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Author Topic: Problem with Adobe licensing  (Read 15632 times)
Kenneth Sky
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« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2007, 01:17:59 PM »
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I agree that mixing technical and licensing issues is like comparing apples and oranges. However, there seems to be a common thread in dealing with customer problems. I doubt it is arrogance so much as lack of empathy - not being able to see issues from the customer's point of view. As in so many things, perception is reality. The customer just wants it fixed. Large corporations need to get a customer ombudsman on board to improve public relations.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2007, 05:54:49 PM »
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I doubt it is arrogance so much as lack of empathy - not being able to see issues from the customer's point of view. As in so many things, perception is reality. The customer just wants it fixed. Large corporations need to get a customer ombudsman on board to improve public relations.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120005\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, when a branch like Adobe Japan defines a clear non PC -> Mac migration policy, and informs all its sells reps about it so that they all provide the exact same answer on this topic, I wouldn't speak about empathy.

This is a pro-active move from them to milk the many people who are currently considering switching from PC to Mac.

Prior to that, you cannot help notice that Adobe products are 40% more expensive in Japan than in the US, even if you buy the exact same English version of the product. Which is in fact stupid since nobody prevents me from buying that English version from Amazon.com...

If Adobe had competition, they wouldn't be able to act the way they do in Japan. The very fact that they agree to migrate from PC to Mac IN Japan for their video product line, a field where there is a lot more competition, is a confirmation of this...

Considering all these factors, it becomes hard in my mind to rule out a mix of arrogance and greed as a core motivation.

Regards,
Bernard
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 05:38:21 AM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2007, 08:14:40 PM »
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If Adobe had competition, they wouldn't be able to act the way they do in Japan. The very fact that they agree to migrate from PC to Mac IN Japan for their video product line, a field where there is a lot more competition, is a confirmation of this...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120037\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Additional information. It seems that Adobe Japan does in fact accept to migrate site licenses from PC to Mac...

Things are getting to look real bad here... If you are a large customer buying many licenses, you get a normal level of service, while the small guys who cannot afford to negociate get screwed. Real nice.

Regards,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2007, 05:40:50 PM »
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For those interested, I have now contacted high level people in the Adobe PS developement team in the US, as well as Matthew Thomson, VP of sales for Adobe.

No answer at this point of time...

Could it be that the problem I am facing in Japan is not just with Adobe Japan?

Regards,
Bernard
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francois
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« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2007, 03:51:55 AM »
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For those interested, I have now contacted high level people in the Adobe PS developement team in the US, as well as Matthew Thomson, VP of sales for Adobe.

No answer at this point of time...

Could it be that the problem I am facing in Japan is not just with Adobe Japan?

Regards,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120309\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't want to discourage you but in the early 90s I had to fight 2 years with Adobe Europe for upgrades. They claimed that I was using US versions of Photoshop and that was illegal and therefore I could not upgrade. In they end, they admited that I was not using US versions and agreed to upgrade.
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Francois
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« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2007, 08:08:27 AM »
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Francois,

Yep, I know that it will be hard, but I have some connections in the Japanese imaging press, and I think that I have a reasonnable chance to make some noise on this story. It might end up costing Adobe 100 times more than it would if they just said yes to me.

The future will tell.

From a rational standpoint, I should just give up, but I have always liked the stories of the small guy that can bring a large corporation to behave well. I am willling to waste a lot of my free time on this.

Cheers,
Bernard
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francois
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« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2007, 08:13:35 AM »
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Francois,

Yep, I know that it will be hard, but I have some connections in the Japanese imaging press, and I think that I have a reasonnable chance to make some noise on this story. It might end up costing Adobe 100 times more than it would if they just said yes to me.

The future will tell.

From a rational standpoint, I should just give up, but I have always liked the stories of the small guy that can bring a large corporation to behave well. I am willling to waste a lot of my free time on this.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120405\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Bernard,
Good luck and as we all know Tout vient point pour qui sait attendre.
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Francois
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« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2007, 05:38:10 PM »
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Bernard,
Good luck and as we all know Tout vient point pour qui sait attendre.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120407\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the support, it is nice to see that some folks around here share my concern and dare express it.  

It seems reasonnable to assume that the current policy of Adobe Japan has a good chance of becoming worldwide very soon.

Regards,
Bernard
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Kumar
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« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2007, 06:00:13 PM »
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I don't want to discourage you but in the early 90s I had to fight 2 years with Adobe Europe for upgrades. They claimed that I was using US versions of Photoshop and that was illegal and therefore I could not upgrade. In they end, they admited that I was not using US versions and agreed to upgrade.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120378\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I too live in Japan. After looking at the Japanese prices for Photoshop, I got a friend to buy me a copy in the US, and registered it with Adobe Japan. That went off smoothly. I'm not in a hurry to upgrade yet, but I don't think it would be a problem. I'll see when the time comes

Bernard, I hope you get your crossgrade soon. We might see Adobe Japan's head honcho apologizing to the Japanese public on NHK!

