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Author Topic: P30 + 1600iso Sample  (Read 17101 times)
rainer_v
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« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2007, 06:19:04 AM »
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i would like to see tha too. ofcourse first view looks great, but most digitals look good if used in daylight even with hi isos. this may change under tungsten or real low light conditions. also,- without any misscredit to the author here ,- but i cant understand also how to use iso1600 in daylight ( even shadows are visible, so minimum lv13-14 ) without overexposing the lights totally, with f13 + 1/125 @ iso 1600. would be nice if someone could show with lo light shot that the noise we see here holds up under mor "normal" conditions also. thank you.
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rainer viertlböck
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John Sheehy
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« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2007, 07:34:45 AM »
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p.s.: even my Nikon D2x - not the best camera around for high iso photography - performs beautifully at ISO 1600 when there is plenty of light...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=125815\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The difference in noise between cameras with the same size sensor is mainly in the read noises, which are a small noise that blankets the signal, and has almost no effect at all in the highlight areas, and has its main effect in the deepest shadows.  If your subject falls only in the midtone and highlight areas, there is little difference between cameras with the same size sensors except their resolutions.  The noise in the highlights and the midtones is mostly shot noise, determined by real exposure and the quantum efficiency of the sensor/microlens/filter combo.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2007, 07:40:43 AM by John Sheehy » Logged
mtomalty
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« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2007, 06:08:52 PM »
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Nobody doubts that you took the shot with ISO 1600 and nobody doubts your credibility.


Really?  I don't get that impression based on some of  the responses Cole has received in this thread.


Mark
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David WM
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« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2007, 07:22:52 PM »
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Really?  I don't get that impression based on some of  the responses Cole has received in this thread.
Mark
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It has generated interest, which is good, and verrifying accuracy or the conditions needed to get this result shouldn't be an issue, it is from a production line so there are more backs around.
The first part of these images I looked at was the low values of the black soil. Looks great! I would be interested to see if the same sort of values in a different scene, say a night shot with a longer exposure, would give the same sort of relatively noiseless result.
I'm also interested in the idea that using a high iso is the same as underexposing. I was under the impression that there was more to it than that, that the data read from the chip has a compensation for the the settings of the exposure.
David
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stevecoleccs
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« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2007, 08:33:49 PM »
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Edmund - if you want a test done at 1600iso - call a rep, get a demo  AND DO IT YOUR SELF!
~ cole

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Something here doesn't scan.

Could someone with a P30+ * do a "normal" 1600 ISO shoot in "normally" low light ?

Edmund
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eronald
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« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2007, 10:04:29 PM »
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I will try to do just that. But maybe someone who has a back can just dial it up a bit during his next shoot, and shoot with modeling lights instead of the strobes and post an image ?

Hey, I'm a scientist, we bunch believe in independent verification of results. In fact some of my papers were accepted not because they were original, but because they confirmed other people's work.

Edmund

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Edmund - if you want a test done at 1600iso - call a rep, get a demo  AND DO IT YOUR SELF!
~ cole
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« Last Edit: July 01, 2007, 10:05:17 PM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
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« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2007, 10:37:09 PM »
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Thanks for posting these images, I found them very helpful
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brumbaer
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« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2007, 01:08:05 AM »
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Really?  I don't get that impression based on some of  the responses Cole has received in this thread.
Mark
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@Mark,
at the time I wrote this I hadn't got the impression that anybody doubts his credibility, definitely not me. It was an ordinary question and of technical interest.

Asking what shooting parameters were used in a shot is standard procedure.
And with digital backs you never know whether all shooting parameters are correctly transferred from the camera to the back. May it be that the camera doesn't offer the values or the back doesn't take them. Only the exposure time can be determined by the back without any additional information of the camera.

The same goes for the ISO setting on the back. Jut because you tell your back to use ISO 400, it doesn't mean your camera will adapt it's exposure metering and time automatic.

And not knowing about such things does not reduce credibility, avoiding answers or giving knowingly wrong information does. And I have no reason that Cole did or does so.

And by the way I'm still interested in the shooting parameters  but it looks like Cole can not remember them. Probably somebody else knows whether the P30+ on a Contax does read the aperture and exposure time correctly and whether the Contax reacts to changes of the backs ISO value (which is of secondary interest if the values are correctly read by the back).

Regards
SH
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stevecoleccs
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« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2007, 10:23:30 AM »
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Sorry everyone - I did not mean for this to be a scientific test,  just a quick small one.
What I do remember about my quick test is:
P30+,  iso1600,  natural light, Contax camera, 35mm lens, handheld. 125th shutter @ F/13

Processed with C1Pro, noise suppression: Low, Banding: off,  Sharpen: Disable

This was shot just outside the front door of Capture Integration last week
during a PhaseOne open house.

