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Author Topic: HP dishonestly ripped us off  (Read 17985 times)
marty m
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« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2007, 01:12:37 AM »
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You are beating a dead horse.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114949\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not outside of the US, where the rebate doesn't apply.  They clearly lose about $800 on teh 24" model if the same pricing structure applies, as it apparently already does in Germany.

As for the rebate, I'm sure that many forum participants will be contacting HP and asking for clarification.  With $1000 at stake, anyone interested in any of these models would be prudent to do so.

So I'm sure we'll be receiving independent verification from more than one source in the next few days, and then we'll have an answer for the US and the US-only rebate.

You have not yet contacted HP according to your postings.  Those who have were told the rebate DOES apply to the PS model.  So I would again recommend that anyone considering buying one of these models should write to HP, and get a written response via email, since $1000 is at stake.
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Roscolo
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« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2007, 01:30:43 AM »
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Not outside of the US, where the rebate doesn't apply......

You have not yet contacted HP according to your postings.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114950\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm not in Germany. I'm going to have to let the Germans take care of themselves on this one.

Hopefully I won't won't need to be contacting HP, except to get my rebate for my z3100 and my free paper. It's on the list on the rebate submission form.

Looking forward to getting my printer so I can participate on this forum in a more productive discussion. It's getting hot in here.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 01:36:09 AM by Roscolo » Logged
KAP
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« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2007, 01:45:31 AM »
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Quote from: marty m,Apr 29 2007, 11:06 PM
Setting aside the debate over the rebate (since that doesn't apply in Europe) it appears that there is a consistent change in pricing on the retail level in both the US and Germany.  So those who bought the Z3100 one or two months ago lost the rough equivalent of US$800, either because they bought the printer separately and didn't get the APS, or because they bought the APS separately.

But you haven't lost $800. It was offered at a price you thought was fair and you decided to buy it. If HP have had to reposition the price for whatever reason, then why shouldn't they? Every time a new camera comes out the price drops after a few months, my 1DsmkII did, I thought it would, but I considered it worth the price at the time, every computer you buy drops in price. If $800 is such a life and death amount you probably shouldn't be buying the printer in the first place. If it's to make money with $800 is neither here nor there, if it's just to have fun with stop worrying about it and go have some fun with it. Does it do what you thought it would as well as you would like?
If they drop the price again ae you going to loose more money? Heaven forbid they ever bring out a new improved version and stop making your model, then you will of lost all the cost.

Kevin.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2007, 04:16:19 AM »
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Not outside of the US, where the rebate doesn't apply.  They clearly lose about $800 on teh 24" model if the same pricing structure applies, as it apparently already does in Germany.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114950\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Do not worry too much about European customers. We are used to this kind of price differences. If the market would be equal all over the world we would pay 72% of the $ price for items over here (without VAT). It usually is 120% though. Hasn't changed when the $ went belly up either.

In the 8 years that I bought Epson printers that difference has always existed, the US rebates never were available here, the extra media neither, no refurbished printers available from Epson here. When class actions forced Epson to replace media and printers in the US their goodwill wasn't extended to Europe. For example the orange plague, the dye ink that was in the 1290 up to the 10000 dye model that was tested but suffered from gas fading after all. Nothing compensated and even the ad texts were not changed like in the US.

The best deals you could get was with distributors and they usually were not lower than the lowest prices box shifters offered. And they always were higher than what you pay over there.

With that in mind it gets a bit difficult to empathize with your sentiments. The usual US citizin's comment on our price whinings were that we should blame the EC. The next day they think we have better customer protection. Both are incorrect.

It's called marketing and nothing else.


Ernst Dinkla

www.pigment-print.com
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Charles Gast
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« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2007, 08:13:26 AM »
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The PS is not mentioned in the link Marty.
It mentions the 3100, and 2100 models in both 24 inch and 40 inch but I see no mention of  a PS  version anywhere on the page. If on the other hand people are being told that the PS version is covered by the rebate then I hope they're mistaken.  If HP are at this point in the product cycle giving APS away free then I got screwed. Period.
I'll email them not to ask about the rebate on the PS version. I'll email them to ask when to expect my free APS package to arrive. I'll offer to pay the shipping. It will be a waste of time since before I was aware of the APS scam I emailed them to ask them if I could profile with targets other than the one provided and they never bothered to reply. I called them and they said they would call back to let me know and they never did.
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marty m
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« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2007, 01:10:27 PM »
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Revision on May 9:

I apologized too early.  The entire premise of this thread had been supported and vindicated.[/color]  See the separate thread "Z3100 Rebate PS Version INCLUDED!!!!"

