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Author Topic: Opinions on HDR  (Read 22439 times)
jani
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« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2007, 10:44:50 AM »
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The process of converting an HDR image to 8/16-bit is called tone-mapping, so I think tone-mapped HDR is a pretty good description of what we're talking about.
Not really, because the end result isn't an image with a high dynamic range. The end result is a quite normal dynamic range.

But seen from that point of view, "compressed dynamic range" is almost as bad, because it might give the impression that the dynamic range is somehow worse than for another image.

Perhaps simply "tone-mapped dynamic range" is accurate enough, as long as that is the technique being used.

But I'm starting to warm up to "compressed high dynamic range".
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Jan
markhout
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« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2007, 01:36:33 PM »
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FWIW, I'm learning to use HDR not to get an overtly artificial look, but rather to explore the dynamic range in the image. This is an initial test (3 merged images), straight from Photomatix with only saturation toned down and sharpened for web use:

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wmchauncey
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« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2007, 03:11:08 PM »
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Mark, I liked your last HDR, but I have some questions from a newbee.
What were your camera settings and what glass did you use?

And for others, does anyone use CS3 for HDR and what results obtained?
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markhout
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« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2007, 08:07:07 AM »
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Mark, I liked your last HDR, but I have some questions from a newbee.
What were your camera settings and what glass did you use?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123022\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is a high dynamic range image, from 3 exposures, one with average exposure, one 2 stops over average and one 2 stops under average. Merged with Photomatix; levels, some saturation, cropping, cloning, sharpening and jpeg conversion in PS CS.

More tech data:
Nikon D80, Tokina 12-24mm at 12mm, f/9, 1/320, 1/80 and 1/20 sec exposures, ISO 100. RAW files corrected for white balance only, converted to TIFF before HDR generation in Photomatix. And a tripod, of course.

Here's another one, with similar settings. Also see my Flickr page (the url is in my footer):
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Digiteyesed
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« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2007, 12:10:41 PM »
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I've been playing with Photomatix as well. Here's an example of an image I've produced with it:

http://www.urbanrefugee.ca/example08.php
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2007, 06:25:42 PM »
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I downloaded photomatix and gave it a try the result is washed out and grey? I convert into Dcam3 colorspace and that is my working colorspace in photoshop is that possibly the problem? I've tried default settings and all sorts of slider combinations. I shot -2, 0, +2 not sure how everyone is getting such nice results?
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
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« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2007, 08:25:24 PM »
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I downloaded photomatix and gave it a try the result is washed out and grey? I convert into Dcam3 colorspace and that is my working colorspace in photoshop is that possibly the problem? I've tried default settings and all sorts of slider combinations. I shot -2, 0, +2 not sure how everyone is getting such nice results?
Marc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123195\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not sure about dcam3, but I did find that using the ProPhoto colorspace results in a much too saturated HDR image. The images shown above in this thread are sRGB's all the way throuh (i.e. raw file processed into sRGB space). Also, although my examples above are in +2, 0, -2, I founds that sometimes +3, +2, +1, 0, -1, -2, -3 gives an even better result. Finally, did you try to use straight RAW files into Photomatix? Sometimes the Photomatix RAW processing is not ideal.

Can you post a jpeg of the file you refer to?

Hope this works,

Mark
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2007, 08:35:46 PM »
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Not sure about dcam3, but I did find that using the ProPhoto colorspace results in a much too saturated HDR image. The images shown above in this thread are sRGB's all the way throuh (i.e. raw file processed into sRGB space). Also, although my examples above are in +2, 0, -2, I founds that sometimes +3, +2, +1, 0, -1, -2, -3 gives an even better result. Finally, did you try to use straight RAW files into Photomatix? Sometimes the Photomatix RAW processing is not ideal.

Can you post a jpeg of the file you refer to?

