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Author Topic: DIGITAL BACK PRICING AS I HAVE RESEARCHED  (Read 18248 times)
michael
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« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2007, 04:16:55 PM »
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I've been offline for a few days and have just seen these posts.

The prices quoted are totally bogus. Below dealer cost, as has been pointed out.

I'll leave the thread up rather than delete it because it might serve as a warning to those looking for a deal that is too good to be true. It usually won't be.

Michael
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2007, 04:54:59 PM »
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So I guess that if the above is BS, then the following price for a like new demo P45+ is really the hell of a deal, right? Assumine a 15% gap between Canadian and US$, this one goes for less than 26.000 US$ with zero nego skills required:

http://www.vistek.ca/deals/details.aspx?sku=227503_CR010208

That's obviously a demo unit, but I'd be surprised if Vistek were willing to loose money on this. Why the heck would they want to get rid of a demo back in excellent condition and get a new one while losing money?

Surprisingly, this unit has been listed for at least 4 days and is a easy find on Google. My personnal conclusion is that cheaper can be found in the US rather easily. If that were not the case, this back would have sold in a few hours, wouldn't it?

Am I missing something here?

Regards,
Bernard
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pprdigital
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« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2007, 05:05:47 PM »
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So I guess that if the above is BS, then the following price for a like new demo P45+ is really the hell of a deal, right? Assumine a 15% gap between Canadian and US$, this one goes for less than 26.000 US$ with zero nego skills required:

http://www.vistek.ca/deals/details.aspx?sku=227503_CR010208

That's obviously a demo unit, but I'd be surprised if Vistek were willing to loose money on this. Why the heck would they want to get rid of a demo back in excellent condition and get a new one while losing money?

Surprisingly, this unit has been listed for at least 4 days and is a easy find on Google. My personnal conclusion is that cheaper can be found in the US rather easily. If that were not the case, this back would have sold in a few hours, wouldn't it?

Am I missing something here?

Regards,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123366\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Demo unit pricing is lower than new or inventory pricing for dealers, typically 10% - 15% lower. A dealer turns demo units for any number of various reasons. Normally a dealer likes to make money off of a demo unit, just as they would any other unit. And when they can, they will.

But demo unit inventory is a potential risk for a dealer, because it becomes an inventory unit in a rapidly changing technical landscape. So, at times a dealer may wish to move a demo unit just to refresh the unit with the same unit, although newer, or he may be aware that new product is around the corner. Or he may just want to free up some cash flow. Timing can be a factor in turning a demo unit, so that you are not on the hook for a product that, while still attractive, has dropped thousands of dollars in value because of a new announcement. In cases like these, you may find better deals.

Steve Hendrix
PPR
www.ppratlanta.com
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2007, 05:14:05 PM »
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Demo unit pricing is lower than new or inventory pricing for dealers, typically 10% - 15% lower. A dealer turns demo units for any number of various reasons. Normally a dealer likes to make money off of a demo unit, just as they would any other unit. And when they can, they will.

But demo unit inventory is a potential risk for a dealer, because it becomes an inventory unit in a rapidly changing technical landscape. So, at times a dealer may wish to move a demo unit just to refresh the unit with the same unit, although newer, or he may be aware that new product is around the corner. Or he may just want to free up some cash flow. Timing can be a factor in turning a demo unit, so that you are not on the hook for a product that, while still attractive, has dropped thousands of dollars in value because of a new announcement. In cases like these, you may find better deals.

Steve Hendrix
PPR
www.ppratlanta.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123370\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the feedback.

I can understand why Vistek might want to sell now, but the fact that nobody is interested in buying at that price is the interesting part of the story. I know you don't sell Phaseone and cannot comment on this.

Regards,
Bernard
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mtomalty
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« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2007, 06:13:44 PM »
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Assumine a 15% gap between Canadian and US$, this one goes for less than 26.000 US$ with zero nego skills required:

Actually,it's closer to 8%-9% these days. On a $20K plus (no pun intended) purchase this
becomes more of a factor

Mark
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william
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« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2007, 06:44:50 PM »
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My point wasn't that price is the only factor in making an investment this large.  But it's unrealistic to act as if price isn't useful information to have when making a decision.  Obviously, I would choose a higher price with good service over a lower price with bad service if the difference is marginal.  At some point, however, price does make a difference.  Assume that the price difference between a dealer with good service and a dealer where you're on your own after purchase isn't 10% or 20%, but 40% or 50%.  Taking the lower price and inferior service could be an economically rational choice if one is sufficiently knowledgeable (e.g., if I don't need someone who will show me how to use the back) and willing to take the risk (e.g., willing to take the risk that the product may break and that you'll have to deal directly with the manufacturer rather than having your dealer handle it for you).

