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Author Topic: Monitors laarger than 24 inches  (Read 28409 times)
Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2007, 12:50:50 PM »
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Any info as to when the XL30 will be available?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115826\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

One article stated August 2007.
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Roberto Chaves
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« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2007, 01:29:52 PM »
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Wow, 3000:1 contrast ratio, 2560x1600, full Adobe RGB, built-in calibration, around $3K. That's a lot of money but it's also a tool you could enjoy using for at least 10 years.

Would be perfect if it could swivel to portrait mode. Retouching a portrait image with a 2560 pixel high screen would be fantastic.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115813\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The thing that worries me is that they mention 3000:1 dynamic contrast..  I'm guessing it will work as most of todays LCD projectors, that it will change brightness depending on the content. That is if the picture shown on screen is dark then it will decrease lightness and if it's bright then increase it.
I don't want any fake contrast values like this..
Having a real 3000:1 constrast at the range 150 cd/m2 to 0.05 cd/m2 would be nice.

What I find almost always missing from monitors specs is the darkest blackpoint.
Most manufacturers try getting high contrast values by increasing maximum lightness instead of decreasing blackpoint, which gives you a much lower real contrast as soon as you calibrate the monitor to a usable lightness around 120-150 cd/m2.

I agree that it would be wonderfull to work on photos at 2560 pixels (or higher!).
IBM sold (or still sells?) some screen with 200 and 400 ppi resolution. Would be terrific to to retouch in 1:1 resolution compared to printing, so having a 24" 300 ppi screen would be really nice.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 01:30:06 PM by Roberto Chaves » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2007, 01:41:28 PM »
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Here is a link to the IBM monitor I mentioned (T221):

http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/fi/intellist...o/why_t221.html

This is the 204 ppi one, that is 9.2 MPixels!

It probably isn't good for retouching, don't know about color gamut, viewing angles or response time..

For further information on this display and some rebranded versions by Viewsonice etc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T221
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« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2007, 03:04:21 PM »
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Another vote for the NEC 2690 - with the Spectraview option - a dream to callibrate.
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And another vote for the NEC 2690.  

We had the GM Eye-One Pro, so we bought the display only and added the Spectraview software download from NM-Select.com.  Calibration of the onboard 12-bit LUT and profiling are fast and easy; viewing angle is exceptional; according to the specs, 91% of the RGB color gamut is displayed (its truly a joy to work with); and for those of us who need portrait in the camera room and landscape in the work room, auto image rotation allows image switching between portait and landscape automatically.

Two thumbs up!
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2007, 08:05:21 PM »
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I found this page interesting. Samsung 305T v Dell 3007WFP HC:

http://www.behardware.com/art/imprimer/661/

The Dell looks like a great bang-for-the-buck display, with a decently wide gamut. The uneven backlighting is a concern. Would it be fair to assume that the new LED backlights are more even, as well as providing wider gamut?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 08:37:47 PM by foto-z » Logged

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« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2007, 03:28:51 PM »
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I'm resurrecting this thread as I am getting closer to being able to get a decent monitor.

How do you swivel between portrait and landscape on a Mac? As you rotate the monitor, does the monitor sense the orientation and let the Mac know? Does this happen automatically? Or does one have to rotate the monitor and then change a setting somewhere to change the display settings?

After so many recommendations for the NEC 2690WUXi, I had a closer look. It can be had for under EUR 1000 now, ex tax. It seems very interesting apart from disappointing resolution for the size, imo, (lower resolution than the top Macbook Pro!) and it covers only 92% of AdobeRGB gamut.

There are a few 30" monitors which look interesting (e.g. Dell 3007WFP-HC, also 92% Adobe RGB gamut), all with 2560x1600 resolution. None of these rotate, afaik, so in fact a rotated NEC 2690 in portrait orientation gives a little more vertical headroom (it's 1900x1200), but the rest of the time you get over 4 megapixels compared with 2.3 MP for the NEC. Hmm...

Are there any monitors with resolution higher than 1900x1200 which can rotate into portrait mode?

Then there's the issue of LED-backlit displays (e.g. Samsung XL30) which promise lower power consumption, better longevity, wider gamut (full AdobeRGB) and more even lighting. All very tempting, but are these out yet? How much will they be?

By the way, the rumours of a 4:3 Samsung XL30 seem to be wrong. Here are official specs of the Samsung XL30:
http://monitor.samsung.de/article.asp?arti...35F3&show=specs

As you can see, resolution is 2560 x 1600, and it is due out mid December. No hint as to price though.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2007, 04:07:04 PM by foto-z » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2007, 03:49:03 PM »
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Another vote for the NEC 2690 - with the Spectraview option - a dream to callibrate.