Hope this works,

Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123218\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark
I used DXO to convert into tiffs (dcam3 colorspace)
The original (single exposure) conversion, the final (single exposure) and the HDR
Marc
[attachment=2645:attachment][attachment=2644:attachment][attachment=2646:attachm
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Marc McCalmont
markhout
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« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2007, 04:36:00 PM »
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Mark
I used DXO to convert into tiffs (dcam3 colorspace)
The original (single exposure) conversion, the final (single exposure) and the HDR
Marc
[attachment=2645:attachment][attachment=2644:attachment][attachment=2646:attachm
ent]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123222\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
OK - I thought you had taken 3 differently exposed pictures. The HDR doesn't look bad though. The histogram (attached) is quite nice, it may not be the ideal image to start off with (it's pretty monochromatic - only blue!), but I'm sure that if you tinker around in Photomatix you'll get what you want.[attachment=2650:attachment]
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2007, 12:23:04 AM »
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OK - I thought you had taken 3 differently exposed pictures. The HDR doesn't look bad though. The histogram (attached) is quite nice, it may not be the ideal image to start off with (it's pretty monochromatic - only blue!), but I'm sure that if you tinker around in Photomatix you'll get what you want.[attachment=2650:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123361\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The HDR was from 3 exposures -2,0,+2
Why did the foam turn out grey in the HDR not white?
The grey in the stone arch doesn't look right either,
As you say maybe not the correct scene for starters?
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
markhout
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« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2007, 09:41:21 PM »
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The HDR was from 3 exposures -2,0,+2
Why did the foam turn out grey in the HDR not white?
The grey in the stone arch doesn't look right either,
As you say maybe not the correct scene for starters?
Marc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123428\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Someone noted earlier that HDR is in actual fact rather a compression of the dynamic range, and that's what you see in the histogram. This is an initially very contrasty scene that due to the HDR processing gets compressed without clipping in the histogram. Tweaking the HDR settings in Photomatix will allow you to get white foam, and otherwise a levels/curves tweak in PS after the HDR processing will get you there. Also, in the course of experimenting with Photomatix I found that some scenes require more than just+2 and -2 steps.
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2007, 02:54:35 AM »
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Someone noted earlier that HDR is in actual fact rather a compression of the dynamic range, and that's what you see in the histogram. This is an initially very contrasty scene that due to the HDR processing gets compressed without clipping in the histogram. Tweaking the HDR settings in Photomatix will allow you to get white foam, and otherwise a levels/curves tweak in PS after the HDR processing will get you there. Also, in the course of experimenting with Photomatix I found that some scenes require more than just+2 and -2 steps.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123646\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks
I'll keep trying
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
tagor
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« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2007, 01:22:17 PM »
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And for others, does anyone use CS3 for HDR and what results obtained?
CS3 works ok for creating HDR images (merging files into a 32bit floating point HDR image), but the tonemapping options it provides are VERY poor.

-- Tilo
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photographist
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« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2007, 10:36:30 AM »
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At Outback Photo, Uwe and Bettina have taken an interesting path with HDR.  They've published a number of HDR based images that are touch the artificial issues noted herein, but for the subject, they gave a dreamy, otherworldly feel.  I personally liked it.

They also have outlined an HDR workflow that lends itself better to the landscape environment.  They use HDR to create a well balanced image, but have noted that often the highlights or "the sparkle of the image" is lost.   They take the final HDR generated image and selectively overlay the original "single image", recapturing that spectral and light feel.   The additional step can make a world of difference!


Outback photo can be found at  http://www.outbackphoto.com/index_news.html
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2007, 10:54:16 AM »
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Still not really convinced.

I am yet to see a realistic application of HDR software that clearly tops a quick overlay and masking in PS.

Cheers,
Bernard
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jani
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« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2007, 01:53:39 PM »
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Quick is the key word for me.  I'm learning, and by no means an expert, but I've been finding moderate use of HDR compression faster in areas that would require complex or precise masking.

Which of these images is using HDR compression?
Image 1
Image 2
The white pages look completely identical to me.  
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Jan
Forsh
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« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2007, 09:40:13 PM »
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I tend to feel that HDR is only a great tool if the shot really has the dynamic range to justify it. Otherwise its hard to get natural looking results.Nice photos though!
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I agree. Some of my best HDR work comes when I shoot things that would otherwise be impossible to capture, such as:


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or

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The dynamic range required to actually capture these images is just astounding, and HDR+tonemapping helps capture an otherwise hard to capture scene.
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china english news My HDR Photography from Okinawa Japan.  | teach english in china Other from Okinawa Japan. So what do you do? You don't want create a
Gordon Buck
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« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2007, 01:16:54 PM »
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I've posted some of my own HDR efforts at My Webpage

These images are the result of various experimenting with CS3 and Photomatix (standalone and plugin).  The cameras were either the Canon 20D or Canon G3.  Exposures varied between 2 and 7.  Most were made with camera mounted on the tripod but some were handheld.

Some of my images are a bit "over the top" but I like them anyway.  Early on, I was intentionally trying to get a "different" look but now I'm tending to try for a more photographic look.

It is very convenient to set the 20D for a 3 shot autobracket at -2, 0, +2; brace myself and fire away.  I then ask CS3 to align the resulting individual images.  Seems to work.
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TerryM
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« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2007, 11:11:39 AM »
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I also have found that Photomatix is great on some photos, but not on others. If there is a wide, dynamic light range and a wide tonal range, it will probably do well. Otherwise, forget it.

Here is one I did that came out rather well. shot from the top of Clingmans Dome in TN/NC.

http://www.pbase.com/terrym123/image/78695389
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lightpause
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« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2007, 10:00:01 PM »
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I really enjoy producing HDR images, what I don't like in HDR is the "abuse" of the technology. By abuse I mean people that manipulate their photos in a way that is not realistic. When I produce a HDR image as with any other image I try to recreate the moment I lived on the location rather than produce a over edited image.
I think though this is a personal opinion and many people I know like the "over edited" results HDR produces, though for me I would be more inclined in leaving the HDR processing to a very soft level, something that you look at and you think that it might be HDR but you are not sure.
Having said that, Photomatix is surely one of the best spent money I ever spent.

All the best,

Rod
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