My point is that not having any basis for price comparison distorts the market and puts the consumer at a disadvantage.  Free markets depend on information and knowledge.


Quote
.
You want advice on how to get the lowest price? Call the dealer with the worst service and support. That will save you a lot of time.

However much more you spent in that transaction will vanish from your mind the first time you really need their help.

Steve Hendrix
PPR
www.ppratlanta.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123337\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 06:49:13 PM by william » Logged
Dave Gallagher
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« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2007, 06:49:56 PM »
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Actually,it's closer to 8%-9% these days. On a $20K plus (no pun intended) purchase this
becomes more of a factor

Mark
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


9% is actually quite close.  

So vistek's price is accurate.  We have a Demo P45+ for sale 9% less than their current stated price

A few important factors of demo sales prices are the shot count and remaining warranty.  These are unknown in the online offer.

If anyone has a question on Phase One prices we have them here:

[a href=\"http://www.captureintegration.com/sales/newprices.html]http://www.captureintegration.com/sales/newprices.html[/url]

Non + units are no longer offered as new but the prices give a good guideline towards demo or used inventory.

Thanks for fighting this battle Steve.  Sorry that I did not see this thread earlier.
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Sincerely,

Dave Gallagher
President
Capture Integration
http://www.captureintegration.com

PHASE ONE PARTNER OF THE YEAR

Atlanta    (404) 522-7662
Miami      (305) 534-5701
National   (877) 217-9870
Cell         (770) 846-5223
bcroslin
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« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2007, 09:54:04 PM »
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Dave,

Are the prices on the linked sheet the actual price or are those prices negotiable? I think what inspires anxiety in most photographers looking into medium format digital is there seems to be a perception of secrecy in the actual price of the gear.

I can search B+H, Adorama, Roberts, Penn, etc. online and get a very good idea of what a Canon 1Ds MKII costs. I also have a very good idea of the level of service I'll receive buying from B+H versus Roberts or Penn. I think the disconnect comes when in this day-and-age of instant gratification one can't simply search your site or Steve's and find a price that "feels" like the un-negotiable out-the-door price.

Not sure if that makes any sense but I think it might explain all the pricing thread that pop up on these boards.
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« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2007, 04:05:24 AM »
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I knew they ripped me off!! BUT lucky for me the list didn't mention the Leaf 65 for a lower price...PFFFFFF...so I gues no one can get that back under the 17995 plus tax.

Anyways I have been getting letter from rich widows in Nigeria who are willing to split 55,000,000 USD bank accounts with me....and someone wanted to pay full price once on a car I was selling online...they even fedex'ed me a certified check with an amount larger than the asking price and the only thing I had to do was paying them the difference back with a western union money order!

If you are S.T.U.P.I.D. you will think that when is sounds to good to be true it is probably true...but for the majority of us....when it sounds to good to be true is probably is!

I know that you can get a student discount on digital backs and the discount is considerate...BUT you got to show them a lot of proof that you are attending a certain collega and a photography class!

If you can't affort a MF back...just don't buy one....get a 35mm digital camera and no one will hold it against you...and the majority won't even notice the difference....but please stop the conspiracy theory BS...it only works for Mel Gibson and yes he got Julia Roberts (but it was a MOVIE!!!)....for the rest of us...people think we are freaks behaving like that!!
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NBP
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« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2007, 06:38:57 AM »
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the list didn't mention the Leaf 65 for a lower price...PFFFFFF...so I gues no one can get that back under the 17995 plus tax.

Yep, I got one in Feb from a very reputable dealer in NY State for $16995 + tax.
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narikin
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« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2007, 07:34:00 AM »
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notice that the original poster of this BS has not responded, and just disappeared.

please everyone know that those prices are utter nonsense, and the posting was purely intended to confuse and provoke.

quite why a deranged individual would want to do that on a user forum like this is beyond me.

JTFoto - you should seek professional help.
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awofinden
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« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2007, 07:38:29 AM »
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notice that the original poster of this BS has not responded, and just disappeared.

please everyone know that those prices are utter nonsense, and the posting was purely intended to confuse and provoke.

quite why a deranged individual would want to do that on a user forum like this is beyond me.

JTFoto - you should seek professional help.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123500\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think it's an attempt to drive prices down.
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hcubell
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« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2007, 08:25:04 AM »
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I've been offline for a few days and have just seen these posts.

The prices quoted are totally bogus. Below dealer cost, as has been pointed out.

