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Author Topic: Looking Forward to Future LLVJ Downloads  (Read 31995 times)
John.Murray
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« on: March 28, 2007, 07:15:45 PM »
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I applaud your decision to make your library available for download!  The content that I have viewed so far has only served to completly "recharge my batteries" leading to better photos and satisfaction from them.

One comment and possibly request:

Quicktime . . . .

I *hate* it - granted, it's an Apple thing, the player for Windows is positively *viral*, not even allowing fullscreen playback, stuffing unwanted processes in memory at startup . . .   fortunately alternative players exist.

Are Mpeg4 files completely out of the question?  Advantages are seamless playback on your chosen platform's "native" viewer, in addition - streaming the videos across my home network to my livingroom becomes easily possible, regardless of my "current" media server and/or client.

Best regards - john
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 07:18:18 PM by Joh.Murray » Logged

boku
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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2007, 07:22:22 PM »
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I applaud your decision to make your library available for download!  The content that I have viewed so far has only served to completly "recharge my batteries" leading to better photos and satisfaction from them.

One comment and possibly request:

Quicktime . . . .

I *hate* it - granted, it's an Apple thing, the player for Windows is positively *viral*, not even allowing fullscreen playback, stuffing unwanted processes in memory at startup . . .   fortunately alternative players exist.

Are Mpeg4 files completely out of the question?  Advantages are seamless playback on your chosen platform's "native" viewer, in addition - streaming the videos across my home network to my livingroom becomes easily possible, regardless of my "current" media server and/or client.

Best regards - john
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=109261\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Quicktime Pro allows full screen on PC. I think iTunes does also.

Or, you could follow me in my over-indulgence. I ordered an Apple TV device - I will install it Saturday. That will stream the hi-rez files to my HDTV.

Luminous Landscape has cost me over the years. Good thing they aren't reviewing the new Gitzos yet.
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Bob Kulon

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John.Murray
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2007, 07:36:53 PM »
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. . . and mpg4 files would stream beautifully over it
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2007, 07:48:35 PM »
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Download is fine if it is in a format that is easy to put on a DVD.  The tutorial was fine in download form but the LLVJ is a living room thing.
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61Dynamic
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2007, 07:55:45 PM »
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If you search around I'm sure you can find quite a few options for playing .mp4 files on a PC outside of quicktime. There are quite a few options for the mac platform I can't imaging it wouldn't be the case for you too. Besides, .mp4 isn't a Apple technology. It's owned my the Mpeg group. Apple is just the company that promotes it the most.

Anyway, hurrah for downloadable content!

Honestly this is the direction the entire industry will follow as evidenced by the ever increasing popularity of video podcasts and the IPTV services that are out or in the works (Joost, MS, ATT, and Verizon). To heck with the HD DVD/Blue Ray DRM encumbered pissing match. The industry will simply bypass the dopes at the MPAA. </minirant>

Great to see the LLVJ join the pioneering individuals pushing for new and effective distribution models.
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Kenneth Sky
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2007, 09:16:49 PM »
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If it helps the viability of LLVJ (and indirectly this site) I would gladly convert from mailed DVDs to online downloads. The LightRoom tutorials downloaded smoothly and I was able to store them on a DVD for future reference at minimal cost. So why not convert to what seems to be the way of the future?
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marcfs
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2007, 09:17:44 PM »
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Michael,

I hope you reconsider eliminating LLVJ on DVDs.

I really like and prefer being able to watch the LLVJ on the TV screen.  

Viewing LLVJ on my TV in a convenient and relaxing environment offset the speed of the download advantage.  Also I like to replay segments of older LLVJ editions.  This is a simple task to execute with DVDs.  

Importantly none of these points address the financial impact of your decision.

Thanks for listening.

Marc Schoenholz
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Mike Boden
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2007, 09:42:08 PM »
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I for one am not interested in downloadable videos. I prefer the physical DVD. If this is the direction that LLVJ is going, then I'll have to reconsider my subscription.

Respectfully,

Mike Boden
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mikealex
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2007, 10:37:42 PM »
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I too will have to rethink my subscription decision if this is the future of LLVJ. It is not a given that I won't renew my subscription, since I really do enjoy it, but it is certainly less likely.  That is a decision I will have to make when the time comes. I will not be converting my current subscription to download.

As a software designer, I spend quite enough time in front of a computer. I did not take on photography so I can spend even more time there. Sitting in an office chair, in front of a desk and monitor is not a relaxing environment for me. I'm much more comfortable and relaxed watching LLVJ in my family room, on my comfy leather couch.

As for delivery times, I guess I benefit from living just 4 hours NE of LL central, so my discs arrive within a couple days of being mailed.

Michael, I hope you will rethink this decision. If it means an increase in the cost of LLJV, so be it, but please continue the option to subscribe to the DVD.
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...Mike
Paul Sumi
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2007, 10:51:29 PM »
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I too will have to rethink my subscription decision if this is the future of LLVJ. It is not a given that I won't renew my subscription, since I really do enjoy it, but it is certainly less likely. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=109297\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have to add my voice against a download-only LLVJ.  I also hope that you will reconsider this decision.

Sincerely,

Paul
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61Dynamic
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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2007, 12:53:57 AM »
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Assuming Michael does not use DRM (which considering he has not yet) then it will be possible, and simple, to burn the downloads to DVD for playback on a TV.
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michael
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2007, 02:21:18 AM »
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There is no DRM on our downloads. One is free to burn them to DVD.

As for playing them on a TV vs a computer or iPod, this is going to be come increasingly possible as devices like Apple TV become widely in use.

We have to look to the future, not the past. DVD video distribution, with all the hassles of bulk disk replication, wharehousing, packaging, fullfillment, shipping, postage, returns, lost disk, mail delays, customs (half of our business is international).... all of this simply tells us that download is the way to go.

