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Author Topic: Mamiya 645 AFD II vs Hasselblad H2  (Read 31213 times)
Willow Photography
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2007, 04:38:46 AM »
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Quote from: pss,Jun 10 2007, 08:40 PM
.there won't be any new lenses for any of these backs and those lenses would be the ONLY reason to buy into the H system in the first place......


Has anybody, who is qualified to say so, anytime said that it will be no more lenses for H2.
I dont think so.
And there are lot of other reasons to buy a H2.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 04:39:13 AM by Willow Photography » Logged

Willow Photography
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2007, 01:04:17 PM »
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Quote from: Willow Photography,Jun , 01:38 AM
Quote from: pss,Jun , 08:40 PM
.there won't be any new lenses for any of these backs and those lenses would be the ONLY reason to buy into the H system in the first place......
Has anybody, who is qualified to say so, anytime said that it will be no more lenses for H2.
I dont think so.
And there are lot of other reasons to buy a H2.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

other then hasselblad themselves? and several dealers?
when the H3 was announced hasselblad also announced that they would not even build the H2 anymore...i guess that plan was put on ice after a major uproar from dealers and clients....but all new hass lenses will somehow be corrected in software, so they won't work on the H2....the first in line was the 28mm.....not sure what is planned now, maybe it won't even be full frame (6x4.5) since hass has redefined full frame as the max size of their 39 back....

i would like to hear the other reasons to buy the H2....
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Willow Photography
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« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2007, 06:01:33 PM »
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other then hasselblad themselves? and several dealers?
when the H3 was announced hasselblad also announced that they would not even build the H2 anymore...i guess that plan was put on ice after a major uproar from dealers and clients....but all new hass lenses will somehow be corrected in software, so they won't work on the H2....the first in line was the 28mm.....not sure what is planned now, maybe it won't even be full frame (6x4.5) since hass has redefined full frame as the max size of their 39 back....

i would like to hear the other reasons to buy the H2....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122226\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There have never been announced a H3. Only a H3D.
And that has nothing to do with the H2.
Actually I do not think Hasselblad has said that there will be no more lenses for H2.
And that I have directly from Hasselblad.

Your bashing of Hasselblad is stupid and not very helpful for people seeking
information here.
It makes your comments unreliable.
You now write that you are not sure what is planned now from Hasselblad.
That must be one of your must true writings about Hasselblad.  

I prefer H2, but I am not talking only shit ( and sometimes direct lies ) about other brands.

Reasons to pick H2 :

- best AF in MF
- best viewfinder
- fast flash sync
- very solid build ( maybe feels like plastic to some, but def. not made of plastic )
- great lenses
- lots of option to set up camera to suit your shooting style ( if you are able and willing to
   learn how to use a work tool you will be using for many years. )
- built in flash ( very useful if you know how to utilize it )
- available in many renthouses if you need to add something just for the occasion
- HY6 is still not on the marked  
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Willow Photography
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« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2007, 06:39:01 PM »
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There have never been announced a H3. Only a H3D.
And that has nothing to do with the H2.
Actually I do not think Hasselblad has said that there will be no more lenses for H2.
And that I have directly from Hasselblad.

Your bashing of Hasselblad is stupid and not very helpful for people seeking
information here.
It makes your comments unreliable.
You now write that you are not sure what is planned now from Hasselblad.
That must be one of your must true writings about Hasselblad.   

I prefer H2, but I am not talking only shit ( and sometimes direct lies ) about other brands.

Reasons to pick H2 :

- best AF in MF
- best viewfinder
- fast flash sync
- very solid build ( maybe feels like plastic to some, but def. not made of plastic )
- great lenses
- lots of option to set up camera to suit your shooting style ( if you are able and willing to
   learn how to use a work tool you will be using for many years. )
- built in flash ( very useful if you know how to utilize it )
- available in many renthouses if you need to add something just for the occasion
- HY6 is still not on the marked 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


this is getting old....everytime i share my experiences or opinions about hasselblad you somehow find it necessary to start another personal attack....maybe i am "talking shit" to you...but i am really not talking to you, so please keep it to yourself......
several of the Pros you listed of the hass, i also listed in my previous post, maybe you should read that....
best af: i have worked with both hass and mamiya and they both suck....have you ever WORKED with a 645afdII?
the 645afdII has probably the same amount of options for personal functions...way too many...