It is now indisputably clear that all we had to do was wait 60 days.  Everyone who bought the Z3100 without APS, or who bought the APS separately, lost about $800.  If you had waited only 60 days, you would have saved $800.

Whether HP was dishonest is open to interpretation.  As one of the above posters put it, who questioned my use of dishonest, it "sounds more like they honestly ripped you off" and created "a sense of unfairness."  To say the least.  Unfairness and ripping us off to the tune of $800.00

Read my above comments.  I was pretty close to the mark, given this development.

I edited the below, just to shorten it.  My confession was premature:

****************************

If confession is good for the soul, consider this to be my confessional.  Also, regardless of how strongly I might argue my points, I haven't got any respect for those who argue just for the sake of argument, even when it is clear that they are wrong.

So, with that, let me say that the evidence would appear to indicate that I was wrong in the entire premise of this thread, at least with regards to the United States.  They both apparently talked to a supervisor, or that's the way it sounded.  She said that the PS models would not qualify.

(Again, the new thread indicates that the PS models DO QUALIFY)

Anyone who hasn't bought a Z3100 yet should take another run at this, and see if you get a different answer.  You have nothing to lose, and maybe $1000 to gain -- meaning a $1000 rebate on the PS model.  TThere is still a possibility that some of you outside of the U.S. bought the plain jane Z3100 without APS or RIP, and the price may have dropped on the PS model.  That means that if you had waited 60 days, you could buy the Z3100 with APS and RIP for roughly the same price that you already paid for the 3100 without the APS and RIP.  If that is true, I can only say, what a difference 60 days makes.  As a U.S. resident, I don't have any information as to whether that is the case, other than referring to one posting from Germany above.)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 10:30:42 PM by marty m » Logged
Roscolo
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« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2007, 02:14:08 PM »
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Thanks for following up with HP. Your thread is not pointless and meaningless if you save someone the shock of finding out that the z3100ps is currently not eligible for the rebate until after they have already purchased it and are trying to get the rebate, and I'm sure you have done that. I'm sure some retailers are just going to say it is eligible just to make a sale or because they honestly believe it is eligible. Maybe they read your thread also and learn something as well and don't pass on inaccurate info. regarding the rebate.

As I said, it happens to all of us, especially when $500 or $1000 is at stake!  
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 02:14:45 PM by Roscolo » Logged
Avalan
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« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2007, 08:00:17 PM »
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The result of the findings in Canada :

This morning I spend about 25 minutes to find some info from HP Canada. It was nothing but waste of time  : Automated messaging / then talked to someone/ then 3 times got transferred to some wrong department , and at the last transfer got This automated message : This number is not in service !!    Then I gave up.

If there was a direct number to pre-purchase info department , Hp could save me and their employees 25 minutes of wasted time.  For Z series The website still says : COMING SOON !! and Z series has been getting sold since last month !!

Then I called the reseller and asked about the APS or any possible deals from HP Canada.
And the answer was quick . These are the last info at the moment  (of course subject to change by HP anytime) :

Z3100 -24" base model (Q5669A) : Suggested retail price : $5400 CAND +taxes
Z3100 -24" base model (Q5669A)  : Promotion price : $4585Can+taxes  =  total $5181CAND = About $4560USD
APS  = $900CAND + taxes - Sold separately
Z3100-24 base model+ APS (Q5670A) : not available yet - not clear when might be available.
$1000 rebate + 300free paper  is for US ONLY .
(End of the info . received from the reseller)

Well , so far I have paid about $4560 US for base model . No APS or any other rebate. This is what you will get in Canada at the moment.

But the good news is the reseller is a certified service provider for HP and a very nice person. I have had the same luck with Canon reseller.
If there is anything valuable in this report ,  would be this :

WHATEVER PRINTER OR CONSUMABLE YOU BUY , BUY IT FROM A REPUTABLE RESELLER .