I too am quite happy with the unit. I've been working with it a lot on a very big project and I'm impressed.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2007, 04:45:58 PM »
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Had the Apple 23" several years ago, upgraded to the current Dell 24" at the time (about 2 years ago).  Apple was getting old and dim, the Dell looked very crisp in contrast.  Dell had more aliasing.  Since then moved to the Apple 30".  Screen size blows you away at first.  Then you get used to it and wonder how you ever managed with such puny monitors in the past!    Tried the new Dell 30 HC version, but I had 100's of dancing pixels with it.  It was returned (still waiting on that credit come to think of it...)

With the Apple and Dell 30-inchers side by side, I couldn't tell a difference between Dell's HC, 92% of the RGB space, blah, blah, blah...  It's backlighting was a bit more even.  Apple looked smoother, more pleasing.  Tried calibrating, etc.  If the Dell didn't have the dancing pixels, I would have kept the Dell just because it was new (and sold the Apple).

I've had 6 or 7 LCDs and all of them have had a 1/2 life of about 1 to 1.5 years.  The pixel response slows down, ghosting increases, backlighting wanes, color shifting becomes more of an issue.  I would buy the Dell just because I view the display as disposable items.  Maybe the new LED ones will have a longer shelf-life - at least I hope so because I'm tired of dropping around $2k every 24 months.  My current 30" just came back from apple after having its panel replaced (under the AppleCare agreement).  The backlighting started to fail about 6 months after the initial purchase.  I expect the 30" will be sent back to Apple yet again within the next 12 months.  The AppleCare warranty is $99 and extends coverage for 2 years.  Dell comes with a 3 yr warranty.  Overall the Dell is much more affordable.  Whether it's better or worse, I think it's a tie.  YMMV

On the video card, you'll need 256 MB w/ dual link DVI.  More and faster is better - aka 512 MB w/ a higher/faster GPU.  Downside is added fan noise.
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BJNY
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« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2007, 05:07:23 PM »
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Eizo's 30" is due in December:

http://www.eizo.com/press/releases/pdf/CG301W_pr.pdf
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« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2007, 05:27:41 PM »
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Thanks for the comments John.

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Tried the new Dell 30 HC version, but I had 100's of dancing pixels with it.

What are dancing pixels?

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On the video card, you'll need 256 MB w/ dual link DVI.  More and faster is better - aka 512 MB w/ a higher/faster GPU.  Downside is added fan noise.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Are you saying that the Macbook Pro with 128MB video RAM won't drive this monitor? The Apple website indicates otherwise (see [a href=\"http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html)]http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html)[/url]. Can anyone confirm from experience one way or the other?
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« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2007, 06:56:04 PM »
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EIZO seems like the Barco of yesteryear...HUGE plusses and minuses to the niche brand that no longer is with us...

LaCie, Apple + some others seem to do a very good job for a reasonable price...
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« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2007, 07:04:11 PM »
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Apple 30inch. Best monitor I have ever owned. Im pretty sure there price has gone down as well.

Mike
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John_Black
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« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2007, 08:00:43 PM »
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Thanks for the comments John.
What are dancing pixels?
Are you saying that the Macbook Pro with 128MB video RAM won't drive this monitor? The Apple website indicates otherwise (see http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html). Can anyone confirm from experience one way or the other?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143676\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dancing pixels are pixels which flicker different colors.  They are not dead pixel, just ones that twinkle.  Search "dancing pixels" on the apple discussion forums and it should return some hits from early to mid 2006.  The issue is the DVI bandwidth.  The 2560x1600 resolution is saturating buss; the data pipe is filled.  There's a clocking parameter TDM, or TDMI, something like that which can be scaled back and eases the load.    There was a utility available (3rd party) for tweaking this on ATI cards.  Time has marched on and the problem is gone with Apple monitors.  People suspected the that Apple slowed something down in the monitor rather than video card.  Who knows...  that's all speculation.  

The video card must be dual link DVI and all modern cards will be 256 MB anyway.  If you have an existing card, it'll need dual link and maybe 128 MB is sufficient, but it'll be slow.  2560x1600 (30") is alot more pixels than 1920x1200 (typical 24").  I'm using a ATI 9650 256 MB card in a G5  mac and a Nvidia 7300 GT (256 MB) card in the other Mac (new Quad 3.0 GHz w/ PCI express).  It's hard to compare the two systems because the new Quad has about 4-8x more raw horsepower than the old machine.  If you plan to use 30" on a PC, I have no experience there.