AGAIN: have you ever actually worked with a 645afdII? you would know all this if you have.....


i know that there is no H3....
it was widely reported that hass was thinking of stopping production of the H2 when the H3D was announced...i am not making this up.....there has been one lens announced since then and it won't work on H2 or H1.....
one of the reasons for the H3D is the software correction for lenses....so why would the next lenses not take advantage of that.....think about it for a second....
the proof will come out when the next lens come out....whenever that will be....

ANY rental house will most likely have both systems....

the Hy6 is not out, but the 6008 is with 1/1000 and works with sinar backs at 25iso....

yes...people switch to MF and pay a premium for a built in flash with GN 12 (which btw works great with the zoom for that "lens shade effect on the subject)

i am glad you are happy with your H2...that is what matters...
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Willow Photography
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« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2007, 07:16:20 PM »
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this is getting old....everytime i share my experiences or opinions about hasselblad you somehow find it necessary to start another personal attack....maybe i am "talking shit" to you...but i am really not talking to you, so please keep it to yourself......
several of the Pros you listed of the hass, i also listed in my previous post, maybe you should read that....
best af: i have worked with both hass and mamiya and they both suck....have you ever WORKED with a 645afdII?
the 645afdII has probably the same amount of options for personal functions...way too many...

AGAIN: have you ever actually worked with a 645afdII? you would know all this if you have.....
i know that there is no H3....
it was widely reported that hass was thinking of stopping production of the H2 when the H3D was announced...i am not making this up.....there has been one lens announced since then and it won't work on H2 or H1.....
one of the reasons for the H3D is the software correction for lenses....so why would the next lenses not take advantage of that.....think about it for a second....
the proof will come out when the next lens come out....whenever that will be....

ANY rental house will most likely have both systems....

the Hy6 is not out, but the 6008 is with 1/1000 and works with sinar backs at 25iso....

yes...people switch to MF and pay a premium for a built in flash with GN 12 (which btw works great with the zoom for that "lens shade effect on the subject)

i am glad you are happy with your H2...that is what matters...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122276\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If I should attack you, as you say, every time you are bashing Hasselblad, I would
have a lot to do. I have done it ONE time before.
The reason for software correction for 28 is... yes it is a 28. Pretty wide for MF.
Not sure every other new lens needs correction .....think about it for a second....
" widely reported" is more like rumours than facts.

Yes, I have worked with Mamyia 645 AFDII.
No, people do not switch to MF for a built in flash. I only see it as a plus.
And I do not have the zoom ( too big ).

I have had a 6008 also. Returned it because the house created lightspill and made
the pictures looked like overexposed on white background.

I thought you wanted me to list why one should buy a H2.
But now you say that you do not want me to list it,  if it is on your list too.  
I wonder who you are talking to.
So many rants you have had about Hasselblad, it must be to your self.
Most others are fed up by the same "information" over and over again.
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Willow Photography
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« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2007, 09:38:48 PM »
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If I should attack you, as you say, every time you are bashing Hasselblad, I would
have a lot to do. I have done it ONE time before.
The reason for software correction for 28 is... yes it is a 28. Pretty wide for MF.
Not sure every other new lens needs correction .....think about it for a second....
" widely reported" is more like rumours than facts.

Yes, I have worked with Mamyia 645 AFDII.
No, people do not switch to MF for a built in flash. I only see it as a plus.
And I do not have the zoom ( too big ).

I have had a 6008 also. Returned it because the house created lightspill and made
the pictures looked like overexposed on white background.

