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Author Topic: Architecture shoots, what do you use ?  (Read 15144 times)
stefan marquardt
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2007, 01:31:15 AM »
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Quote from: uaiomex,May 16 2007, 07:54 PM
Stefan,
I was told the Zoerk's main something, couldn't move freely around because the 5D grip was on its way of rotation.  >>>>


it doesn´t go around a full circle, but that is not a problem. you still get the lens into any position you want. I used the canon-mamiya psa plus a canon-pentax shiftadapter for 2 years on many architecture and interior assignments with the 1ds and the 5D and never has this been as a problem. I whish he would still make the bigger mamiya645 to pentax67 shift-adapters, but he says there is not enough demand. I would by one without hesitation in a second, for my mamiya zd.

stefan
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stefan marquardt
stefanmarquardt.de
architecture & interior photography
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David WM
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« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2007, 09:52:51 AM »
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Chris, what do you mean by the learning curve, is the Cambo system complex, or are you referring to a film to digital change?

David

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I have had several interior and exterior photographers that have chosen the Cambo Wide DS system with a Phase One DB.  There is a bit of a learning curve to learn the new workflow, but seem to be happy with the system.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117957\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Steve_Townsend
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« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2007, 10:19:42 AM »
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I am using the Cambo WDS with a P45.  I think the steepest part of the learning curve is C1 which I am new to.  I don't think using the Cambo is complex at all.

Using the 24mm schneider lens with the lens cast is an issue when trying to remove all the effects.  It is not possible to use one LCC file for this lens even though there is no shift.  The slightest change of shift and the slack evident in the lens mounting gives major change in the LCC file.  Had the Horsemann SWD11 which is not good.  Maybe should have gone for the Alpa?  But I do like the horizontal shift capability of the Cambo and I am getting some lovely images out the kit.

Steve Townsend
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uaiomex
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« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2007, 07:15:29 PM »
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Thanks Stefan:

You are making think again about buying the PSA.

My rig would be a 5D and 3 CF Hasselblad lenses. 50, 80, 150.
Let me ask you a few things. I've been to all pages I googled including all those at Zoerk's site and couldn't find answers to many questions. This guys should have short videos showing the different parts and how to operate these things. So easy to do it since Youtube!

Hope you (or somebody else, please) can answer them:

I understand the PSA can shift up to 20mm either way. I am not interested in doing 1:3 ratio panoramas. I am only interested in doing shifts on the short 24mm axis to produce ultra resolution images.

1. Is this possible with the 5D in both orientations? I mean: vertical position (to produce a stitched horizontal image) and horizontal position (to produce a stitched vertical image) ?

2. If yes, how do you acomplish shifting all 20mm on the 24mm axis? Do you need to take first a picture in no-shift position and then shift 20mm, shoot, then rotate 180 degrees and shoot a third image? If yes, does it take long? Awkward? Difficult? - I'm used to 4X5 field cameras. Well, rusty now.

3. I want to always shift the camera not the lens. Is it absolutely necessary to have the tripod adapter for the PSA? - About the L bracket. What is the function of this with the PSA?

4- Articles talk about the RSS L bracket. I own already a very nice L bracket from Manfroto. Need to buy the RSS?

Maybe too many questions. Hope it is not a burden.
Thank you for doing Zoerk's job. (sarcasm)

Best
Eduardo



Quote from: stefan marquardt,May 17 2007, 01:31 AM
Quote from: uaiomex,May 16 2007, 07:54 PM
Stefan,
I was told the Zoerk's main something, couldn't move freely around because the 5D grip was on its way of rotation.  >>>>
it doesn´t go around a full circle, but that is not a problem. you still get the lens into any position you want. I used the canon-mamiya psa plus a canon-pentax shiftadapter for 2 years on many architecture and interior assignments with the 1ds and the 5D and never has this been as a problem. I whish he would still make the bigger mamiya645 to pentax67 shift-adapters, but he says there is not enough demand. I would by one without hesitation in a second, for my mamiya zd.

stefan
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savagegibson
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« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2007, 08:38:36 PM »
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I am using the Cambo WDS with a P45.  I think the steepest part of the learning curve is C1 which I Had the Horsemann SWD11 which is not good.  Maybe should have gone for the Alpa?  But I do like the horizontal shift capability of the Cambo and I am getting some lovely images out the kit.

