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Author Topic: Mamiya ZD 22MP Back $ 6995 announced in US  (Read 30940 times)
RSPhoto
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« on: May 31, 2007, 11:59:04 PM »
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I just read this on the main page:

Mamiya Digital has announced the Mamiya ZD 645AFD II Digital System. The System consists of the Mamiya 645AFD II Medium Format Camera with 80mm f/2.8 AF lens and the newly- introduced Mamiya ZD 22 Megapixel Digital Back.  The US retail price of the package is $9,999. The ZD back alone, compatible with the Mamiya 645AFD II, 645AFD and RZ67 Pro IID, will have a street price of $6,995. All ZD backs will come bundled with Adobe Lightroom.

Sounds interesting!
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mcfoto
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2007, 12:12:14 AM »
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Hi
That is a great price for a 22mp back. Nice to see LR added as well.

Denis

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Denis Montalbetti
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alba63
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2007, 08:07:13 AM »
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Hi, are there any reviews yet whether one can expect exactly the same quality from the back as from the ZD SLR? Seeing that they use the same sensor as the digiback manufacturers (it's a 36x48mm Dalsa, right?) one can conclude that they have to cut costs at certain points... What would those points be?

Thanks, bernie
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markhout
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2007, 08:56:38 AM »
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I'm impressed, and breathing in a bag as I write this. Would be interesting to see how the competition will respond (both the digital back manufacturers as well as Nikon, Canon).

I need help though on the marketing front. Mamiya are saying that "The Mamiya ZD digital back offers a 36mm x 48mm Dalsa CCD 22 mega pixel image capture sensor that is nearly 6x4.5cm."

NEARLY 6x4.5 cm? I'd think that there's quite a difference between a sensor size of 1728 mm2 (36x48) and 2700mm2 (60x45), i.e. a form factor of 0.64. The new 28mm on the ZD back would then be comparable with a 43mm lens in 6x4.5, which is only a moderate wideangle.

Please tell me I'm wrong...

Thanks!

Mark
« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 08:57:52 AM by markhout » Logged

paulhu
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2007, 09:21:17 AM »
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I am so glad that the ZD and ZD back are going to be available in the US.  I am glad that I held onto my Mamiya 645 AFD II for as long as I could, and I am still going to keep my Kodak digital back as a backup to the new ZD back.

I called Mamiya (MAC Group) this morning, and was told by a gentleman named Mark, that the ZD back should be on sale in US by end of June through all its distributors and resellers.
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bradleygibson
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2007, 09:23:34 AM »
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FYI, "645" as a size is actually 56mm x 41.5mm, even in the film days.

The Mamiya sensor (48mm x 36mm) represents approximately 1.1x focal length conversion factor, which is why Mamiya is saying "nearly".  A well-known manufacturer has recently been taken to task for referring to 49x37 as digital 645 "full frame", so I much prefer Mamiya's more honest "nearly 645"...

Best regards,
Brad

Quote
NEARLY 6x4.5 cm? I'd think that there's quite a difference between a sensor size of 1728 mm2 (36x48) and 2700mm2 (60x45), i.e. a form factor of 0.64. The new 28mm on the ZD back would then be comparable with a 43mm lens in 6x4.5, which is only a moderate wideangle.

Please tell me I'm wrong...

Thanks!

Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120612\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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yaya
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2007, 09:28:31 AM »
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NEARLY 6x4.5 cm? I'd think that there's quite a difference between a sensor size of 1728 mm2 (36x48) and 2700mm2 (60x45), i.e. a form factor of 0.64. The new 28mm on the ZD back would then be comparable with a 43mm lens in 6x4.5, which is only a moderate wideangle.

Please tell me I'm wrong...

Thanks!

Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120612\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

645 is actually 56mm X 41.5mm (it's for 120 fim) wich gives a ratio of ~1.16 with a 48X36 sensor.

So a 28mm becomes 32.5mm, I hope this makes more sense to you.