On the whole I highly recommend a 30" monitor.  It's first monitor size where I feel like a get the overall feel for the image - and I'm just shooting a 1Ds2.  I can't imagine how guys with the 39 MP backs can manage with smaller monitors.  With 30" @ 2560 x 1600 I can see 98% of the 1Ds2 image at 50% - which is pretty close to how it will look in print.
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« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2007, 06:15:44 AM »
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The 3-year extended warranty on my 30" cinema display just ran out and it remains the best monitor I've ever used. I'm also still using the very first cinema display that ever came out - a 22" model that I paid five grand for - worth every cent. I'll buy a their next 30" or larger model as well. Shopping for a cheap monitor is like using a wal mart polarizing filter...
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« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2007, 09:35:52 PM »
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I too am quite happy with the unit. I've been working with it a lot on a very big project and I'm impressed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143659\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hi Andrew

I have a quick question for you.
When we use our CRT monitors, we can adjust the contrast ratio.
How big of a issue, is it that LCD monitors have a fixed contrast ratio?
Would it be a better choice, to choose a LCD display with a low contrast ratio such as 500:1?

Best,
Esben
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 09:36:05 PM by Esben » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2007, 06:04:54 AM »
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Knowing that the readers of this board are critically evaluating their color work, I would like to pose this question for your recommendations.

I am looking at buying a larger monitor for my color work, because I often am in situations where the customer for my giclees is looking at the monitor with me to critically evaluate color before the print is made.

I would be interested in experiences of owners of monitors larger than the 24 inch DELL that I am using now, and what you might recommend.

I would like to add that I am very grateful for the several recommendations of the SINAR 54H, which based upon recommendation made here, I purchased and am using with great satisfaction.
Jerry Reed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114686\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

FOLLOW UP

As a follow up to my earlier posted question, I wanted to let everyone know that at last I have made a decision about my monitor.  In defense of my tardy pace of decision making it is not all that easy to get actionable information.  After speaking to lots of folks, I confess that I relied most upon user information in making my decision:  Folks who are fine art reproduction guys.  So, this might not be a suitable match for other photographers' pursuits.

I am ordering a EIZO 211 with hood from CHROMIX today.  Thanks again for all the exceptional feedback and shared experiences and advice -- as usual.

By the way the Sinarcam 2 works great in the 16-shot mode.  My theory is that the Mamiya 645's mirror movement was creating the loss of clarity in the shots.

Thanks again for all your excellent help,

Jerry Reed
« Last Edit: October 05, 2007, 06:05:58 AM by JerryReed » Logged

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« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2007, 06:58:20 AM »
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I'll be ordering a Eizo ColorEdge CG301W monitor,
It will be available in Sydney in about 4 weeks at a price of $4K AUS.
I can't wait.
Cheers.
WR.
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« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2007, 09:03:10 AM »
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Hi Andrew

I have a quick question for you.
When we use our CRT monitors, we can adjust the contrast ratio.
How big of a issue, is it that LCD monitors have a fixed contrast ratio?
Would it be a better choice, to choose a LCD display with a low contrast ratio such as 500:1?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143932\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, if the software allows you to do this via calibration. But yes, there is independent control over black and white.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2007, 09:36:20 AM »
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FOLLOW UP

As a follow up to my earlier posted question, I wanted to let everyone know that at last I have made a decision about my monitor.  In defense of my tardy pace of decision making it is not all that easy to get actionable information.  After speaking to lots of folks, I confess that I relied most upon user information in making my decision:  Folks who are fine art reproduction guys.  So, this might not be a suitable match for other photographers' pursuits.

I am ordering a EIZO 211 with hood from CHROMIX today.  Thanks again for all the exceptional feedback and shared experiences and advice -- as usual.

By the way the Sinarcam 2 works great in the 16-shot mode.  My theory is that the Mamiya 645's mirror movement was creating the loss of clarity in the shots.

Thanks again for all your excellent help,

Jerry Reed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

good monitor, as long as your happy with the smallish 1600x1200 size.
personally I'd wait for the 30" model, unless you dont have a machine with dual link video capabiity.
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JerryReed
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« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2007, 09:48:53 AM »
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good monitor, as long as your happy with the smallish 1600x1200 size.
personally I'd wait for the 30" model, unless you dont have a machine with dual link video capabiity.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=144016\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I was told that the contrast ratio on the awaited 30 inch model would be closer to the current (newly released in the USA) CG 241, which is 800 to 1.  For my work, a contrast ratio closer to what is achievable on canvas as the output medium is preferable.  The CG 211 has a contrast ratio of 400:1.

Like you, my interest was being able to use a larger monitor in my application, but the contrast ratio turned out to be the primary consideratiion, with the secondary consideration being the percentage of the ADOBE 1998 color space that might be displayed.

Jerry Reed
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