Steve Townsend
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118198\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What did you find lacking in the SWDII? On paper it seems like an ideal camera for architecture and I've considered it for my next setup. Right now I'm using a Fuji GX680III. It has been my film to digital transition camera, but now I'm more interested in a purely digital camera.
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clawery
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« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2007, 08:40:21 PM »
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David,

That is what I meant.  Going from 100% film on a 4x5 to a 39MP DB on a Cambo Wide DS, you will need little time to learn a new workflow.  I've seen great results from clients that have made the switch.

Thank you,
Chris

Chris Lawery
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rueyloon
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« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2007, 09:37:21 PM »
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I have a WDS here with me, but it will still cost me a couple of thousands more to get the lens and the digital back adapter.

anyone using them ? I find getting focus through gestimating quite useless, I can't get critical focus. When I shoot tethred I can tell that 1 mm diff does make quite abit of difference, even for distance objects.

cheers
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ericstaud
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« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2007, 10:38:33 PM »
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What did you find lacking in the SWDII? On paper it seems like an ideal camera for architecture and I've considered it for my next setup. Right now I'm using a Fuji GX680III. It has been my film to digital transition camera, but now I'm more interested in a purely digital camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118294\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Doesn't the SWDII only have 17mm of shift?

I am using the Alpa XY, P45, with the 24, 35, 47, 60, and 100mm digitars.  It is a great system.  Nearly all the lenses and accessories are readily available.  The whole system must be priced to compare the Alpa versus Cambo options.  If you find that the Alpa is $26K and the Cambo is $24k then, in the long run, I would choose the system with the wider range of lenses, accessories and camera bodies which also has the best craftmanship.  The C1 software has a great combination of stability, speed, and workflow.

Working with Nikon and Canon systems meant barrel distortion, chromatic abberation, low resolution, limited bit depth, increased highlight blooming, poor highlight transitions, and the need for perspective correction in Photoshop (robbing even more resolution from the already small file).

Working with a Cambo/Alpa/Phase/Leaf/Sinar system takes less time in post and produces much higher quality results.

For a working photographer the system is also very reasonably priced when compared to 4x5 film, processing, and polaroids.

Of course, the resolution is not realized for magazine publishing.  But when I shoot the one job in 10 (or 100) for which it matters, the quality is there.  I don't fear the architect ordering 30"x40" prints to hang next to prints from 4x5 images.  The MkII and D2x files just can't keep up.
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Kirk Gittings
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« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2007, 11:21:33 PM »
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Eric,

Just curious, your website is very professional with many wonderful images. You have a great eye. A couple of the images in the residential portfolio show a fair amount of barrel distortion. What were those shot with?
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Thanks,
Kirk

Kirk Gittings
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ericstaud
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« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2007, 12:04:51 AM »
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Eric,

Just curious, your website is very professional with many wonderful images. You have a great eye. A couple of the images in the residential portfolio show a fair amount of barrel distortion. What were those shot with?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I'm not exactly sure which images you mean Kirk.  The last image was shot with a Nikon 17-35 and I'm sure has barrel distortion (it never really jumped out at me though).  All the rest are Schneider lenses on 4x5 film.  I don't see the barrel distortion in any of them.

My web site is mostly 4x5 film with some 35mm digital mixed in, so here is a gallery of just Alpa images shot with the Aptus 75:

[a href=\"http://www.ericstaudenmaier.com/alpa_sample]http://www.ericstaudenmaier.com/alpa_sample[/url]
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 03:40:41 AM by ericstaud » Logged
Steve_Townsend
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« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2007, 02:09:34 AM »
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What did you find lacking in the SWDII? On paper it seems like an ideal camera for architecture and I've considered it for my next setup. Right now I'm using a Fuji GX680III. It has been my film to digital transition camera, but now I'm more interested in a purely digital camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118294\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree on paper it seemed the same to me, but in reality I think it needs gearing.  More importantly though to change lenses you need undo four tiny screws and then redo the same.  Also the same tiny screw heads are provided to lock the shift which you had to screw quite tight to stop it slipping.  Not particularly pleasant to use in my two weeks of use before I sent it back.  The Cambo is bigger which is not so good and with the completely ridulous handle even more so!!

