Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 5 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Phase: Poker face or nothing up their sleeve?  (Read 24323 times)
Geoffrey
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 69


« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2007, 05:00:07 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Hy6 – Many official comments that Phase is not part of the project. I don't see them passing up a chance to get on board this and then spending time to reverse engineer it. So no Phy6

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110045\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Maybe not. The whole Hy6/Phase issue might just be some business negotiations - imagine Sinar having linked up with Leaf (who may have their own agenda...) and Phase or Sinar just not ready then or willing to pony up at that time.

Given the complexities of the business relationships in this developing story, its not unreasonable to imagine Phase might join this party later.
Logged
TorbenEskerod
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 76


« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2007, 09:44:38 AM »
ReplyReply

xx
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 06:03:32 AM by TorbenEskerod » Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2007, 10:23:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Dear Torben,

that's the wish of this ex-Rollei dealer, but that's not in accordance with the reality, as it is today.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
I talked to the Rollei dealer in Copenhagen today (Photografica.com) and he assured me that he will have the new Rollei as soon as it is released.

The Sinar dealer however (Hother.dk) will have the Sinar version.

In Denmark the Sinar dealer is not the Professional Rolleiflex 6008 / Rollei x-Act 2 dealer.

Best

Torben
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110584\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
TorbenEskerod
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 76


« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2007, 03:17:12 PM »
ReplyReply

xx
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 06:03:49 AM by TorbenEskerod » Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2007, 03:25:34 AM »
ReplyReply

Dear Torben,

if you go to this link and then to Rollei products, you will see there only Rollei 6000 and Rollei Twin Lens cameras sold by "Photographica". No Rollei 6008, no X-Act 2 listed there.

That is the current situation: Sinar is wordwide and exclusive distributor for the Rollei 6008 Integral 2, the 6008 AF and the X-Act 2, with all the corresponding accessories.

As for the Rolleiflex Hy6: I doubt this will be annouced and officially available/sold on this website.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Dear Thierry

Photografica told me that they just had a meeting with the CEO from Franke & Heidecke and he personally assured them that they will have the Rollei when released.

Photografica are very respectable dealers (Rollei, Linhoff, Arca-Swiss, Alpa):

http://www.photografica.com/news/default.a...egory=42&id=483

I will ask them again when they open after Easter holiday - so until then happy holiday.
Best 

Torben
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110637\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 03:26:12 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
TorbenEskerod
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 76


« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2007, 04:49:57 AM »
ReplyReply

xx
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 06:04:03 AM by TorbenEskerod » Logged
TorbenEskerod
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 76


« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2007, 05:13:27 AM »
ReplyReply

xx
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 06:04:15 AM by TorbenEskerod » Logged
BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7903



WWW
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2007, 06:39:40 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
The scenario the way I see it: We will soon have LEAF, Sinar and phase backs on the Hasselblad H3D – AND Hasselblad and Phase backs on the Hy6. This is of cause if LEAF, Sinar, Hasselblad and Phase want this to happen and dare taking it to the EU court.

This is just my personal view but is just cant help thinking what EU did to Microsoft and their attempt to make closed system.

I am all for open systems and think in the long run everyone will benefit.
Best
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110758\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The MS case is completely different since they have a near monopoly in computer OS, which is one trade category in itself.

My guess is that MF cameras are a small nice in a given catgory called photographic gear, and nobody is even remotely close to having a monopoly there.

I am not a lawyer by any means, but my guess is that Leaf and Phase would have zero chance to win.

What if I start to make engine for cars. Do you think that I stand a chance to force BMW or Mercedes in court to design their chassis so that they can accept my engine. Never.

A H3D is a single camera, even if the back can be removed from the rest of the body. Nobody can force Hassy to make public an interface between 2 inner parts of a standalone product.

Regards,
Bernard
Logged

A few images online here!
mcfoto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 938


WWW
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2007, 07:23:40 PM »
ReplyReply

ENOUGH! can we stop this. 3475 replies & 47 views. After all that, nothing has changed Phase is on there own. Can we please put this one to bed.
Logged

Denis Montalbetti
Montalbetti+Campbell
www.montalbetticampbell.com
vgogolak
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 337


WWW
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2007, 10:08:40 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
ENOUGH! can we stop this. 3475 replies & 47 views. After all that, nothing has changed Phase is on there own. Can we please put this one to bed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110897\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No!

Ever hear of Yogi Berra?

It ain't over till its over...

:-)


Miracles can happen. Afetr all, Leica came out with a quite respectable rangefinder digital when many NON LEICA people said it couldn't be done.

The promise of the Hy6 in the meantime is up for grabs. When was that first camera to be delivered?

ANd Phase One problem; could be short sighted board, or short funded. Maybe we 'rabid Contax fans "  should pass the hat..