I'll leave the thread up rather than delete it because it might serve as a warning to those looking for a deal that is too good to be true. It usually won't be.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123357\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I cannot speak for all of the prices quoted(I know the Hasselblad prices are fantasyland), but it is my opinion, based upon direct experience as well as "reliable" hearsay, that Phase itself, not the dealers, is subsidizing very attractive deals FOR SOME BUYERS behind the scenes at prices way below the advertised MSRP. These deals appear to be in response to publicly advertised Hasselblad rebate promotions on H3Ds that everyone is eligible for.  That would be fine, meeting the competition, if the playing field were level and everyone had access, but they don't.
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tived
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« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2007, 09:48:09 AM »
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Good post. Pricing is a major consideration. I tried doing a Google search in Australia for the P45 and couldn't find anything definitive, No best buys or lowest price. In fact I was toitally confused as to what I should be paying.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123238\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Ray,

In Australia we have price-fixing!!! and its on a high!

take care

Henrik
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RicAgu
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« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2007, 11:20:51 AM »
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Yeah, these price are a bit out of control, to say the least.

A P30 plus you maybe able to get for $18thou and that is a stretch.  I don't think $15thou is possible
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thsinar
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« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2007, 12:53:38 AM »
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I think that both Steve Hendrix from PPR and Dave Gallagher from Capture Integration, both well known and dealers of good reputation have given a clear answer here: the "published" prices in this tread are well below "dealer costs" and pure BS.

Michael has also intervened to clarify this issue once for all and to say that these prices are bogus.

I don't understand why this discussion goes on and on.

If it needs another reliable source, than I can tell you as well that such enduser prices do simply not exist in the market, wherever you are in the world.

Thierry



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Yeah, these price are a bit out of control, to say the least.

A P30 plus you maybe able to get for $18thou and that is a stretch.  I don't think $15thou is possible
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123550\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2007, 06:43:18 AM »
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Thierry:

Speaking of prices, you had said a while back that the prices for the new camera & back were available "worldwide" yet I've still not been able to find anything anywhere from anyone. The contact you kindly posted has never returned my e-mails, and the dealers in the US have said they don't have a clue and have not been told anything about pricing yet. Can you tell us where we can go to find the prices for this great new camera system? Any info would be most appreciated.

And I guess people keep posting in this thread because, well heck, isn't that what all of these threads are for, for folks to actually talk about stuff? With products like this where the dealers are so tight about prices and it is more like buying a car or a house than a simple piece of camera gear it is always refreshing to hear what others think, even if the original poster was full of it...

UPDATE: Matt did get back in touch with me this morning with some pricing after reading my post above (thanks Matt):

...The Hy6 kit with the Emotion 75LV is $32,500 and the same kit with a 54LV is $30,500.   Sinar Bron does have pricing from Sinar but we have not published a full price list as of yet....
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 08:59:07 AM by ternst » Logged
thsinar
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« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2007, 12:07:15 AM »
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Dear ternst,

as said, Sinar has published and sent out all the prices for all available kits/bundles (Sinar Hy6 camera with digital back) and Sinar Hy6 camera alone as well as the accessories available, this since 3 weeks.

Any distributor worldwide should be able to inform about it, after having calculated thier own prices.

All the best,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry:

Speaking of prices, you had said a while back that the prices for the new camera & back were available "worldwide" yet I've still not been able to find anything anywhere from anyone. The contact you kindly posted has never returned my e-mails, and the dealers in the US have said they don't have a clue and have not been told anything about pricing yet. Can you tell us where we can go to find the prices for this great new camera system? Any info would be most appreciated.

And I guess people keep posting in this thread because, well heck, isn't that what all of these threads are for, for folks to actually talk about stuff? With products like this where the dealers are so tight about prices and it is more like buying a car or a house than a simple piece of camera gear it is always refreshing to hear what others think, even if the original poster was full of it...

UPDATE: Matt did get back in touch with me this morning with some pricing after reading my post above (thanks Matt):

...The Hy6 kit with the Emotion 75LV is $32,500 and the same kit with a 54LV is $30,500.   Sinar Bron does have pricing from Sinar but we have not published a full price list as of yet....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123703\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2007, 12:36:42 AM »
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Support is vital to the equation.  Having your dealers home, cell, mother's home phone numbers are worth more than you will ever save by "Walmarting" your way through the deal.  Find a good dealer and stick with them.  Hendrix and Gallagher are the kind that you want when something is not right.  They are two of the finest.

a
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123348\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So true.  This is not like buying a Canon Elph, where having the lowest price probably is a good thing.  Since the dealers are usually the point of support when something goes wrong, having a solid relationship with a reputable shop is very important.  I think for me, when it comes time to plunk down the cash for a back I would even spend a bit more buying locally at a place like Samy's where I know I can walk in and get help and maybe even a loaner if needed.
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pixelpro
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« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2007, 01:02:03 PM »
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The Hasselblad rep came to see me today and these are the latest offers : Student discount 15%,
trade in any digital back on new H3D 4000+ GBP, 35% off any lens when one buys an H3D before the end of July 2007. I don't know if this is UK only.
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