Yair
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markhout
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2007, 09:57:23 AM »
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645 is actually 56mm X 41.5mm (it's for 120 fim) wich gives a ratio of ~1.16 with a 48X36 sensor.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120620\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Great, thanks much.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2007, 11:24:16 AM »
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I noticed no posts at DpReview about Mamiya anouncement. The same at other sites. At LL only this thread. I was expecting a little roar about it. A "quasi 645" sensor dback for under $ 7K deserves more attention, an applause. I know Mamiya is not the best (IQ) there is, but with this price, it's going to sell remarkably. If I had a Mamiya, I'd be already putting my money in advance. With this kind of revenue they should start enjoying, they could improve IQ exponentially.

I think it is really good news, because it is going to push down other dback prices (I hope).

If Mamiya can sell a 37X49 sensor dback at this price, Hasselblad could be pushed to come out with a new CFV with bigger sensor without increasing its price.

It is great news for all MF lovers. The rumors about Canon coming soon with more MP's and possibly 16bit, could launch more desertion from the MF panorama. Mamiya could stop it.

Clap, clap, clap, clap.
Eduardo

 
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Great, thanks much.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120633\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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jreederphoto
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2007, 11:55:19 AM »
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anyone know if you will be able to mount this mamiya back to a view camera?

thanks

jordan
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nik
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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2007, 11:59:53 AM »
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I wish it were true and I hope I'm wrong, but, I don't think it's going to do ANYTHING to the prices for the competition as mamiya is trailing the field by a wide margin. The fact is that mamiya put in the order for these 22mp dalsa chips a LONG time ago, finally they are going to ship a product. Basically they HAVE to get rid of these chips and get some revenue back.

Although I used the ZD a lot (the camera, not the back), it's not really in the same league as a + back from any of the others manufacturers. Adding lightroom was a nice touch though!

-Nick


Quote
I think it is really good news, because it is going to push down other dback prices (I hope).

If Mamiya can sell a 37X49 sensor dback at this price, Hasselblad could be pushed to come out with a new CFV with bigger sensor without increasing its price.

It is great news for all MF lovers. The rumors about Canon coming soon with more MP's and possibly 16bit, could launch more desertion from the MF panorama. Mamiya could stop it.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=120659\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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markhout
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2007, 12:25:38 PM »
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I noticed no posts at DpReview about Mamiya anouncement. The same at other sites. At LL only this thread. I was expecting a little roar about it. A "quasi 645" sensor dback for under $ 7K deserves more attention, an applause. I know Mamiya is not the best (IQ) there is, but with this price, it's going to sell remarkably. If I had a Mamiya, I'd be already putting my money in advance. With this kind of revenue they should start enjoying, they could improve IQ exponentially.

Clap, clap, clap, clap.
Eduardo
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

All current info is here at the [a href=\"http://mamiya.com/cameras.asp?id=1&id2=2281]Mamiya site[/url]
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mcfoto
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2007, 01:17:26 PM »
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Hi
As I read more I think this is really good news. As I own a ZD myself , this Dalsa chip is excellent. This same chip is used in the Aptus 22 & Sinar Emotion 22. The Mamiya lenses are excellent. The new 28mm & 75-150mm will mean that the AFDII/ZD will have an extensive lens range. The addition of LR is bonus. Plus you can use Silky Pix & Raw Developer with ZD files. You are buying into an open platform as you can use Leaf,Sinar, Phase & Imacon D backs on the AFDII body. I have looked at the specs & they seem the same as my ZD. What I did notice is that the interface of the back is different to the first prototype.

Denis

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Denis Montalbetti
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2007, 01:26:22 PM »
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I did notice that the Mamiya ZD body is not listed on the USA site anymore

do we think the street pricing will be the same as listed in the PR for ZD back/system?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 01:41:06 PM by jimgolden » Logged
RicAgu
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« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2007, 01:44:12 PM »
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I just went to the Mamiya site and the ZD back will sell for $6,999 and work with the RZ Pro IID with out cables and of course pair with the full frame 28mm on the 645 AFD II.

It seems like Mamiya is on the way back. A 22mp digital back for $7k is insane. If the files are working and look good at 400 then they will be selling like hot cakes again.

I assume it has the same 22mp chip that the Leaf A22 at a third of cost.

Plus, outstanding service and support in the US.

Seems pretty impressive.

Does anyone know if they will come in different mounts or only Mamiya?