Steve Townsend
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Eric Zepeda
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« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2007, 02:39:12 AM »
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Using the 24mm schneider lens with the lens cast is an issue when trying to remove all the effects.  It is not possible to use one LCC file for this lens even though there is no shift.  The slightest change of shift and the slack evident in the lens mounting gives major change in the LCC file. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118198\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree. I always make a Lcc for each shot I do with the Cambo WDS, finding that even a minuscule change to the camera affects the Lcc.
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stefan marquardt
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« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2007, 05:28:15 AM »
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hi eduardo, the answers to your questions:
<<
1. Is this possible with the 5D in both orientations? I mean: vertical position (to produce a stitched horizontal image) and horizontal position (to produce a stitched vertical image) >>

yes,  an elbow braket (can be selfbuilt for 10 euros, or bought from herr zörkendorfer or from manfrotto) is needed. you frame the pic, take one frame on the left shifted position, than one frame in the unshifted position and the last frame in the right shifted position. sames goes for up and down/vertical stitching. its very easy and takes a few seconds - perhaps as long as exposing two sheets of 4x5 film, or so.

<<<2. If yes, how do you acomplish shifting all 20mm on the 24mm axis? Do you need to take first a picture in no-shift position and then shift 20mm, shoot, then rotate 180 degrees and shoot a third image? If yes, does it take long? Awkward? Difficult? - I'm used to 4X5 field cameras. Well, rusty now.I want to always shift the camera not the lens. Is it absolutely necessary to have the tripod adapter for the PSA? - About the L bracket. What is the function of this with the PSA?>>>

yes - you need the psa with the tripod adapter (i think it´s 50 euro more or so). and the L-braket. you need the L-braket to turn the whoole psa into a horizontal position to do take a horizontal three-frames-stich.


<<<4- Articles talk about the RSS L bracket. I own already a very nice L bracket from Manfroto. Need to buy the RSS?>>>

no, i use my manfrotto L-braket to. I did chop a tiny bit of where it interferred with the psa.

the whole thing is rather easy to use, even if it sounds a bit complicated. once you have it in front of yourself,  it´s easy to see what to do with it.

<<<Maybe too many questions. Hope it is not a burden.
Thank you for doing Zoerk's job. (sarcasm)>>

no problem - I think I have spend hours on the phone and via mail with fellow photographers to explain the psa to them. now, if only he would build me a mamiya-pentax psa for that, I would be happy.

stefan
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stefan marquardt
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Steve_Townsend
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« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2007, 05:44:16 AM »
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I am using the Alpa XY, P45, with the 24, 35, 47, 60, and 100mm digitars.  It is a great system.  Nearly all the lenses and accessories are readily available.  The whole system must be priced to compare the Alpa versus Cambo options.  If you find that the Alpa is $26K and the Cambo is $24k then, in the long run, I would choose the system with the wider range of lenses, accessories and camera bodies which also has the best craftmanship.  The C1 software has a great combination of stability, speed, and workflow.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118307\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Eric

Mmmm, I might wish I had gone for the Alpa System rather than the Cambo.

Couple of questions for you if you would be so kind.
1. Do you still use the 12SWA?
2. Are the Alpa XY lens compatible (without re-mounting) with the 12SWA and/or the TC?
3. Do you use the P45 with a H1/2 or somethingelse?

Regards Steve Townsend
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Dustbak
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« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2007, 07:27:52 AM »
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I use a couple of different things. I use the truewide as well (as does Rueyloon) but have recenty bought a Flexbody as well. I already had several CF lenses for my 503CW so I just had to get the body and I found one for a very reasonable price.

With the cropped 43x31 sensor you can have all the shift (over 20mm) the flexbody can deliver and the full 30degrees of tilt without getting to the edges of the image circle.

Yesterday, I had to do a building (very boring one but these need to be photographed as well ) and without a lot of effort I was able to stitch a 80MP wide angle file with virtually no distortion. I rotated on a panorama plate and used the shift of the back to do 2 rows.

I have been working with the thing for the last couple of weeks and find it a nice piece of equipment to work with. I have not yet ran into the limitations of movements of the thing but have promised myself to have the thing redone into a bendyblad as soon as I do.

What I really like about the flexbody is the size and weight. Only about 800 grammes!