I thought you wanted me to list why one should buy a H2.
But now you say that you do not want me to list it,  if it is on your list too.   
I wonder who you are talking to.
So many rants you have had about Hasselblad, it must be to your self.
Most others are fed up by the same "information" over and over again.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


i just read your posts again and still don't get your point....english is not my first language, maybe it isn't yours either, maybe i am just crazy.....maybe that is why i have such deep hatred for all things hasselblad....

why don't you just say what you want to say about the actual product, share your experiences, your thoughts and if you have something to say to me, i (unlike you) share my info openly here, my address, even my phone...so feel free to contact me if you have a problem with my experiences or opinions...

btw: the topic starter sent me a private message thanking me for my balanced post....
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LA30
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« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2007, 10:30:37 PM »
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YO, YO, YO, HEY, HEY, HEY...Corners.....

Ok.  Now that we are back on track.....I am going to go with the H2, actually the H1 I think(demo body).  Why?  Well it is the most popular in rental house all over the USA.  I will be able to get rental bodies (as back up) and rental lenses in the cities that I will be shooting in.  I don't mind the feel of either, er should I say that I don't really like either.  Vertical grip anyone?  I like to shoot at f4 not f8 and that stinks on the Hassi in the sun.  So now I go and but a $200 ND filter for the lens and I have trouble seeing to focus.....sucks.   But I Don't really like the feel of the focus rings on the Mamiya, I do like the Hassi rings.  I do like the price of the mamiya a lot... a lot...

I like opinions and that is what this forum is about.  We can't all own everything, we have to ask folks what they like and what they don't like to help us form an opinion...Easy up on the name calling please, we are just talkin' out loud here..

Thanks for the great, spirited well thought out post.

Ken
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« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2007, 05:58:29 AM »
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Hi
This will be an on going debate. The price will come into play at the end either you will spend more or less. Besides flash X or 1/4000 shutter speed it will come down to how much you want to spend & this does not end, how much will your insurance cost each year. You are buying a tool in the end. I am very happy with my Mamiya system plus the fact that I insured a 645 AFD with 5 lenses for $5000.00 AUD 0r $4000.00 USD, replacement cost. Why , because I can go to ebay & replace them for that cost. I have shot bill boards, bus shelters with this system using the Aptus 22 & ZD for editorial. I used to own a 500 cm with a 120 & 50 mm. Looking back I wished I had owned Mamiya at least I would have owned more lenses. The way Hasselblad is going I think it is a great  system if you are using the Imacon back, this gives you thee full range of lenses (28mm). Even with the new Hy6 camera coming out, Mamiya is still the only true open platform system on the market today.
Thanks Denis[

URL=http://www.montalbetticampbell.com]My Webpage[/URL]
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« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2007, 10:43:28 AM »
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YO, YO, YO, HEY, HEY, HEY...Corners.....

Ok.  Now that we are back on track.....I am going to go with the H2, actually the H1 I think(demo body).  Why?  Well it is the most popular in rental house all over the USA.  I will be able to get rental bodies (as back up) and rental lenses in the cities that I will be shooting in.  I don't mind the feel of either, er should I say that I don't really like either.  Vertical grip anyone?  I like to shoot at f4 not f8 and that stinks on the Hassi in the sun.  So now I go and but a $200 ND filter for the lens and I have trouble seeing to focus.....sucks.   But I Don't really like the feel of the focus rings on the Mamiya, I do like the Hassi rings.  I do like the price of the mamiya a lot... a lot...

I like opinions and that is what this forum is about.  We can't all own everything, we have to ask folks what they like and what they don't like to help us form an opinion...Easy up on the name calling please, we are just talkin' out loud here..

Thanks for the great, spirited well thought out post.

Ken
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


unfortunately there is no perfect system....but each and every system works for someone for different reasons....the important part is to be able to work with it and not hate it too much....

somehow like voting in an election....

i also don't understand why there is no vertical grip on the hass or the mamiya....
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« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2007, 05:34:58 PM »
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As for the "plasticky" feeling mentioned about the Hassy and the Mamiya they are both solid underneath. The Mamiya is built on a die cast aluminum body and a magnesium viewfinder body.

