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Author Topic: Profiling Dell Projector  (Read 18525 times)
alangubbay
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« on: May 10, 2007, 10:19:32 AM »
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We have been trying to profile our camera club Dell projector using the latest version of Colourvision Spyder Pro 2.  We are using a PC laptop and go through the process as advised (after setting the projector to the factory defaults0 without trouble and the new profile appears listed on the computer as expected.  However we cannot get the projector to change from the factory default setting whatever profile is set.  Has anyone any suggestions as to what is going wrong?
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2007, 12:20:28 PM »
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Invalid user expectations (failure to RTFM), most likely.

A profile has nothing to do with changing the settings of the projector, default or otherwise. A profile is simply a mathematical description of the color behavior of a device. When you profile something, the profile is only valid as long as the device's color behavior strays the same. So if you alter device settings, you have invalidated the profile and need to make a new one. All a profile does is let a color-aware app like Photoshop know what RGB value to send to a particular monitor to make it display a given color. Setting or selecting a profile will not alter any of the projector settings.

If you are using a color-ignorant app like PowerPoint, the profile will not be used, because the app simply sends RGB color values to the projector without regard to what actual color those RGB values represent. If you want to actually use your profile, you'll have to find either a color-aware alternative to Powerpoint, or else a Powerpoint add-on that adds color management functionality to the program.

Try configuring your laptop for dual-monitor use by setting the desktop to extend across both monitor and projector, as opposed to projector simply mirroring the laptop screen. A color-managed app will match colors between them within the gamut limits of both displays, and a non-color-managed app witt generally show a much greater color difference.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2007, 02:13:42 PM »
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Has anyone any suggestions as to what is going wrong?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116785\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I suspect its the Spyder. I can't recall profiling the specific projector you refer to but I've done a lot using the EyeOne Pro Beamer and have never had an issue (the profile always produces superior results comapred to doing nothing). And I don't mess with the projector controls, I simply profile its behavior.
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Andrew Rodney
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alangubbay
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2007, 10:04:46 AM »
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I suspect its the Spyder. I can't recall profiling the specific projector you refer to but I've done a lot using the EyeOne Pro Beamer and have never had an issue (the profile always produces superior results comapred to doing nothing). And I don't mess with the projector controls, I simply profile its behavior.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116827\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you Digital Dog and Jonathan.  I think that the problem must be the Spyder.  Otherwise we are doing everything in the same way as when profiling the monitor, the only difference being the USB extension cable necessary to reach the Spyder near the screen.                  Alan
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alangubbay
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2007, 03:15:06 AM »
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Thank you Digital Dog and Jonathan.  I think that the problem must be the Spyder.  Otherwise we are doing everything in the same way as when profiling the monitor, the only difference being the USB extension cable necessary to reach the Spyder near the screen.                  Alan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116966\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It now seems that the profile is probably correctly installed in the PC but when accessed there is no change in the monitor or projector.  In fact no profile when accessed changes the monitor from its original factory setting.  Does this mean we now have to re-install the OS ?  Any ideas ?
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ternst
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2007, 05:57:55 AM »
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This brings up a good question - can you actually profile a projector with a normal spyder/puck, or do you have to use the EyeOne Beamer? I guess I never thought about it since I use the EyeOne Beamer and get great results every time - is the Beamer nothing more than just the stand it is attached to? Could you simply use a spyder or other puck the same way? Or is there special EyeOne software that must be used? I've never seen any other hardware/software package other than Eye One Beamer that claims to profile projectors. Anyone know for sure about this (not just speculation)? Thanks...