Victor
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 10:11:17 PM by vgogolak » Logged
godtfred
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 293



WWW
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2007, 04:36:36 PM »
ReplyReply

PhaseOne has an interesting article up on their website (.pdf) format:

http://www.phaseone.com/upload/mediumformatchallenge.pdf

Seems they are pretty upset about being locked out of different systems.

-axel
Logged

Axel Bauer
godtfred.com
H2|M679CS|P45+
mcfoto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 938


WWW
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2007, 06:45:24 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: godtfred,Apr 8 2007, 04:36 PM
PhaseOne has an interesting article up on their website (.pdf) format:

http://www.phaseone.com/upload/mediumformatchallenge.pdf

Quote

Hi
I am pleased that there seems to be some sort of cooperation with Phase & Mamiya. That there new Capture 4.0 will have something to do with the new 28 & 75-150 mm lens? In the coming months I hope there will be more details.
Denis
Logged

Denis Montalbetti
Montalbetti+Campbell
www.montalbetticampbell.com
bradleygibson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 829


WWW
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2007, 07:47:10 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks, Axel for posting this.

I read the paper with great interest--I share much of their opinion of the current situation in MF.  But other than "take another look at Mamiya", I didn't get much from it in the way of a call to action.

Perhaps some clarity from them on their intents to support which platforms would help some people with  planning hardware purchases.  Put another way, I wonder how many Hassy H3 or Hy 6 purchasers would have the luxury of deferring their purchases if they knew that Phase was planning support for their camera of choice?

-Brad
Logged

James Russell
Guest
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2007, 12:30:07 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Thanks, Axel for posting this.

I read the paper with great interest--I share much of their opinion of the current situation in MF.  But other than "take another look at Mamiya", I didn't get much from it in the way of a call to action.

Perhaps some clarity from them on their intents to support which platforms would help some people with  planning hardware purchases.  Put another way, I wonder how many Hassy H3 or Hy 6 purchasers would have the luxury of deferring their purchases if they knew that Phase was planning support for their camera of choice?

-Brad
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I briefly skimmed over that PDF and though I respect some form of bringing current information to light, I don't really see this as any kind of statement that is that relevent to photographers.

Yes, it does look like Leaf, Sinar and Hasselblad are investing in proprietary systems and without knowing the behind the scenes facts it seems the intention is to lock Phase out of camera platforms.

From one standpoint it seems if the rival manaufacturer's can't beat Phase by producinga a better digital back or software they will push them out of the market through other means, but in the world of commmerce there really isn't nothing new about that.

Don't think Ford wouldn't wrap up a deal to be the only supplier of automobile tires if they could financially and legally do it.

I could see this coming the moment Imacon and Hasselblad got together so I moved to the Contax because other than the quality of the camera and the ability to add different lenses to a focal plane body, the biggest motivator for buying a Contax was they had no agenda, since they were closing down shop.

The Contax is  well built and should last a long time, the Zeiss lenses legandary, the prices were good and nobody at Contax was going to write a new firmware to make my camera only work with a Contax digital back.

For me as a photographer this all seems like a non issue.  As long as I can continue to produce this with a P-30 and a Contax then there is not much out there that would move me to invest tens of thousands of dollars more to make a change.

[a href=\"http://russellrutherfordgroup.com/fea_fin_.jpg]http://russellrutherfordgroup.com/fea_fin_.jpg[/url]
http://russellrutherfordgroup.com/final_%203.jpg

Still, if I was Phase and I was publishing an advertising vehicle, I wouldn't mentioned the competion, I would just make points of the positives of the product because IMO they have a lot of positives to mention.

I would also make note of while the other manufacturer's now have a vested interest to move you to one of their complete camera and body systems, Phase will still provide the option of going with virutally any camera you want.

I know I was suprised then I when I ordered my P-30 in a Contax mount I got it in a day, where the Leaf A-22 and later A-65 took many weeks and even months to get a contax mounted back.

If you step back and think about it for a moment, does anyone really believe that if the HY6 and  the H3D disappeared tomorrow there are not more than enough supply of Mamiyas, Contax, H1's and H2's in the market place to keep you working for another 10 years?

And those are just cameras with dedicated digital interfaces, when you add in the Hasselblad V's the RZ non digital versions, Bronicas, etc., there are enough cameras to keep us working for a century.

Personally, I'm more concerned with the quality of the "film" the workflow, the stability of a camera back and the look and color it can produce than I am if I can't buy a new camera body in 12 months.

During the film days, few people invested in a medium format camera and lenses thining it was just an 18 month solution.  Those were decade long purchases and looking  at digital capture in the same light there is no reason that any medium format camera for sale today, used of new, cannot or should not  also last another 10 years.

