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Author Topic: B/W Dig Print Doubts versus Analogue  (Read 6745 times)
JeffKohn
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« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2007, 09:32:41 AM »
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Paul, more and more digital is creeping in and more and more of it is of very high quality.  I subscribe to "Lenswork" and there is a growing number of digital submissions there.  Not only digital capture but digital prints as well.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
RE: Lenswork. Agreed on the digital capture part, although I'm skeptical that Lenswork is taking inkjet prints, scanning them in, and then printing them in the magazine. I would suspect they're using the original digital files.
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rdonson
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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2007, 10:01:02 AM »
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RE: Lenswork. Agreed on the digital capture part, although I'm skeptical that Lenswork is taking inkjet prints, scanning them in, and then printing them in the magazine. I would suspect they're using the original digital files.
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True but Brooks Jensen has remarked several times about the state of inkjet printing being able to produce fine art quality prints.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
SeanPuckett
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« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2007, 02:10:45 PM »
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IMO the DMAX and paperfeel is there (N-surface, at least) but the biggest problem now is loss of detail in the blacks.  I've been doing some custom ICC profiling and have resolved a lot of these issues in my own B&W work -- the difference is shocking.  I do hope to explain this in detail once I have perfected it and made it easily reproducible by others.

Check this image: Studying

Note the extremely dark texture near the model's hair at the bottom center of the print -- some LCD monitors can't display this texture correctly!  My prints now show this texture clearly but very close to black -- a true "zone 1" area.  Before the profiling, this texture was basically invisible on a print unless held under bright light.

Sorry for the tease, but I'm still fighting with profiles for various other reasons.  Once I get it all sorted out, I'll write it up.  Anyway, there are actual technical reasons for poor shadow detail, and there are actual technical solutions to solve them without an intermediate "photoshop" step.
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madmanchan
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« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2007, 02:21:43 PM »
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True but Brooks Jensen has remarked several times about the state of inkjet printing being able to produce fine art quality prints.
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Plus, Brooks is making inkjet prints himself:

[a href=\"http://www.brooksjensenarts.com/pigmentonpaper.htm]http://www.brooksjensenarts.com/pigmentonpaper.htm[/url]
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rdonson
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« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2007, 04:53:38 PM »
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IMO the DMAX and paperfeel is there (N-surface, at least) but the biggest problem now is loss of detail in the blacks.  I've been doing some custom ICC profiling and have resolved a lot of these issues in my own B&W work -- the difference is shocking.  I do hope to explain this in detail once I have perfected it and made it easily reproducible by others.

Check this image: Studying

Note the extremely dark texture near the model's hair at the bottom center of the print -- some LCD monitors can't display this texture correctly!  My prints now show this texture clearly but very close to black -- a true "zone 1" area.  Before the profiling, this texture was basically invisible on a print unless held under bright light.

Sorry for the tease, but I'm still fighting with profiles for various other reasons.  Once I get it all sorted out, I'll write it up.  Anyway, there are actual technical reasons for poor shadow detail, and there are actual technical solutions to solve them without an intermediate "photoshop" step.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121817\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm looking forward to your write up, Sean.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
eronald
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« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2007, 07:17:50 AM »
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I am a color consultant, and therefore know about printer settings and profiling.

I have used Epsons through 3 generations (1270, 2100, 2400). The variation between the generations has been gigantic, but not necessarily always an improvement.

I think we're going to continue to see huge changes over the next few years. The best B&W I have seen so far came from the new HP Z series.

Edmund
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Brian Gilkes
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« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2007, 04:19:45 PM »
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One of the big problems with digital greyscale prints is that the entire digital workflow is designed for colour. You need a very good monitor to soft proof " black and white". Evaluation of shadows and highlights is especially difficult. I use a profiled Eizo Coloredge monitor but interpret numbers at the ends of the scale. Colour profiles are not good enough. You need greyscale profiles. Even after all that, it is from the hard proof that decisions for  the final edits must be made.

Another small point. As mentioned it is not really appropriate to compare injet prints with silver prints. The "on the surface" characteristics lends them to comparison with platinum/palladium prints.
When this occurs,inkjet prints often come off rather well.
One interesting approach which I have used, is to make an injet print, then via a digital negative fom a deep black separation , overlay a platinum/palladium  image.  Trump that.

The closest relation in the analogue world is the carbon print, also a process that has been highly regarded. Again the inkjet print , with from 2 to 7 carbon inks gives little away.

What would be interesting, would be a flatbed printer that allowed multiple head pass in perfect registration.
As for gloss problems the answer has to be coatings. Glop has to be on the right track  , but there must be a lot of DIY solutions too....

Cheers,


Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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TylerB
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« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2007, 04:36:45 PM »
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I just realized that this show, of which I will be a part, will be a good opportunity for people to compare for themselves if in the Seattle area. Two of us are ink, one is silver.

http://www.benhamgallery.com/exhibit/2007/...ey_Exhibit.html

Tyler
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