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Author Topic: Do not buy HP APS for Z3100  (Read 6658 times)
marty m
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« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2007, 11:31:16 PM »
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Could you please enlighten me on what the APS is. I am in the market for a large format printer and have been interested in the z3100. Is this an extra piece of software that is not included with the printer? I have also been looking at the Canon 5000. THanks.

Paul
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The APS is described here:

[a href=\"http://h30267.www3.hp.com/country/us/en/products/large_format/Z2100/solutions/advanced_profiling_solution.html?pageseq=643303]http://h30267.www3.hp.com/country/us/en/pr...?pageseq=643303[/url]

It costs around US$700.  Don't buy it until they fix the problems.  

As to whether it is necessary to obtain high quality prints (assuming the problems are fixed) -- that is judgement call.  When using relative colormetric, I could barely see a difference between the Easy software and Easy profiles versus the APS and profiles created from that.  The difference is more evident with perceptual color space.  As I reported above, shadows are more open, especially when comparing the same print using PhotoRag with an Easy Profile and the APS profile.  When printing a color test image from Caponigro (a photo of a woman with a fruit basket on her head) there is a difference with red and yellow -- both are deeper and richer in color when printed using the APS profile as compared with the Easy profile.

If you an exacting professional, the APS might be worth it.  If an advanced amateur who normally prints only with relative colormetric, it is probably not worth the huge price of $700

But again, in its current form and with its severe limitations, it is not worth $7 let alone $700.  A profiling package that only works on 24" wide paper is simply junk IMHO.  On top of that, to spend $700 and not even be able to profile a so-called "professional" HP paper is absurd.

So wait before you buy.  It sounds like HP is working on a fix.
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PSQuared7
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« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2007, 07:27:50 AM »
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Just an update... There is a new version of APS in the works that from what I have been told adresses most of the concerns that have been raised here.

I will report back once I have the beta version.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110574\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hey Pana,

Who are you getting this info from. Is this coming from HP? Thanks.

Paul
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Panascape
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« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2007, 08:05:29 AM »
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Yes this is from Hp in Barcelona.
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Charles Gast
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« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2007, 03:58:48 PM »
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Somehow I had it in my head that the 1000 patch target capability came with the z3100. I did not realize it was a $700.00 "extra".  As for the eye one monitor calibrator the kit includes - I already have one.  Maybe they'll knock off $300.00 and leave that out   Oh well.  Ebay to the rescue.

I was unaware of APS so I have been asking about Bill Atkinson targets. Aps is going to be the answer. I'm confident HP will fix it.  As soon as I can profile 11x17 sheets that is.  A big reason for buying the z3100 (it is in transit now) was the built in profiling. I want *high* accuracy profiles for any media I feed the printer.  I am a bit discouraged that I now see that it requires another 700 bucks. Since this is the $4000 latest and greatest printer on the market who wouldn't want to max out its image quality to the n th degree?
I don't see anyone out there raising they're hands do I??
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Panascape
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« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2007, 04:24:01 PM »
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Charles from the info I have seen to date, HP is busy fixing APS and I am expecting a beta of the new version soon. I will keep all posted once I have seen it.
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Charles Gast
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« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2007, 04:36:31 PM »
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Charles from the info I have seen to date, HP is busy fixing APS and I am expecting a beta of the new version soon. I will keep all posted once I have seen it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111064\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The link to HPs' website mentions nothing about price or ordering.
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rdonson
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« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2007, 06:02:43 PM »
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The link to HPs' website mentions nothing about price or ordering.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111065\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I saw it on Amazon for $785.22 and from DTGWeb for $899.  You can find it with a number of the price search tools as well.

I don't know where others are getting it though.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
marty m
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« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2007, 08:03:33 PM »
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I'm confident HP will fix it.  As soon as I can profile 11x17 sheets that is. 
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The only thing that can be said with 100 percent accuracy is that two of us received diametrically opposed responses from HP.  HP tech support for the APS in Idaho  talked to the design engineers for APS and told me that there are no confirmed plans to fix the 24" limitation for the largest target.  Panascape has been told the opposite by the team in Spain.  Since HP doesn't post on this forum -- and HP doesn't even post on their own forums (which are completely useless for that reason) -- no one knows for certain what HP is doing.  

So don't engage in wishful thinking and simply hope that dreams come true.  You're hoping that HP will fix it because like the rest of us, you bought a $4000 printer, and premised that on HP's advertised claims for the APS.  Now you discover after placing the order that the APS is junk that doesn't work except with 24" paper, and apparently doesn't work at all with an official HP-branded paper.

Join the crowd.  No one even knew about this problem until I discovered it and posted it in the first thread on this topic that you can find here:

[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=15543]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=15543[/url]

Bottom line -- Don't buy based on the promise of a beta version.  Don't even buy based upon delivery of an actual beta version.  None of that helps you.

Don't buy until you know that HP has officially released a new version that fixes these problems.

Otherwise, you are just a sucker being separated from his money.  Unlike the rest of us -- who didn't know about this problem -- you've been warned.

If you really want HP to feel the pressure to fix the APS, the best way is through the marketplace -- by not buying the software.  If no one is buying the APS, then HP will feel the pressure to fix the APS asap.  

Nothing gets the attention of a company faster than a halt to sales.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 08:08:36 PM by marty m » Logged
Greg_E
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« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2007, 08:20:24 PM »
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No way I would buy it for $900! I would sooner throw a little more money at the i1 Photo package and have greater versatility.
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Charles Gast
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« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2007, 09:42:47 PM »
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With this printer having a computer built into it along with a spectro it only profiles with a 500 chip target? Oh, unless I fork over another $800 - $900?

*OUCH*

I certainly can't afford to pay for this surprise even if it printed the large target on a single A4.  This is a strange introduction to HP.
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Panascape
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« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2007, 02:12:34 AM »
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HP tech support for the APS in Idaho  talked to the design engineers for APS and told me that there are no confirmed plans to fix the 24" limitation for the largest target.  Panascape has been told the opposite by the team in Spain. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111086\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Marty, the big differenceis that I am talking to the right people in Spain and so far HP has delivered everything they have promissed me.

I am waiting for the beta but I have in the mean time seen parts of the change list for APS 1.2.x

As I am not under NDA and have not been asked to keep this quiet here is an extract...

"Test chart layout that best fits the paper loaded: The test chart will be automatically placed on the paper in order to provide maximum flexibility for the user, reducing paper consumption and enabling all sizes roll support. More concretely, the layout options provided in v1.20 are:

o        Predefined: Cut to allow re-measure / not optimized
o        Optimized for paper width: Layout optimized for paper consumption. It works with any roll sizes.
o        Cut to allow re-measure When working in “offline" workflows (that is when the user wants to reuse (scan) an already printed test chart) the application calculates the minimum paper length needed to allow the printer to reload the chart without issues.
o        Both options: optimized and allow re-measure."

Let me add that while HP may be playing very cool on the surface with regards to the numerous issues, I get the strong impression that there is serious pressure internally to fix all the issues.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 07:41:01 AM by Panascape » Logged
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