Cheers,
Kumar
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2007, 07:20:40 PM »
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I too live in Japan. After looking at the Japanese prices for Photoshop, I got a friend to buy me a copy in the US, and registered it with Adobe Japan. That went off smoothly. I'm not in a hurry to upgrade yet, but I don't think it would be a problem. I'll see when the time comes

Bernard, I hope you get your crossgrade soon. We might see Adobe Japan's head honcho apologizing to the Japanese public on NHK!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120521\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Kumar,

Thanks for the encouragement. My goal is clearly not to start a crusade, but just to get what I feel is a fair treatment.

I have spent a total of 450.000 Yen (3700 US$) on Adobe products over the past 4 years, and I just cannot accept the way they are handling this matter. Those people who got their copy of PS in Shanghai for 10 US$ are probably laughing their ass off me big time when they read this thread.

That's a clear look at what our bright future is. Collectively, our stupid trend to support monopolies can only result in prices going up and quality of service going down. The most unbearable thing is that the honnest faithful customers are screwed again.

Regards,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2007, 08:59:26 PM »
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Quick update for those still interested in this horror movie.

After further investigations with Adobe Japan, it seems that site licenses under the TLP program might be a solution to this issue.

The only drawback being... that I need to create a legal entity - in other words a company - in order to be able to order site licenses. TLP is surprisingly OK from 1 license onwards.

Once this is done, it seems that it is possible to update package licenses to site licenses and that cross-platform licensing from PC to Mac and vise versa is also allowed. It is of course needed to order the physical media separately from the licenses, but this is also possible at very reasonnable cost. The total license + media is actually cheaper under TLP than it is for package products, even for a single license.

I just don't get why they allow this for TLP, but don't allow it for package products. Creating a company just to migrate licenses from PC to Mac is also not something I was planning on doing and it is obviously a major PITA, especially in Japan. The exact cost of this, as well as the time I am going to waste are still unclear.

Still really mad.

Regards,
Bernard
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2007, 10:31:30 PM »
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Ouch!  
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Kumar
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« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2007, 12:54:45 AM »
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Bernard,

I'm not sure if this will help, but anyway...
I believe it is possible to open a bank account in your personal name, including a title - say Bernard Languillier, President, Bernard Languillier Images. Just print up some stationery in the name of the business. If I remember correctly, your exhibition in Tokyo was in a bank? They might be able to help, perhaps. Also, I've been told that unless there's a K.K. or similar after the name of the business, it generally means that the business is unincorporated.

Please feel free to correct me

Cheers,
Kumar
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2007, 02:05:30 AM »
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Dear all,

Breaking news. Breaking news. Breaking news.

I got a call from Adobe customer center a few minutes ago. They told me that it had become possible to migrate PC licenses to Mac thanks to a special procedure through the Adobe Store. They will send me an email with a form that has to be filled with the Serial number of existine PC products etc...

Breaking news. Breaking news. Breaking news.

I will not have to create a company it seems.  

It obviously took more time and effort than I was hoping, but I am definitely thankful to Adobe Japan for this nice move.

To whomever helped me on this matter in the background, a big thank you!

Regards,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 03:08:20 AM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

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francois
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« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2007, 03:04:28 AM »
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Dear all,

Breaking news. Breaking news. Breaking news.

I got a call from Adobe customer center a few minutes ago. They told me that it had become possible to migrate PC licenses to Mac thanks to a special procedure though the Adobe Store. They will send me an email with a form that has to be filled with the Serial number of existine PC products etc...

Breaking news. Breaking news. Breaking news.

I will not have to create a company it seems.   

It obviously took more time and effort than I was hoping, but I am definitely thankful to Adobe Japan for this nice move.

To whomever helped me on this matter in the background, a big thank you!

Regards,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121193\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Good time to open a Champagne bottle!
Have a good day and enjoy your victory.

 
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Francois
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« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2007, 03:11:31 AM »
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Good time to open a Champagne bottle!
Have a good day and enjoy your victory.

 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121196\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'll do that when I'll have the code installed and running on the Mac Pro.  Brilliant machine by the way!

If this one is indeed confirmed to be solved, all I still need to do is to fix my live storage issue...

Photography must have been a nice field when photographers didn't have to be IT experts.

Cheers,
Bernard
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francois
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« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2007, 04:45:02 AM »
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I'll do that when I'll have the code installed and running on the Mac Pro.

Yep, that would be wise.
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Francois
Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2007, 07:51:38 AM »
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That's fantastic news, Bernard!
Good luck with the migration.

I must say I'm just a little disappointed that I probably won't get to see the office tower of Bernard Languillier International rising on the New York Skyline for a while.  

Eric
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francois
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« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2007, 07:57:35 AM »
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...I must say I'm just a little disappointed that I probably won't get to see the office tower of Bernard Languillier International rising on the New York Skyline for a while.  
...
Who knows? Bernard might open a new business - like business counsel - and have his building pretty soon. I hope to be invited for the grand opening party.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 08:12:24 AM by francois » Logged

Francois
Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2007, 09:22:31 AM »
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Who knows? Bernard might open a new business - like business counsel - and have his building pretty soon. I hope to be invited for the grand opening party.
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... and for the opening exhibit!
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