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Author Topic: LEAF AFI IN THE HANDS OF...  (Read 17451 times)
Dustbak
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2007, 04:00:05 PM »
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The camera just seems like a non-starter to me for use outside a studio environment until there is a rotatable back so that you can easily switch into vertical mode. I cannot imagine removing the back in anything like a harsh, external environment every time I want to shoot a vertical composition. With an H series body and an L bracket, switching to a vertical composition is quick with no risk of contamination of the  sensor with dust, dirt, sand, etc.
Too bad. The Rollei guys are surely capable of developing a very well engineered 645 camera body that could surpass the H series in many ways, with great lenses to boot. It just seems that the marketing people running these companies don't talk with the professional photographers out there to find out what they really want.  Maybe I am wrong. Perhaps there is a large market out there of people who want a camera like the Hy6 that uses a 645 sensor with a finder configured for a 6x6 film back and that requires you to remove the back to shoot verticals. We will see.
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I take my back of my 503&Flexbody all the time. Not ideal but doable if you work precise. So I think you are exaggerating a bit.

But, I thought I read that Sinar was developing a plate so you can rotate the back without taking it of. Not sure if it will come standard with the body, I believe they weren't either.

I do believe you are right, in the part that it is weird a 6x6 camera is developed for a 645 sensor. I agree, unless it has been the plan to come with a larger sensor all along developing a 645 camera might have made more sense?
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pss
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« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2007, 04:01:22 PM »
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the comparisons are a little unfair....you have to take the 90prism into consideration....but all in all very compact....looks to me like this camera can easily be rotated for a couple of vertical/horizontal shots....should not be worse then the mamiya, hass,...not with the WLF of course, but with the 90 prism it should be doable.....

as far as i know the back has to be taken off to be rotated...definitley a step back from the 6008 where the sinarbacks rotate....unbelievable, but true....don't know what they are thinking...make it a couple of mms larger if you have to.....
anyway....
the AF is always described as a cross...which should mean multiple sensors....

i guess the grip does not come off on this one ( like the 6008)...too many controls on it...but i guess it still clicks in different positions?

can't wait for a hands-on...or at least a hands-on report....
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yaya
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« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2007, 04:08:57 PM »
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The camera just seems like a non-starter to me for use outside a studio environment until there is a rotatable back so that you can easily switch into vertical mode. I cannot imagine removing the back in anything like a harsh, external environment every time I want to shoot a vertical composition. With an H series body and an L bracket, switching to a vertical composition is quick with no risk of contamination of the  sensor with dust, dirt, sand, etc.
Too bad. The Rollei guys are surely capable of developing a very well engineered 645 camera body that could surpass the H series in many ways, with great lenses to boot. It just seems that the marketing people running these companies don't talk with the professional photographers out there to find out what they really want.  Maybe I am wrong. Perhaps there is a large market out there of people who want a camera like the Hy6 that uses a 645 sensor with a finder configured for a 6x6 film back and that requires you to remove the back to shoot verticals. We will see.
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Well nothing should stop you from using it with an L-plate or shoot verticals handheld if you so desire. But you also have the option to use the back vertically, with a good, straight, foldable WLF with proper metering.

Plus, this camera was designed to live through more than one generation of sensors/ backs, so the square frame leaves room for further development.

Yair
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nik
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« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2007, 04:36:48 PM »
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Well nothing should stop you from using it with an L-plate or shoot verticals handheld if you so desire. But you also have the option to use the back vertically, with a good, straight, foldable WLF with proper metering.

Plus, this camera was designed to live through more than one generation of sensors/ backs, so the square frame leaves room for further development.

Yair
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Come on Yair! Honestly, who wouldn't prefer a rotatable back than what is currently being offered!? We're talking about using this camera as a 645 very soon, not 6x6 in a year or more. If sinarbacks rotate on the 6008 as pss said, why hasn't this capability made it into the Hy6? Someone, please explain it to me. I can see myself getting tired of attaching/re-attaching the back and asking myself "why can't this thing rotate?"

Nik
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bcroslin
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« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2007, 05:15:06 PM »
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I still don't get the grip on the Hy6. I can't even wrap my brain around shooting a vertical with it. Will there be a more traditional grip offered as an add on or is the grip that's on the camera the only option?

As far as ergonomics go, the Contax continues to look like the best of the bunch IMO.
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Bob Croslin, Photographer
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2007, 05:33:20 PM »
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The camera just seems like a non-starter to me for use outside a studio environment until there is a rotatable back so that you can easily switch into vertical mode.