Tim Ernst in Arkansas
www.Cloudland.net
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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2007, 09:42:27 AM »
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It now seems that the profile is probably correctly installed in the PC but when accessed there is no change in the monitor or projector.  In fact no profile when accessed changes the monitor from its original factory setting.  Does this mean we now have to re-install the OS ?  Any ideas ?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117230\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

At least on the Mac, you have to be sure the profile is loaded FOR the projector which is usually automatic anyway. If you're mirroring the displays, all the video has to go through a single profile. So that's either the computer or the projector. On the Mac, when the projector profile is loaded, it looks great but the laptop display may suffer. Not sure about Windows.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2007, 09:45:08 AM »
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This brings up a good question - can you actually profile a projector with a normal spyder/puck, or do you have to use the EyeOne Beamer? I guess I never thought about it since I use the EyeOne Beamer and get great results every time - is the Beamer nothing more than just the stand it is attached to? Could you simply use a spyder or other puck the same way? Or is there special EyeOne software that must be used? I've never seen any other hardware/software package other than Eye One Beamer that claims to profile projectors. Anyone know for sure about this (not just speculation)? Thanks...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117250\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The base is just that, a base. It only holds the Spectrophotometer and has a dark slide. Assuming you have the license for using the projector module (inside the EyeOne unit), you could do this handheld (not easy nor recommended but doable).

What's doing the real work here is that expensive Spectrophotometer, the EyeOne Pro. Its a far more capable device for measuring color compared to the Spyder which I suspect is the key to it's repeated successes.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2007, 10:04:54 AM »
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Interesting. So I wonder if you can simply treat the projected image as a monitor and profile it with any device, spyder, puck, or the EyeOne spectro - just run the monitor program and point the device at the screen? I'm sure the expensive spectro is much more of a machine than even EyeOne's own puck, but don't most projectors output sRGB and at lower resolution than most monitors, so these cheaper devices would be plenty good enough? (Good enough for high-end monitors, good enough for XGA projectors?) I've got the beamer and the full software so I've never need to try this approach, but if it will work, my goodness there would be a whole lot more accurate slide programs going on for no additional cost! (I'm sure EyeOne would agree this to be impossible for marketing reasons - it would be great to hear from someone who either has tried it with success or failure, or has a reason why it would not work.)

Tim Ernst in Arkansas
www.Cloudland.net
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digitaldog
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2007, 10:10:12 AM »
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Interesting. So I wonder if you can simply treat the projected image as a monitor and profile it with any device, spyder, puck, or the EyeOne spectro - just run the monitor program and point the device at the screen?

No, you can't. And there probably lies the issue with the Spyder. Ending up with a profile isn't the tricky part, ending up with a good one is.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2007, 10:19:06 AM »
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Andrew:

Do you know why this would not work? Is it a software or hardware issue? All the EyeOne is doing is pointing at the projected image just like you would do with any profiling device - so I guess it is just the software that for some reason must be tuned for a projector screen surface, or ? I'm happy with my Beamer, I was just wondering.....seems like it ought to work...
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digitaldog
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2007, 11:29:49 AM »
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Andrew:

Do you know why this would not work? Is it a software or hardware issue? [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117280\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Probably both.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2007, 11:41:03 AM »
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Andrew:

I guess I'm still trying to get an answer as to why this would not work - have you ever done this, or know of anyone who has, or can give us any reason why it would not work? I realize you are one of the top color gurus on the planet and you are the best, but I'm still curious if there is a real known reason why this would not work, or are you just guessing?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2007, 11:46:33 AM »
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Done it hundreds of times with a Beamer, never with a Spyder (although I have one).
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2007, 11:52:16 AM »
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Yup, me too, before every presentation I give. Just wondering about doing it with some other sort of device, like for instance an EyeOne puck instead of their expensive one. I know of few people who would ever spring $1500 just to profile their projector like I did, but many of them do have an EyeOne puck and the standard Match 3 software for monitors, and if they could make a good projector profile with it that would be great for them. I assume an EyeOne puck would be good enough ey? Just need someone who knows what they are doing to give it a try and do all of the leg work. I can do it but I am not good enough to be able to tell if I got a good profile or not (I just assume I'm getting a great one with the beamer). Interesting discussion and I hope someone can come up with a definative answer...
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alangubbay
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2007, 03:22:17 AM »
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Our problem is not that we cannot make a profile with the Spyder.  The updated software specifically allows this.  The difficulty at present is that neither the laptop PC monitor nor the projector will show any colour change whatever, whichever profile is "enabled".  The computer seems to be outputing its default setting whatever we do, even if we select one of the pre-installed 50 profiles.
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