Regards -Avalan
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u1022186
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« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2007, 03:52:44 PM »
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I contacted both HP and the marketing company running the rebate and both informed me that the rebate does NOT apply to the ps models. So it would seem that iif you want the APS you would be better off buying the standard model and using the $1000.00 rebate to purchase it.

Bob Simon
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Christopher
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« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2007, 04:54:07 PM »
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I contacted both HP and the marketing company running the rebate and both informed me that the rebate does NOT apply to the ps models. So it would seem that iif you want the APS you would be better off buying the standard model and using the $1000.00 rebate to purchase it.

Bob Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115234\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You should add, that not everyone out there has a old printer for the rebate...
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Thomas Krüger
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« Reply #70 on: May 04, 2007, 04:05:11 AM »
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Here is a funny answer about the price differences in the german HP Shop, where the Z3100 GP 24" with APS (5568 €) is cheaper as the Z3100 24" without APS (5652,50 €):

http://tinylink.com/?RoxoVg3w3W

Answer from the german HP support:
"This is an error in the system, the update will be done probably in the next week."

Hmm.  
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barry685
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« Reply #71 on: May 04, 2007, 06:19:06 PM »
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This rebate business with the hp z3100 Q5670A is weird. I just did a live chat on HP's site and was told  that it was included in the rebate.

I then called Market Velocity & was told they actually did not know, & that they are waiting for an answer from HP and will probably know on Monday.

With the APS is a monitor colorimeter included? Which one?
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marty m
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« Reply #72 on: May 05, 2007, 03:01:34 AM »
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This rebate business with the hp z3100 Q5670A is weird. I just did a live chat on HP's site and was told  that it was included in the rebate.

I then called Market Velocity & was told they actually did not know, & that they are waiting for an answer from HP and will probably know on Monday.

With the APS is a monitor colorimeter included? Which one?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115747\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It appears to be the standard lowest cost Gretag colorimeter that you can buy separately although this one has a dongle built in for copy protection of the software.

I'm not surprised by the inconsistent answers on the rebate.  Even when I threw in the towel and conceded the argument (see my last posting), I recommended that those of you interested in buying a new Z3100 should still pursue the rebate and see if you can get one with the PS model.  I received two different answers in two phone calls one hour apart (see my last posting), and as noted, someone else in the forum was told by HP customer service the rebate *does* apply to the PS model.  And the web site does not provide a definitive and clear answer on the rebate for the PS, resulting in page after page of debates on that point in this thread.  I just gave up and accepted the second of the two answers that I received, namely that the rebate doesn't apply to the PS model.

It is in your economic interest to pursue the question of the rebate, since it would mean getting the PS *with* APS and RIP for the previous price of the 3100 without APS or RIP, and getting $1000 off on top of that.  But if you get a response that the rebate does apply to the PS -- get that in writing in an email -- and then attach that email with the forms when you submit the rebate.  Do not just accept the verbal answer of an HP employee or a response off of HP live chat.  Since their answers are changing from day to day, and employee to employee, a verbal answer that the rebate applies to the PS model can easily be later rejected when they process your rebate form.  Without a written response, the only safe assumption is that the rebate doesn't apply to the PS model.

If you ever receive a response -- in an email in writing --  that the rebate does apply to the PS model, please inform everyone else on this forum, as I'm sure that others would like to know.  Because at this point all that we have are inconsistent reports of verbal conversations that change from one day to the next, and they aren't worth anything in terms of applying for the $1000 rebate.  

And as my last posting explained, the situation outside of the U.S. is not clear, at least not to me, as to whether those who bought the 3100 without APS and RIP could have bought the 3100 *with* APS and RIP for about the *same* price by simply waiting 60 more days.  I only have info on U.S. prices.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 12:59:01 PM by marty m » Logged
stevenh
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« Reply #73 on: May 08, 2007, 12:33:04 PM »
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i just got off the phone to the promotion center.  they were very nice. not much of a wait. 12:30 pm central time tues may 08.

very helpful. i only asked if a particular epson 13" printer was fine for trade in.
she said the rebate is based on the z model.

AND without my prompting, she actually made sure that i understood that it does NOT apply to the ps version.
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barry685
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« Reply #74 on: May 08, 2007, 07:03:57 PM »
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I emailed Market Velocity about a week ago asking them If the PS version was good for the rebate. The response I got was that they were looking into it & would reply when they had an answer.

