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Author Topic: 13-19 prints, how to get started?  (Read 3107 times)
ecphoto
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« on: June 11, 2007, 07:17:38 PM »
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Well I'm looking to upgrade my epson C88 to a more apropriate printer, I have $800 and am looking at the r2400 and r1800. Do I need to get a monitor calibration device to get accurate color? I have a crt and an lcd and don't know where to go from there. I print about 50/50 interms of color black and white, the color being sports from school, the B&W being fine arts type prints. So my biggest question is which printer do I get and do I need the monitor calibration device(if so any recomendations?) or not?
Thanks so much to every one that replies
-Evan
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 07:19:52 PM by ecphoto » Logged
TylerB
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2007, 08:07:29 PM »
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due to the high percentage of B&W you want to do, the choice is definite- the 2400 over the 1800. The 1800 is decidedly a color printer, with some gloss benefits, it has only one black ink. The two lighter blacks in the 2400 along with the specialized section of the driver for B&W makes it much more suited to doing both adequately.
I can't give objective advice about monitor calibration, in my experience it's not optional. I've had good results from the newest SpyderPro setup, and the EyeOne, with the edge going to the latest Spyder.
Tyler
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Tango_01
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2007, 10:22:20 PM »
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Well I'm looking to upgrade my epson C88 to a more apropriate printer, I have $800 and am looking at the r2400 and r1800. Do I need to get a monitor calibration device to get accurate color? I have a crt and an lcd and don't know where to go from there. I print about 50/50 interms of color black and white, the color being sports from school, the B&W being fine arts type prints. So my biggest question is which printer do I get and do I need the monitor calibration device(if so any recomendations?) or not?
Thanks so much to every one that replies
-Evan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122286\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Evan, if you could stretch a little on your $$ I would say go for the Epson 3800! You'll recover the extra money in one year on ink savings and you can print from 4" to 17" wide.

I had the R1800, and while I was happy with the output, the cost of ink was scaring me. Not only because the 14ml carts cost more per ml but they waste a lot more ink in cleanings every time you change a cart (which you do very often)

Also if you consider the amount of ink that already comes with the 3800 (720ml total) against the ink that comes with the R1800/2400 (about 130ml total) than the difference in final price is minimal.

Think about it.
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TylerB
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2007, 11:04:38 PM »
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Evan, if you could stretch a little on your $$ I would say go for the Epson 3800! You'll recover the extra money in one year on ink savings and you can print from 4" to 17" wide.
...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122308\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



and, no K ink cart switching...
Tyler
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2007, 04:03:41 AM »
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Evan, if you could stretch a little on your $$ I would say go for the Epson 3800! You'll recover the extra money in one year on ink savings and you can print from 4" to 17" wide.

I had the R1800, and while I was happy with the output, the cost of ink was scaring me. Not only because the 14ml carts cost more per ml but they waste a lot more ink in cleanings every time you change a cart (which you do very often)

Also if you consider the amount of ink that already comes with the 3800 (720ml total) against the ink that comes with the R1800/2400 (about 130ml total) than the difference in final price is minimal.

Think about it.
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From the first day the 3800 was introduced we have seen that advice. It is still a question whether it is a good advice for everyone.

The budget is 800 $ and you will need at least 300 $ more to get a 3800. The 700 ml ink more that you get has to be consumed in about a year at least to keep consistency in the ink carts. Approx. 373 A3 prints a year. It can print larger though if you need that. The price per ml is 0.45 Euro say 0.60 $. The switch between the blacks consumes about 3 ml (1.8 $) average and takes 3 minutes. 18 switches to gloss and the PK cart (80 ml) is empty. 54 switches to matte and the MK cart is empty. The switches will take their toll on the number of prints you can make from the original ink carts. With 40 switches total it is 1,5 cart lost and 64 A3 prints less printed. Carts usually do not empty 100% of the 80 ml but I do not count that. The 700 ml at 300$ price difference is 0.43 $ per ml. That are the numbers for the 3800.

On the R2400 the ink price is approx. 0.73 Euro (0.97 $) per ml. Same amount of ml per A3 size, estimated on 1.88 ml per A3. For 300 $ you get 309 ml ink that will print  164 A3s. There is less loss of ink on a black ink switch and it takes less time but something will be lost here too.

I guess if you print less than 100 - 150 A3's (200 - 300 A4's) a year you are better off with the R2400, if you get the 3800 it has to be 300 A3's a year at least to keep fresh ink in the carts and lines.

There's an alternative in the HP B9180. it has both PK and MK ready for printing without a switch. There's one grey ink instead of the two in the R2400. Print cart size is 28 ml x 8 = 224 ml. ML price is the same as for the R2400 but it is frugal on ink, estimates are 11 ml versus 15 ml per square meter. There's no loss on black ink as it doesn't have to switch. B&W printing is good. It has an densitometer based ink calibration that keeps profiles up to date. It costs about 600 $ with 8 carts of 28 ml included. Pigment inks score better than Epson's on fading. Heads can be replaced by the user and are affordable but they should last the printer's lifetime, several years. My estimation is that it has the economy of the 3800 at an initial price lower than the R2400. It has been discussed thoroughly on the DPreview printers forum, pro and con.

[a href=\"http://www.inkjetart.com]http://www.inkjetart.com[/url] will have a review of all the printers mentioned in this thread.

An addition: there's a recent review of 3 A3 pigment printers at photo-i, Epson R2400, the HP B9180 and the Canon 9500. Less on economy as this message does but the rest is covered.

Ernst Dinkla

www.pigemnt-print.com
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 04:46:24 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
ecphoto
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2007, 12:16:50 PM »
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Well I don't think I'm going to be doing 300 A3s a year because I doubt I'll have that much business and I'm still in highschool and don't know if I can afford the extra ink costs, but between the 2400 and 1800 you guys think I should get the 2400? I attached 2 photos that show my style and what I want to print on the new printer
-Evan
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Geoff Wittig
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2007, 12:42:49 PM »
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If black & white is a significant part of your work, you'll be much happier with the Epson 2400. Its "advanced black & white" printing mode is quite good, allowing for some global toning, and it provides an excellent D-max on semigloss/luster paper. I like Ernst Dinkla's math. I have used a 2400 for my black & white prints with good results, judging the better D-max more important than the nominally lower per-print costs I got from my old Epson 7600, which is only good on matte papers.
You may also want to seriously consider HP's 9180 printer.
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feppe
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2007, 01:13:17 PM »
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I have Canon i9950 (euro equivalent of i9900) and am quite happy with it. To get good results you do need to get a hardware monitor calibrator - I use Spyder2. I also got custom-made ICC profiles for my Red River paper (UltraPro Glossy 68lbs), which made the world of difference. Now I get shockingly good results from a printer costing 500.

For added long-term savings you might want to look at Continuous-Flow Ink (CIS) systems. I recently acquired MediaStreet's Niagara IV. Installing was a major pain, but ink costs will be a tiny fraction of the OEM ink costs, and quality comparable. You can get pre-filled CIS from MediaStreet for the Epsons, which is what I'd do if I had one.

Nice pics, btw.

Oh, yeah, about B&W. Since B&W is important for you, I'd stay away from the i9900/i9950, as it's definitely lacking in that department.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 01:14:22 PM by feppe » Logged

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