I think you are making a big deal out of nothing, unless you are spending most of your time in a sand storm. It currently takes me 1 second to rotate the e22 on my 6008AF and the back doesn;t move far from the body. Really a non-issue in most environments.

Besides there is a solution coming. Maybe you missed Thierry's post in which he announced that Sinar will release a rotating adapter?

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Maybe I am wrong. Perhaps there is a large market out there of people who want a camera like the Hy6 that uses a 645 sensor with a finder configured for a 6x6 film back and that requires you to remove the back to shoot verticals. We will see.
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I'm not a fan of 6x6 format but I like the camera because you can use a waist level finder in portrait and landscape modes. 645 cameras can't do that. Even without this advantage, I don't want to be rotating the camera. I'd prefer the camera to stay in one orientation so that the controls are always in the same place.
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« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2007, 05:37:26 PM »
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i guess the grip does not come off on this one ( like the 6008)...too many controls on it...but i guess it still clicks in different positions?

Correct. See the video on Sinar's website.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 05:37:45 PM by foto-z » Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
hcubell
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« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2007, 05:52:56 PM »
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I think you are making a big deal out of nothing, unless you are spending most of your time in a sand storm. It currently takes me 1 second to rotate the e22 on my 6008AF and the back doesn;t move far from the body. Really a non-issue in most environments.

Besides there is a solution coming. Maybe you missed Thierry's post in which he announced that Sinar will release a rotating adapter?
I'm not a fan of 6x6 format but I like the camera because you can use a waist level finder in portrait and landscape modes. 645 cameras can't do that. Even without this advantage, I don't want to be rotating the camera. I'd prefer the camera to stay in one orientation so that the controls are always in the same place.
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I shoot in the rain and snow in New England, in the desert Southwest in the US, and off of dusty dirt roads in Tuscany. I would not want to remove the back for even a split second. Perhaps some people will put up with this kludge, perhaps some people want a 6x6 finder to go with a 645 sensor MFDB, perhaps some people will buy in anticipation of a 6x6 sensor, perhaps some people will buy in anticipation of a rotating adapter. For $35K, I sincerely doubt that there will be many. As I said, too bad, because Rollei's technology and lenses and analogue sensibilities in camera design could have produced a GREAT 645 camera to serve as a platform for Leaf and Sinar backs. I really do hope that it does not become the quirky/niche sort of camera that the Sinar M is, but the marketing track record over the years of the companies behind it do not give me a lot of confidence.
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Carl Glover
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« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2007, 06:02:12 PM »
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I almost work exclusively outside and I'm forever taking the back of my Rollei 6008 and moving it to portrait/landscape. Nothing untoward has happened yet - a sensor is very easy to clean by the way. I've done it in rain, ice and snow and in three weeks time will be doing in Las Vegas and Death Valley. Lots of back removal there too!

Sure, a non-removable rotating back will be fine, but in the meantime I'll get on with what makes me a living with something that is actually in front of me. When it comes out I'll buy it and that will be that. Life goes on...
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pss
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« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2007, 06:05:56 PM »
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I still don't get the grip on the Hy6. I can't even wrap my brain around shooting a vertical with it. Will there be a more traditional grip offered as an add on or is the grip that's on the camera the only option?

As far as ergonomics go, the Contax continues to look like the best of the bunch IMO.
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if you ever used a 6008 you will know how absolutely great the grip actually is....

the only way to shoot vertical would be with a 90 prism....not with the WLF:) that is just crazy...with the 90 prism it should be fine.....but either way...you can rotate the back anyway....

it is just plain idiotic to release the only new 6x6 camera (with film pretty much dead) and make it's ONE and OBVIOUS advantage over everything else...the rotating back...not really rotating, but a re-attach....i really hope they will figure this out....

but i would still much rather have that option then to be forever stuck shooting verticals with a camera that is made for horizontals (as all 645s are).....

it is amazing that the RZ is the only camera supporting pretty much any back, rotates any back, has WLF, prism finders (all larger and brighter then anything else),1/400sync, T/S lenses,..... all at a much lower price.....wait a minute....a truly open system!
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2007, 06:16:22 PM »
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Having a remove a back to switch from landscape to portrait would be an absolute show stopper for me as a landscape shooter. I often shoot in 40 degrees icy slopes with gloves and the very idea of having to take the risk to drop 25.000 US$ worth of silicon is unbearable.

On the other hand, it seems to me that all the other 645 camera also have non rotating backs and that landscape shooters address this shortcoming with L brackets. Poor ergonomics of the grip is non relevant in these situations since release cables are always used.

Is there any reason why a L bracket could not be used on the Hy6?