Just as five years ago we turned away from VHS videotape to a new technology called DVD, we now have to look to downloads as the future of non-broadcast video. No DRM, instant availability, much lower cost to the customer, ability to be played on a multitude of devices, from iPods to computer screens to TVs.

No, I'm afraid there's no turning back. We've been researching and planning this for almost 6 months, and the move is necessary. We will likely continue to publish at least another couple of DVDs, but the content will appear online weeks beforehand (maybe even longer).

We know we will lose some customers by dropping DVD distribution, and this is unfortunate. But the reality is we are now selling vastly more downloads a day that we used to sell DVDs in a week, so the writing is on the wall.

Michael
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alfin
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2007, 05:33:01 AM »
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I think you will get many more new customers in the future with this wise decision.  So far I have hesitated to sign-up for a subscription due to the ridiculous cost of sending a DVD from Canada to Sweden compared to the price for the DVD. Even though I have bought some single LLVJ issues, I much more prefer your latest download approach and you can be sure I will buy everyone of them in the future. However, considering the suggestion made earlier about also providing MPEG4 versions would be appreciated.

Lars
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Lars Mollerstrom
mikealex
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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2007, 06:42:35 AM »
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An AppleTV is an ok solution for people in the US that want to watch on their TV, since they can also purchase TV shows and movies through iTunes. On this side of the border, and most other places in the world, Apple doesn't have distribution rights for this type of media, making an Apple TV a very limited use device, that's not worth the money. The Apple TV also requires an HD set which some of us (myself included) do not yet own (and have no desire to buy either).

Burning to DVD is an option, but it takes hours to do, and when done, it will still be an inferior product to what is delivered now. As Chris said in the thread on burning the LR Tutorial to DVD, it takes a lot of work to properly convert content encoded for computer display to look as good on TV.

I can understand your desire to provide the content through download, and I think you will get new customers by doing so (hopefully for you, more than you're going to lose). But I don't understand why it needs to be one or the other.

To me LLVJ is too good a product, and too nicely produced to deserve this kind of treatment. I'm sorry to hear that your mind is made up. I have 3 more DVD's coming to me in my subscription, which I will not convert to download. After that, I will have to decide whether I will continue.

Might I suggest, since most of your subscribers have probably never seen the downloadable version of LLVJ, that you make the current issue 15 available to current subscribers, so we can at least see what we can expect in your new future? Maybe once we see it, there will be less concern.
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...Mike
RockySharwell
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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2007, 06:45:38 AM »
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Michael:

I think it is a good but temporarily annoying thing to drop the DVDs.  I work as an appellate lawyer--basically spending lots of my day in front of the computer.

 I truly enjoy the DVD when I come home sit down in front of the TV with a warm cat on my lap.  I think the annoyance will diminish as products like Apple TV become more prevalent.  I can appreciate  the hassle and cost of dealing with the DVDs.
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katemann
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« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2007, 08:17:31 AM »
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I think I'm missing something here - is it impossible to burn the downloaded file to a DVD and then fire up the TV and watch it there, cat and all?

I am pleased with the decision to offer downloads of LLVJ. I would probably be dismayed if I didn't have a broadband connection!

I haven't tried using iTunes to watch the journal - thanks for the tip. Quicktime is indeed a PITA on a PC.
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mikealex
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« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2007, 08:21:54 AM »
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I think I'm missing something here - is it impossible to burn the downloaded file to a DVD and then fire up the TV and watch it there, cat and all?
It is possible, but it is a very time consuming process, and the end result will not be of the same quality as the current DVD offering (not even close).

Michael is right that this will allow more people to buy the LLVJ without the costs and hassles of international mailings. But you cannot take 4.7GB of already compressed video, further compress it down to 800MB and expect it to have the same quality. There's no way around it, this will be an inferior product to what is being delivered today.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 08:29:53 AM by mikealex » Logged

...Mike
DarkPenguin
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« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2007, 08:29:52 AM »
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It is possible, but it is a very time consuming process, and the end result will not be of the same quality as the current DVD offering (not even close).

Michael is right that this will allow more people to buy the LLVJ without the costs and hassles of international mailings. But there's no way around it, this will be an inferior product to what is being delivered today.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=109356\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

And that is my question.  Is the product after conversion to a form I can watch on my TV the same product.  If I can get the same result as the DVD by converting and burning a download then a download is fine.
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mikealex
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« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2007, 08:57:33 AM »
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No, it will not be the same product. It will be poorer video quality, and will not have the navigation menus of the current DVDs (you will have to build your own menu to navigate the DVD content).


Michael, a thought I had as I was walking the dogs. If the decision to go to exclusively downloadable video has been made and is final, have you considered offering a DVD ISO file option for download? I realize that the files are large (4.7GB), but burning an ISO file to DVD is trivial, only takes a few minutes, and will enable you to deliver the identical content at the same high quality as you deliver today on DVD. This is an option that I could live with.

I realize that DVD ISOs are too large for some to download, so the QT files would still be required.
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...Mike
Paul Sumi
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« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2007, 09:11:26 AM »
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Might I suggest, since most of your subscribers have probably never seen the downloadable version of LLVJ, that you make the current issue 15 available to current subscribers, so we can at least see what we can expect in your new future? Maybe once we see it, there will be less concern.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=109337\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Or at least an example segment to test for download times and viewing quality.

I can appreciate the economic necessity (and a download LLVJ is better than none at all).  But I fear that the LLVJ viewing experience will be greatly diminished; like viewing side-by-side large prints of the same subject, one shot at 6 megapixels and the other at 39.

Six looks okay until you see the higher resolution print.  And, Michael, for better or worse, we've come to expect 39 megapixel quality from the LLVJ.    

Best,

Paul
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