Today I emailed them again asking if they had an answer this is the response that I got:



Thank you for emailing us. Unfortunately, the case is still being reviewed by the program management team. We will get back to you as soon as we can.

We appreciate your patience.

Thank you for your interest in the HP Extreme Upgrade Promotion.

Sincerely,

HP Trade-In Program Customer Service



Bottom line is they actually don't know & they are waiting to hear from HP. I will wait and see what happens.
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marty m
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« Reply #75 on: May 09, 2007, 10:27:41 PM »
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Repeating my revision from above:

I apologized too early. The entire premise of this thread had been supported and vindicated. See the separate thread "Z3100 Rebate PS Version INCLUDED!!!!"

It is now indisputably clear that all we had to do was wait 60 days. Everyone who bought the Z3100 without APS, or who bought the APS separately, lost about $800. If you had waited only 60 days, you would have saved about $800.

Whether HP was dishonest is open to interpretation. As one of the above posters put it, who questioned my use of dishonest, it "sounds more like they honestly ripped you off" and created "a sense of unfairness."

To say the least.

Unfairness and ripping us off to the tune of $800.00

Read my above comments. I was pretty close to the mark, given this development.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 10:29:46 PM by marty m » Logged
mikeseb
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« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2007, 10:33:00 PM »
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The horse is not only dead, it's beginning to get ripe. Even valuing his time at minimum wage, methinks Marty has already spent the rebate he didn't get.
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michael sebastian
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marty m
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« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2007, 10:39:14 PM »
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The horse is not only dead, it's beginning to get ripe. Even valuing his time at minimum wage, methinks Marty has already spent the rebate he didn't get.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116701\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, my critics staked almost their entire case on one argument and one argument only:  that the rebate doesn't apply to the PS models.

Well, it turns out that it does.

Given that development, I am waiting to see if my former critics are now prepared to do what I did -- admit that their argument has been proven to be false.  I did just that when I was told that the rebate didn't apply.  I actually apologized to all of you for wasting your time.  Turns out I was pretty close to the mark.

What do my critics say now, since we now know that the rebate does apply?

They have been hung on their own petard, and defeated by their own argument.

Find me another company that lowers prices by an astonishing $800 in only 60 days.  Why should anyone buy HP products in the first 60 days if you lose $800 for doing so?

The lesson for all of us is this:

DO NOT BUY HP PRODUCTS FOR THE FIRST THREE OR FOUR MONTHS, AND WAIT FOR THE PRICES TO DROP.

And it is precisely because that is the only possible conclusion that companies never do what HP has done to us.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 10:50:17 PM by marty m » Logged
Roscolo
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« Reply #78 on: May 09, 2007, 10:41:25 PM »
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Well, my critics staked almost their entire case on one argument and one argument only:  that the rebate doesn't apply to the PS models.

Well, it turns out that it does.

Given that development, I am waiting to see if my former critics are now prepared to do what I did -- admit that their argument has been proven to be false.  I did it when I was told that the rebate didn't apply.  Will they, now that we now that it does?

Find me another company that lowers prices by an astonishing $800 in only 60 days.  Why should anyone buy HP products in the first 60 days if you lose $800 for doing so?

The lesson for all of us is to NOT BUY HP PRODUCTS FOR THE FIRST THREE OR FOUR MONTHS, AND WAIT FOR THE PRICES TO DROP.

And it is precisely because that is the only possible conclusion that companies never do what HP has done to us.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116704\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Marty, check my post on the "new" z3100 price thread. The ps models appear to be available through HP for $1000 (24") and $1200 (44") more than the non-ps models. Elsewhere there are lower prices, but all the ones I found say backordered or ask you to call for the price.
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marty m
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« Reply #79 on: May 09, 2007, 10:47:14 PM »
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Marty, check my post on the "new" z3100 price thread. The ps models appear to be available through HP for $1000 (24") and $1200 (44") more than the non-ps models. Elsewhere there are lower prices, but all the ones I found say backordered or ask you to call for the price.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116707\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Check out the response from Jim Cole in the "New HP APS thread."  You should follow his example.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 08:05:21 PM by marty m » Logged
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