IMO

JR
Logged
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3976



WWW
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2007, 04:09:28 AM »
ReplyReply

All these companies are now in a holding pattern waiting for the new One Delta Sigma to land. When it has they will go back to fighting each other for the scraps of the market.

They should rather be cooperating to grow the market.

Phase One made the mistake of believeing that its competitors wanted win-win. They didn't - win-win needs intelligence to understand, win-lose is simple enough for a kindergarten kid.

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 04:11:33 AM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
jklotz
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 32


WWW
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2007, 07:48:36 AM »
ReplyReply

I spoke to a few of the Ziess reps at the Photoexpo show in NY a few months back. I am a dedicated Contax user, and like the others, would like nothing more than to see it's resurection. The problem, as I was told, is not lack of interested buyers, or Koycera (sp?) not willing to sell, but rather the anti-competition laws imposed by the Japanese government. Aparently, in order to buy and manufacture any part of the Contax line, be it branded as Contax or otherwise, it would be necessary to keep production in Japan and hire some percentage of Japenese employees that worked in the original organazation for a certian period of time. I didn't get the exact details, but the jist of it was that it would be cost prohibitive for anybody to go to the expenses and legal hurdles required given the limited demand for MF cameras.
Logged

hankg
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 55


WWW
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2007, 11:00:18 AM »
ReplyReply

It would seem from the Phase One opinion piece, Phase One is more then a little concerned about the actions of Hasselblad and perhaps less so, Sinar and Leaf. I think the only thing Hasselblad and the Hy6 consortium will acomplish is to convince photographers to stick with product from the used market rather then get locked in to an expensive one vendor solution. I think James and Edmund have got it right.
Logged

thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2007, 11:13:01 AM »
ReplyReply

I would just like to clarify something which seems important in my eyes, independentely of any supposed exclusion from the Sinar Hy 6 system (we have excluded nobody).

You ARE NOT stick to one brand of camera platform, when investing in a Sinarback, not at all!

Please keep in mind that Sinar offers all its digital backs with an adapter system: adapters can be changed any time and thus the use of the same back with anyther camera brand. In consequence of this, all current Sinarbacks can be used on any current existing MF brands, incl. Contax, Mamiya, Hasselblad V and H (with exception of the H3D!), etc...

That has been our philosophy since the start we have manufactured digital backs.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
It would seem from the Phase One opinion piece, Phase One is more then a little concerned about the actions of Hasselblad and perhaps less so, Sinar and Leaf. I think the only thing Hasselblad and the Hy6 consortium will acomplish is to convince photographers to stick with product from the used market rather then get locked in to an expensive one vendor solution. I think James and Edmund have got it right.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111488\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
Dan Wells
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 334


WWW
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2007, 11:14:41 AM »
ReplyReply

What do people think about the forthcoming 1Ds (or D3x) incarnation actually matching even a 22mp MFDB? That (as Edmund brings up) is the elephant in the living room for the back manufacturers - it has the same effect on those of us contemplating buying our first back. I posted a long (and speculative) piece in the MFDB vs. Canon thread looking at the physics (to the best of my knowledge). I guessed that 21-22 mp is about the limit on a FF35 sensor before you start losing other aspects of image quality, and that such a sensor would have the dynamic range and tonality of a good DSLR, not a back (we've had the same pixel sizes since late 2004, and any attempt to go smaller has compromised range and tonality). The wild cards there are some type of Foveonesque sensor or Fuji's Super CCD. What do others think - I'm not a physicist! Any physicists or engineers out there who actually know what pixel size does to affect tonality, noise and dynamic range? Are these limits in the physics of the silicon, or in what we know how to do with it right now?

                                                               -Dan
Logged
JTFOTO
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 114


WWW
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2007, 11:30:38 AM »
ReplyReply

Hank,

I don't think you have read many of Edmunds postings.  Edmund getting anything right is a far cry.

A lot of rhetoric, conjecture and personal speculation trying to get people wound up.


RHETORIC:
the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast

CONJECTURE:
the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

SPECULATION:
conjectural consideration of a matter; conjecture or surmise: a report based on speculation rather than facts.

a conclusion or opinion reached by such contemplation: These speculations are impossible to verify.

THERE I SAID IT!  

NO ONE IS WAITING ON SIGMA. MAYBE THE RESEARCH OF THE FOVEN CHIP, BUT NO ONE IS WAITING ON SIGMA.




Quote
It would seem from the Phase One opinion piece, Phase One is more then a little concerned about the actions of Hasselblad and perhaps less so, Sinar and Leaf. I think the only thing Hasselblad and the Hy6 consortium will acomplish is to convince photographers to stick with product from the used market rather then get locked in to an expensive one vendor solution. I think James and Edmund have got it right.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111488\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 5 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad