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Author Topic: Z3100 ink consumption  (Read 5432 times)
ThePhotoDude
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« on: April 03, 2007, 09:42:12 AM »
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Hi all,

I am looking into getting one of these printers and I am trying to do a cost study on how much it is going to cost me to run.
I have phoned HP and got frustrated at the person who took the call, she was unable to point me in the right direction.

I have the cost of the inks and the cost of the papers but very little idea how much ink is consumed / sq.meter on the different papers. HP is unable to help (at least in my experience this afternoon phoning them).

I have found a little bit of info here in the LL forums but not enough to really see the running costs, on each paper, and certainly not enough to purchase the hardware without knowing what I am getting into.

Questions :
A - Is this information available? On every HP paper can I get a list or table of how much ink is laid down, giving certain coverage, or range etc.

B - The management software that comes with the printer seems to give this information (does it?), but what exactly IS this software called (I downloaded the HP Color Center and Easy Printer Care but they only work if you have the printer attached - difficult before I have actually bought it), and can I use it before I buy the printer?

This is frustrating as it is the only information I am unsure of... Any help much appriciated.

Thanks, john
« Last Edit: April 03, 2007, 09:42:51 AM by ThePhotoDude » Logged
zirmedien
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2007, 10:04:04 AM »
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Round about 11 ml/sq meter.
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marcsitkin
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2007, 12:52:03 PM »
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Here's an accounting report from the Z3100.
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Regards,

Marc Sitkin
www.digitalmomentum.com
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2007, 01:29:29 PM »
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Round about 11 ml/sq meter.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My estimation too, possibly 10 ml/sq meter. About 30 well lit landscapes/cityscapes, 0.75 sgm image size prints with little color in the skies and I am at 8 ml/sq meter with the Litho-realistic media profile + custom profile that I use on PhotoRag Bright White. That media profile has a wide gamut = in this case a high ink limit for matte paper. the average image content will be denser. Inks used most LG, MK, Y, in that order. The Epson 10000 and 9000 are consuming a lot more in my experience and not all on paper.

Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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Mussi_Spectraflow
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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2007, 05:37:01 PM »
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really tough question to answer. you can use the figure 1ml sqft, and it will be ballpark. The ink costs are similar to the epson, around $.49 ml. What you really have to consider is what media types will comprise most of your printing, are you going to use the Gloss enhancer, what type of coverage, what type of imagery? This can push the figure up or down a significant amount. probably the biggest cost factor is waste, and in this respect the Hp should offer improvements over the competition. No ink changes do, and virtually no head cleanings. This however will be slightly offset by the fact that the heads are going to be replaced from time to time. In general however I expect the cost to put ink on paper to run slightly lower than comparable printers in an average setting.

Julian Mussi
www.spectraflow.com
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Julian Mussi

Spectraflow, Color Workflow Solutions
www.Spectraflow.com
jpmulligan
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« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2007, 09:12:16 PM »
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How much ink is used during the initial printer setup? The Epsons dump a whole bunch into the waste overflow tank during this process, is it the same situation with the Z3100?
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2007, 01:36:41 AM »
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How much ink is used during the initial printer setup? The Epsons dump a whole bunch into the waste overflow tank during this process, is it the same situation with the Z3100?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


No, the Z3100 isn't wasting ink at all in cleanings so far and little in the setup.

Ernst Dinkla

try:  [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 01:41:27 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
ThePhotoDude
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2007, 04:03:33 AM »
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Wow, Thanks for all the great input :

The accounting report that marcsitkin posted averaged out at 9.1 ml / sq meter which fits right into the 10-11 ml /sq meter estimates that zirmedien and Ernst Dinkla suggested and that was over a wide range of media types.

@ Mussi_Spectraflow your 1ml / sq/ft = 10.76ml / sq/m , but you mention different media. Does a glossy paper use MORE ink, or less, and how about canvas, or Matte. It seems logical that a glossy will require less ink and matte and canvas require more, but stuff I read read seems to indicate this is not true??

So much to learn, I appreciate everyones help.  
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deelight
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2007, 04:21:43 AM »
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@ Mussi_Spectraflow your 1ml / sq/ft = 10.76ml / sq/m , but you mention different media. Does a glossy paper use MORE ink, or less, and how about canvas, or Matte. It seems logical that a glossy will require less ink and matte and canvas require more, but stuff I read read seems to indicate this is not true??

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110537\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Ink consumption is significantly different, instant dry semigloss for example uses 1,5-2x more ink than Litho matte.

Best,

Clem
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namartinnz
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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2007, 05:05:55 AM »
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Ink consumption is significantly different, instant dry semigloss for example uses 1,5-2x more ink than Litho matte.

Best,

Clem
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110541\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Here's some stats I gleaned from my last 30 jobs:

100% Cotton Canvas  4.82sqm, 26.25ml
Epson Premium Luster 7.03sqm, 106.1ml

Big Difference between the two

Another note print head usage. With the ink about 30% used the heads reported about 3% usage. Backs up initial reports of replacing heads after using 10 ink cartridges.

Neal
www.photorestoration.co.nz
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EirWil
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« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2007, 06:32:18 PM »
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Ok question the ink cartridges are 130ml right so is that 11ml per cartridge used per sq meter or all together.  I am thinking of buying the z3100 and will be doing large 44 x 48 prints just want to know how many I can get from a set of cartridges.  I love what I have read so far especially about the speed and ease of set up.  One of my only concerns is lack of bulk or continous ink for the printer.  Does anyone think this will change in the forseable future?

Help!
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namartinnz
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« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2007, 09:49:38 PM »
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Ok question the ink cartridges are 130ml right so is that 11ml per cartridge used per sq meter or all together.  I am thinking of buying the z3100 and will be doing large 44 x 48 prints just want to know how many I can get from a set of cartridges.  I love what I have read so far especially about the speed and ease of set up.  One of my only concerns is lack of bulk or continous ink for the printer.  Does anyone think this will change in the forseable future?

Help!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111079\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually that's around 11ml/sqm total, not each cartridge, depending on type of colour printed that's around 1ml/cartridge average. That's a lot of sqm to print. If they can do bulk carts for the x600 and x800 Epson series, who knows what is possible for the Z in the future?

Neal
www.photorestoration.co.nz
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EirWil
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2007, 11:23:59 PM »
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So what will it cost me respectfully to print a sq meter or better yet 44x48 at roughly 11 mil per sqm?

Anyone...?

Quote
Actually that's around 11ml/sqm total, not each cartridge, depending on type of colour printed that's around 1ml/cartridge average. That's a lot of sqm to print. If they can do bulk carts for the x600 and x800 Epson series, who knows what is possible for the Z in the future?

Neal
www.photorestoration.co.nz
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111099\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2007, 03:49:46 AM »
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So what will it cost me respectfully to print a sq meter or better yet 44x48 at roughly 11 mil per sqm?

Anyone...?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I guess that you are not in the USA when you ask for sqm so here is a message that I wrote some months ago, Z3100 ink price is like the Epson wide formats if you buy the twin pack = 260 ml, but ink use on the Epsons is considerably higher (but it doesn't land on the paper) :

All German prices found with Preisroboter.de

Usually the price in Germany is lower than in the rest of Europe
and a wider supply is available. Pricing without VAT, MWST,
BTW or whatever name is used for that tax in Europe. No P&P
was included either. While pricing in the US is lower most of
the time, the P&P will be higher and it is hard to foresee
what customs in Europe adds. The Epson UC and K3 carts are in
the same price category, the 500 ml 10600 UC carts as well.
The Canon 700 ml carts are not really a bargain if compared to
the Epson and HP carts at approx 1/3 capacity. But actual ink
use is printer related and may disturb the simple economics of
this list completely. The real costs can only be experienced
in daily use.

0,91 Euro per ml Epson 1400 etc (Claria) 7,4 ml = 6,47

0,73 Euro per ml HP 9180 28 ml = 20,55 Euro

0.73 Euro per ml Epson 2400 13 ml = 9,44 Euro

0,45 Euro per ml Epson 3800 80 ml = 36,30 Euro   

0,45 Euro per ml Canon iPF5000 130 ml = 58,80 Euro

0,41 Euro per ml Canon iPF9000 330 ml = 135,57 Euro

0,37 Euro per ml HP Z3100 130 ml = 47,47 Euro

0,33 Euro per ml Epson 9800 110 ml = 36,38 Euro

0,32 Euro per ml Canon iPF9000 700 ml = 226,29 Euro

0,29 Euro per ml HP Z3100 twin pack 260 ml = 75,50 Euro

0,26 Euro per ml Epson 9800 220 ml = 58,09 Euro

end of message

With the Z3100 your 1 sqm imagesize on PhotoRag will take 10.5 ml on average = 3.- Euro without VAT. On gloss with and without gloss enhancer it will be 4.5 - 6.- Euro if the numbers quoted in the other messages are correct. Be careful with cost estimations for customers if you do not know the image and you have to print many of the same. A Paris nightscene takes a lot more ink than that cute Berlin polar bear on a white blanket.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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EirWil
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« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2007, 11:44:12 AM »
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I am sorry I am in the US I was just using the sqm because that was what someone early was quoting.  This euro deal has got me all confused if someone wants to convert it to US great and better yet square inches I will buy you lunch.  In the US of course LOL.

Help!

Quote
I guess that you are not in the USA when you ask for sqm so here is a message that I wrote some months ago, Z3100 ink price is like the Epson wide formats if you buy the twin pack = 260 ml, but ink use on the Epsons is considerably higher (but it doesn't land on the paper) :

All German prices found with Preisroboter.de

Usually the price in Germany is lower than in the rest of Europe
and a wider supply is available. Pricing without VAT, MWST,
BTW or whatever name is used for that tax in Europe. No P&P
was included either. While pricing in the US is lower most of
the time, the P&P will be higher and it is hard to foresee
what customs in Europe adds. The Epson UC and K3 carts are in
the same price category, the 500 ml 10600 UC carts as well.
The Canon 700 ml carts are not really a bargain if compared to
the Epson and HP carts at approx 1/3 capacity. But actual ink
use is printer related and may disturb the simple economics of
this list completely. The real costs can only be experienced
in daily use.

0,91 Euro per ml Epson 1400 etc (Claria) 7,4 ml = 6,47

0,73 Euro per ml HP 9180 28 ml = 20,55 Euro

0.73 Euro per ml Epson 2400 13 ml = 9,44 Euro

0,45 Euro per ml Epson 3800 80 ml = 36,30 Euro   

0,45 Euro per ml Canon iPF5000 130 ml = 58,80 Euro

0,41 Euro per ml Canon iPF9000 330 ml = 135,57 Euro

0,37 Euro per ml HP Z3100 130 ml = 47,47 Euro

0,33 Euro per ml Epson 9800 110 ml = 36,38 Euro

0,32 Euro per ml Canon iPF9000 700 ml = 226,29 Euro

0,29 Euro per ml HP Z3100 twin pack 260 ml = 75,50 Euro

0,26 Euro per ml Epson 9800 220 ml = 58,09 Euro

end of message

With the Z3100 your 1 sqm imagesize on PhotoRag will take 10.5 ml on average = 3.- Euro without VAT. On gloss with and without gloss enhancer it will be 4.5 - 6.- Euro if the numbers quoted in the other messages are correct. Be careful with cost estimations for customers if you do not know the image and you have to print many of the same. A Paris nightscene takes a lot more ink than that cute Berlin polar bear on a white blanket.
Ernst Dinkla

try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111117\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2007, 03:06:38 PM »
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I am sorry I am in the US I was just using the sqm because that was what someone early was quoting.  This euro deal has got me all confused if someone wants to convert it to US great and better yet square inches I will buy you lunch.  In the US of course LOL.

Help!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The list order will not change much whether in dollar or Euro. There are 11 square feet in a sqm. 1.34 Dollars in a Euro but US ink prices are usually lower. I think that it is wiser to keep ml as a unit, though there will be some obscure imperial unit for that too. With this you could do the math.

Alright, 1 square foot takes 1 ml on Photorag and it will cost you 0.37 Dollar or less.
The other papers 1.5x or with gloss enhancer 2x 0.37 Dollar or less. On a Z3100.

It must have been early or late when I wrote that the first time, corrected it.

I know that the Euro Dollar ratio confuses the US in general, there will be a day that square inches printed / dollar may be easier on the eyes :-)


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 10:52:15 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
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