Regards,
Bernard
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hcubell
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« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2007, 06:25:08 PM »
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Having a remove a back to switch from landscape to portrait would be an absolute show stopper for me as a landscape shooter. I often shoot in 40 degrees icy slopes with gloves and the very idea of having to take the risk to drop 25.000 US$ worth of silicon is unbearable.

On the other hand, it seems to me that all the other 645 camera also have non rotating backs and that landscape shooters address this shortcoming with L brackets. Poor ergonomics of the grip is non relevant in these situations since release cables are always used.

Is there any reason why a L bracket could not be used on the Hy6?

Regards,
Bernard
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I thought about that, Bernard. The controls on the side of the camera may prevent the use of an L bracket. The other issue is that the RRS and Kirk won't make brackets without significant demand. The one that should already have made it is....Sinar!  Have they not thought of that, or is it physically not feasible? Or, is that another accessory to come?
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2007, 06:50:09 PM »
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I still don't get the grip on the Hy6. I can't even wrap my brain around shooting a vertical with it.

The beauty is that you never need to rotate the camera. Just rotate the back. That's a big advantage of the 6x6 system (imo).
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thsinar
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« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2007, 06:55:15 PM »
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none of the 2 photographers are me!:

One Chinese and one South African, FYI.



Thierry

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Thierry, you either have small hands or it is indeed a very compact machine!
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2007, 07:03:57 PM »
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Dear hcubell,

as said and posted here a few days ago, Sinar will produce "rotatable" adapters for this camera: it has nothing to do with marketing, but with feasibility. Feasibility checks have been done and it is feasible, and Sinar will do it.

As said also: no precise time-table for the release of thse rotatable adapters yet, but it should not take that long either.

Best regards,
Thierry

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The camera just seems like a non-starter to me for use outside a studio environment until there is a rotatable back so that you can easily switch into vertical mode. I cannot imagine removing the back in anything like a harsh, external environment every time I want to shoot a vertical composition. With an H series body and an L bracket, switching to a vertical composition is quick with no risk of contamination of the  sensor with dust, dirt, sand, etc.
Too bad. The Rollei guys are surely capable of developing a very well engineered 645 camera body that could surpass the H series in many ways, with great lenses to boot. It just seems that the marketing people running these companies don't talk with the professional photographers out there to find out what they really want.  Maybe I am wrong. Perhaps there is a large market out there of people who want a camera like the Hy6 that uses a 645 sensor with a finder configured for a 6x6 film back and that requires you to remove the back to shoot verticals. We will see.
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Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar
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« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2007, 07:10:21 PM »
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Dear Paul,

- the Sinarbacks do not rotate on the 6008: one has to take them away

- rotatable adapters for Sinarbacks on the Sinar Hy6 are in preparation/production

- the grip does not come off on the Sinar Hy6

- the hand-grip can be moved into 4 different positions

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
as far as i know the back has to be taken off to be rotated...definitley a step back from the 6008 where the sinarbacks rotate....unbelievable, but true....don't know what they are thinking...make it a couple of mms larger if you have to.....

i guess the grip does not come off on this one ( like the 6008)...too many controls on it...but i guess it still clicks in different positions?

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Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar
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« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2007, 07:13:07 PM »
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Dear Nik,

Nothing more to be worried about: see my previous posts: the Sinarbacks shall be available with a rotating adapter plate for the Sinar Hy6.

Best regards,
Thierry

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Someone, please explain it to me. I can see myself getting tired of attaching/re-attaching the back and asking myself "why can't this thing rotate?"

Nik
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Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar
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« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2007, 07:16:05 PM »
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Dear Bob,

the hand-grip is not removable.

I suggest you hold this camera in your hands to get a good idea about its ergonomics (and weight).

Thierry

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I still don't get the grip on the Hy6. I can't even wrap my brain around shooting a vertical with it. Will there be a more traditional grip offered as an add on or is the grip that's on the camera the only option?

As far as ergonomics go, the Contax continues to look like the best of the bunch IMO.
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Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar
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« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2007, 08:06:22 PM »
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Here 2 more snapshots of the Hy6, this time with the 90 prism.

Thierry

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You'd Figure the prism would be the easiest things to make happen. 

From the looks of the Sinar back it looks like it will be difficult to have a 90 degree prism because of the length. 

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Thierry Hagenauer
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rethmeier
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« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2007, 08:13:07 PM »
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Thierry,
is this a real prism or something like the Fuji GX680 mirror-box 90% viewfinder?
And is it rotatable like the Rollei 45% prism that was available for the 6000 series?
Regards,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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