
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I've always thought this guy ([a href=\"http://www.stephenwillard.com/home.php?retailid=SAW]photographer with llamas[/url]) had the right idea for 'getting away from the crowd'. Probably helps a lot with the weight of his large-format gear too
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