I didn't see a nickel's worth of difference between the view finder brightness between them.
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« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2007, 07:41:47 PM »
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I tried a Hasselblad when I tested a P45 and found I didn't like the feel of the camera.  It's something I can't put in words - just a feeling, I find like the Mamiya better- juest feel it "fits" better.  Ndeither one felt "cheap" it was all in how the camera body felt in my hands while up to my eye.  This is an old debate just like who makes a better truck - Ford or Dodge (I have a F350   )

Bottom line is no matter what anyone else says how does it feel to you and will it work for you.  Those are the two major questions before the money question comes into play.  Which one will give you the most bang for the buck.

Don
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« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2007, 03:53:00 PM »
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As for the "plasticky" feeling mentioned about the Hassy and the Mamiya they are both solid underneath. The Mamiya is built on a die cast aluminum body and a magnesium viewfinder body.
I had heard the "plasticky" comments about the Mamiya as well, so I was expecting to be disappointed when I tried one for the first time. To my pleasant surprise, I loved the feel of the Mamiya. It felt rock solid, and unfortunately a bit heavier than I had expected. I liked it much better than the Contax, for example. Anyway, I liked it so much I ended up going with the Mamiya.

There are a lot of opinions and personal biases on this forum. It's human nature. I advise everyone to test a system for themselves, however, before taking anything on this forum as gospel. Remember that everyone has different needs, so everyone is going to react to various systems differently. Any of the systems on the market today will do a great job, so you really can't go too wrong. People just need to find the system that's right for them. And that takes personal testing.

Regards,
Mort.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 03:55:15 PM by Mort54 » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2007, 03:19:31 AM »
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I had heard the "plasticky" comments about the Mamiya as well, so I was expecting to be disappointed when I tried one for the first time. To my pleasant surprise, I loved the feel of the Mamiya. It felt rock solid, and unfortunately a bit heavier than I had expected. I liked it much better than the Contax, for example. Anyway, I liked it so much I ended up going with the Mamiya.

There are a lot of opinions and personal biases on this forum. It's human nature. I advise everyone to test a system for themselves, however, before taking anything on this forum as gospel. Remember that everyone has different needs, so everyone is going to react to various systems differently. Any of the systems on the market today will do a great job, so you really can't go too wrong. People just need to find the system that's right for them. And that takes personal testing.

Regards,
Mort.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123347\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi, could you please explain why you like the mamiya better than the contax? I feel that the autofocus of the contax is a little bit slow for my needs, so I'm selling it and switching to Mamiya. But I'm concern about the ergonomics and feel. The contax is so good...

Thank's
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Mort54
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« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2007, 09:05:58 AM »
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Hi, could you please explain why you like the mamiya better than the contax? I feel that the autofocus of the contax is a little bit slow for my needs, so I'm selling it and switching to Mamiya. But I'm concern about the ergonomics and feel. The contax is so good...
Hi Samuel. Like I said, everyone has different needs. All I can say is that when I took a borrowed Contax out for a day of test shooting, I didn't like it at all. Then I took a borrowed Mamiya out for a day, and it just felt right. The controls just felt smoother and more intuitive. It was smaller and lighter (at least it felt smaller and lighter). Metering seemed more accurate. The way you dial in exposure compensation seems more natural. It just clicked with me. I will say that I like the Contax autofocus button better (larger, and better positioned than on the Mamiya), but that's about the only thing I like better on the Contax. I suggest finding a Mamiya dealer nearby and just go handle one. Maybe it'll work for you, and maybe not. But you should try it to find out, rather than base your decision on subjective comments on this forum.
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« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2007, 01:00:44 PM »
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Hi, could you please explain why you like the mamiya better than the contax? I feel that the autofocus of the contax is a little bit slow for my needs, so I'm selling it and switching to Mamiya. But I'm concern about the ergonomics and feel. The contax is so good...