As people have said. Interesting times!
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jimgolden
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« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2007, 01:56:38 PM »
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maybe KG will make a plate. I bet they would if there is demand.

most said the ZD body wasnt usable above 200ISO, but maybe it's been
reworked?
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jmboss
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« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2007, 03:07:54 PM »
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Well, for Jordan, myself, and I'm sure many others,

The big haunting question is: Will the Mamiya ZD DMFB work on a view camera (or even better, a camera body such as the Cambo Wide DS) for more flexible architectural/landscape shooting and stitching ability?

My gut feeling is NO...but I hope someone will prove me wrong on this issue.

I base this on the fact that there has been nothing infowise on a shutter release feature that I can find mentioned in any literature on the current ZD model promoting this ability.

I do see history repeating itself here, since the original Kodak DSC Pro Back did not have this feature either, but fortunately it was upgraded one year later with the "Plus" model's "external shutter release port", which then allowed those DMFB's use with a view camera.

Curiously, when the final slimmer and lighter Kodak 645 DSC Pro Back models  were later introduced only for the Hasselblad H1, Contax, and Mamiya AF camera bodies, the "port" was missing again.  

I feel this new ZD Back is just a long overdue upgrade of the last Kodak 645 DMFB Mamiya version, and the ZD model finally fills the gaping hole Kodak left behind.

This is a well positioned price for a new model specific 14/12 bit DMFB in comparision with the rest of the industry's 16/14 bit offerings.

And this wonderful price point for the ZD back (Lower than I think all of us expected) also follows an historically similar price point pattern with the older 645 Kodak DMFB's as well. Those Backs too, as you may recall, were offered at much lower price points compared to the rest of the MFDB competition of that time period.

I agree with Nick that the price points of competing product lines will probably see little movement since Phase, Leaf, and Hasselblad offer much better feature sets compared to the ZD back in its present form.

But wow, those 22 megapixels, with that 36mm x 48mm image size, for those who own Mamiya AFD's, for only $6999, is still verrrry nice! And with the new 28mm lens, oh boy!!!

And the "external shutter release" feature? Well, we will just have to wait and see.

Indeed, as RicAgu remarked, we live in interesting times............

Joe Bossuyt
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Pantoned
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« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2007, 03:42:52 PM »
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Well, for Jordan, myself, and I'm sure many others,

The big haunting question is: Will the Mamiya ZD DMFB work on a view camera (or even better, a camera body such as the Cambo Wide DS) for more flexible architectural/landscape shooting and stitching ability?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not exactly View cameras but some third party manufacturers like ALPA cameras have already announced support for the ZD back (ALPA 12TC, ALPA 12WA, ALPA 12WA)

[a href=\"http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=news&detailpage=33]http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=news&detailpage=33[/url]

Cambo did also show support when the ZD camera was launched,
http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_photo/s...et/Item704.html
they should do the same with the back now, maybe I'm wrong.

Don't lose you hope.

Arnau Anglada
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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2007, 04:51:45 PM »
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I just went to the Mamiya site and the ZD back will sell for $6,999 and work with the RZ Pro IID with out cables and of course pair with the full frame 28mm on the 645 AFD II.

It seems like Mamiya is on the way back. A 22mp digital back for $7k is insane. If the files are working and look good at 400 then they will be selling like hot cakes again.

I assume it has the same 22mp chip that the Leaf A22 at a third of cost.

Plus, outstanding service and support in the US.

Seems pretty impressive.

Does anyone know if they will come in different mounts or only Mamiya?

As people have said. Interesting times!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

this is great news, but i am afraid this will put more pressure on canon then MF makers....the ZD back is 12bit, the buffer is a major problem when shooting people and 400 is very noisy....that said: it is always great to see prices come down and this is a great deal....there are several tests online and quite a few people here already shoot with the ZD....
just like the ZD this is a bit better then the 1dsmkII (at 100iso) but much slower and a bit below 16bit MF backs (which will provide cleaner transitions, better color and cleaner files).....
but the idea that with a 5D and a 645/ZD one can now get 2 kits covering pretty much everything under 20.000 is very tempting.....
i would still get the P21.....
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jmboss
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2007, 07:23:09 PM »
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Emailed a letter to Jeff Karp at MAC concerning the possible compatibility of the new ZD Back working with view camera type setups.

Awaiting a reply...probably on Tuesday.

Joe Bossuyt
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