It would be nice when Live Video would become real life video, as in on the display that would mean I can get rid of the ground glass and RMFx finder. Because I work really slow to begin with when using stuff like this I don't mind taking the ground glass of and replacing it with the back but it would be nice.

I think the Alpa & Cambo are also very nice, especially the glass for the Alpa but I just don't have the economical justification to go for that (read, I am a poor schmuck trying to make money and do not belong to the bunch that can afford to invest in stuff like that, YET )
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clawery
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« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2007, 08:59:13 AM »
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I would agree with Eric.  Do an LCC for each shot on your Cambo Wide DS.  I know of one photographer that actually made LCCs for each of his lenses and with several shifts.  He labeled
each of them and applies them through C1.  It's a fail safe way to make sure he has a LCC
for his shots.

Chris Lawery
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Kirk Gittings
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« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2007, 09:08:54 AM »
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I'm not exactly sure which images you mean Kirk.  The last image was shot with a Nikon 17-35 and I'm sure has barrel distortion (it never really jumped out at me though).  All the rest are Schneider lenses on 4x5 film.  I don't see the barrel distortion in any of them.


Eric,

I am not saying the BD is huge. "Laundry" and the untitled library/study image show about the amount of barrel distortion that I encounter on my Canon 24TS. I guess maybe I am very sensitive to BD after shooting 4x5 exclusively for 29 years. Since last October I started shooting all editorial on FF Canon and find some very slight correction is almost always necessary.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 09:10:08 AM by Kirk Gittings » Logged

Thanks,
Kirk

Kirk Gittings
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ericstaud
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« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2007, 09:45:23 AM »
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Hi Eric

Mmmm, I might wish I had gone for the Alpa System rather than the Cambo.

Couple of questions for you if you would be so kind.
1. Do you still use the 12SWA?
2. Are the Alpa XY lens compatible (without re-mounting) with the 12SWA and/or the TC?
3. Do you use the P45 with a H1/2 or somethingelse?

Regards Steve Townsend
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118355\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



1. Do you still use the 12SWA?

Yes, I bought the 12SWA initially hoping that I would like the XY when it was released.  I have recently shot a landscape project which the SWA was ideal for.

2. Are the Alpa XY lens compatible (without re-mounting) with the 12SWA and/or the TC?

Yes, the lenses and P45 with adapter go seemlessly and very easily between all Alpa cameras.  I did adjust the shim in my Alpa/H1 adapter by 1/10th of a millimeter when it first arrived about a year ago.  I have used 3 Phase backs and 5 Leaf Aputs backs on the Alpa.  One of the backs required a 1/10mm adjustment further from the lens.  I should also be able to use that crazy 160 MP seitz scan back in the future as well.

3. Do you use the P45 with a H1/2 or somethingelse?

I have the H1 mount but do not own an H1.  It seemed at the time to be a viable platform that would mean a good resale value on the P45+.  I ordered the value added P45+ and have a free mount change until December.  I hope the ne new Rollei camera will become compatible with Phase before then, so I have the option to switch  I used the Aptus 22/75 from April last year until December.  I jumped ship last December preferring the software that Phase provides.
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ericstaud
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« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2007, 09:56:07 AM »
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Eric,

I am not saying the BD is huge. "Laundry" and the untitled library/study image show about the amount of barrel distortion that I encounter on my Canon 24TS. I guess maybe I am very sensitive to BD after shooting 4x5 exclusively for 29 years. Since last October I started shooting all editorial on FF Canon and find some very slight correction is almost always necessary.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118375\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Kirk,

I agree about the study image.  The Laundry image was definitely shot with the Schneider 90mm on 4x5 film though, so I think it's just an illusion.

I started shooting for money in 1993 and used the 4x5 from then until spring of last year.  It's getting pretty dusty now.  I miss the inexpensive lenses.
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alba63
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« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2007, 11:33:33 AM »
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The Laundry image was definitely shot with the Schneider 90mm on 4x5 film though, so I think it's just an illusion.

Eric, I looked at your architecture galleries, very good stuff you have there, (apart from the fact that the lower left of the laundry also looks curved here) may I ask with what camera you shot the "Museum of contemporary Art" in LA?
http://www.ericstaudenmaier.com/site/image...es/large_03.jpg

Judging by the degree of shift and the distance I'd say it was with a 4x5 film, right?

Thanks,

Bernhard
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