Thank's
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


i really wouldn't be too concerned with ergonomics or feel....both have the controls in the "right" places...you will pick up the camera and shoot without any problems...the 645afdII can be personalized to the max....i tried getting through the menus once and just got bored...i don't need most of that stuff....but some things come in handy....
about the af: not sure how slow the contax is, the mamiya is still no competition to any DSLR and for people shooting, i find it too slow...the wider AF sensor of the adII makes things a bit better (the afdII definitely has better af then the afd) but again...IMO no medium format system has totally relyable af.....maybe the Hy6 with its cross sensors will? the 6008 wasn't bad at all, but also stuck in the middle, like they all are....

oh: you will really miss the vertical grip of the contax.....
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« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2007, 02:38:35 AM »
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Hi Samuel. Like I said, everyone has different needs. All I can say is that when I took a borrowed Contax out for a day of test shooting, I didn't like it at all. Then I took a borrowed Mamiya out for a day, and it just felt right. The controls just felt smoother and more intuitive. It was smaller and lighter (at least it felt smaller and lighter). Metering seemed more accurate. The way you dial in exposure compensation seems more natural. It just clicked with me. I will say that I like the Contax autofocus button better (larger, and better positioned than on the Mamiya), but that's about the only thing I like better on the Contax. I suggest finding a Mamiya dealer nearby and just go handle one. Maybe it'll work for you, and maybe not. But you should try it to find out, rather than base your decision on subjective comments on this forum.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123520\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Quote
i really wouldn't be too concerned with ergonomics or feel....both have the controls in the "right" places...you will pick up the camera and shoot without any problems...the 645afdII can be personalized to the max....i tried getting through the menus once and just got bored...i don't need most of that stuff....but some things come in handy....
about the af: not sure how slow the contax is, the mamiya is still no competition to any DSLR and for people shooting, i find it too slow...the wider AF sensor of the adII makes things a bit better (the afdII definitely has better af then the afd) but again...IMO no medium format system has totally relyable af.....maybe the Hy6 with its cross sensors will? the 6008 wasn't bad at all, but also stuck in the middle, like they all are....

oh: you will really miss the vertical grip of the contax.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123569\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I see... How do you think is the autofocus compared to the H1? I've had an H1 and the autofocus was much faster than the Contax.
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« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2007, 07:38:47 AM »
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I see... How do you think is the autofocus compared to the H1? I've had an H1 and the autofocus was much faster than the Contax.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123680\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The auto focus on the H1/H2 is faster and hunts less than either the Mamiya or the Contax. The Mamiya AFDII closed the gap a bit on speed, but it still hunts more than the H1/H2.

Also, aside from what has been said, there is most definitely a difference in the viewfinders. The H1/H2 viewfinder is brighter - maybe half a stop to a stop - and it is also larger, ie; magnified. It is easier to focus through the viewfinder on an H1/H2 than an Mamiya AFD, no question.

Handling is a much more subjective decision. The AFD feels comfortable to me, although I also find the H1/H2 handles well - the key being the placement of the thumb, which helps balance the weight. The AFD is lighter, but the thumb grip position of the H1/H2 helps balance the heavier H1/H2 - this IMO.

Shoot them side by side, and you'll see the difference in the viewfinder and the AF. But you will also feel the reasonable handling of the AFD. The AFD is affordable (althought the current lens promos of the H1/H2 help offset that to some degree) and capable, and it works. Not as full featured as the H1/H2, and trailing in the categories I described, but lightweight and worth considering.

Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2007, 10:04:43 AM »
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I see... How do you think is the autofocus compared to the H1? I've had an H1 and the autofocus was much faster than the Contax.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


i would say the AF is equal to the H1/2, which really does not mean much because IMO neither are really useable....mostly because of the lack of off center sensors...hunting does not happen at all to me, speed is fine as well.....

in regard to what steve said: i find the grip of the H system too short...i have big hands (i am 6'4) and the H with their heavy lenses is VERY hard to hold for me....and i shoot RZ handheld....

check it out for yourself either way....
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Willow Photography
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« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2007, 03:08:08 PM »
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..i have big hands (i am 6'4) ]


I will never, ever argue with you again.      
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Willow Photography
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« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2007, 04:03:01 PM »
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Quote from: pss,Jun 19 2007, 08:04 AM
 (i am 6'4)  

6'4"?  I got ya by a couple inches - I'm 6'9"    
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