My P30+ will not arrive until a few more weeks, maybe if someone with the time &
a scientific mind with a P30+ can do a real test, or call up Capture Integration in Atlanta
& set up a demo, they are great to work with.

~ cole
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brumbaer
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« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2007, 10:41:09 AM »
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Cole, Thank you very much.

Regards
SH
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mtomalty
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« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2007, 10:48:28 AM »
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The same goes for the ISO setting on the back. Jut because you tell your back to use ISO 400, it doesn't mean your camera will adapt it's exposure metering and time automatic.

Point taken but it also doesn't take too much 'detective work' from anyone who has exposed even
a few film/digital captures in their lives to know that shooting in the shade, as Coles example clearly was,  at 100iso will never yield an exposure combination of 1/125 sec and f 13.

Mark
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brumbaer
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« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2007, 12:31:47 PM »
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Point taken but it also doesn't take too much 'detective work' from anyone who has exposed even
a few film/digital captures in their lives to know that shooting in the shade, as Coles example clearly was,  at 100iso will never yield an exposure combination of 1/125 sec and f 13.

Mark
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Hello Mark,
I do not understand why you are so aggressive, did I do anything to you ?

My line of thought is simple.

125/f13 at ISO 1600 will be about lv10. For me it looks like a bright sunny day as I do know them from the Mediterian. More like lv14-15.
So let's deduct a stop or two or 3 for the shade.

So it seems natural to ask for the parameters, especially for judging noise which depends heavily on the scene and exposure parameters.

I haven't attacked anyone, I haven't blamed anyone, I have asked and have been given an answer and I'm thankful.

And now that I've got an answer I will go and buy my first camera.
Any suggestions, I mainly take pictures of my kids and school sport.
I thought about a Canon 1dIII first, but it has so many confusing dials. And now I lean to one of these real sports cameras which can capture more than 20 frames a second and the best is, they are not only faster but are even cheaper than the canon and have less buttons
I hope you don't mind if I turn to you for help in case I need some ?

Kind regards
SH
« Last Edit: July 02, 2007, 12:32:35 PM by brumbaer » Logged
rainer_v
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« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2007, 02:19:02 PM »
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if you are shooting your kids i would suggest to take the h3 with its 39mp back ( maybe you could buy for the kids one or two  waterproof canon 1dmk3 ),-
if you are interested mostly in cat pics i would suggest you buy the p45 or p30+ ( black colors! ) either with a h2 or with a contax,-
if you shoot the landscapes around berlin you could buy an a75, which will give you a nice line in the center of your images to put the horizont on it ( you should shoot in germany/ brandenburg mainly  in portrait position landscapes,- i dont know why but it is a  fact ) and
if you want to make pics of your house buy the e75 with gottschalt or alpa for the good workflow eMotionDNG can bring you.
and dont forget the mamiya option if you take the car to travel.

hope this helps
« Last Edit: July 02, 2007, 02:23:32 PM by rehnniar » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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brumbaer
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« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2007, 02:38:17 PM »
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if you are shooting your kids i would suggest to take the h3 with its 39mp back ( maybe you could buy for the kids one or two  waterproof canon 1dmk3 ),-
if you are interested mostly in cat pics i would suggest you buy the p45 or p30+ ( black colors! ) either with a h2 or with a contax,-
if you shoot the landscapes around berlin you could buy an a75, which will give you a nice line in the center of your images to put the horizont on it ( you should shoot in germany/ brandenburg mainly  in portrait position landscapes,- i dont know why but it is a  fact ) and
if you want to make pics of your house buy the e75 with gottschalt or alpa for the good workflow eMotionDNG can bring you.
and dont forget the mamiya option if you take the car to travel.

hope this helps
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=126107\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for your post and your good intentions,
but all it did is make me realize that this photography thing is too complicated for me.
I'm grateful that your post reached me just in time, before I wasted any money on it.
It will be better to spend my money on brushes, colors and canvas and start painting.

I just have to train my kids to freeze in motion, when I want to take a picture.

Regards
SH
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Fred Ragland
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« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2007, 02:43:03 PM »
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rainer_v
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« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2007, 02:56:08 PM »
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Thanks for your post and your good intentions,

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=126109\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

 you are welcome.
i know this kind of problems but unfortunately painting does not give me the freedom to spend
€ xx.xxx,-- every year in new gear....

best regards and good luck for your future ....
rainer
« Last Edit: July 02, 2007, 04:40:07 PM by rehnniar » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2007, 06:23:10 PM »
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you are welcome.
i know this kind of problems but unfortunately painting does not give me the freedom to spend
€ xx.xxx,-- every year in new gear....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=126111\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

On the other hand, there is no limitation in output size with painting, which can be a great opportunity to spend big bucks as well, especially if you think about storage area in central Berlin.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
mtomalty
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« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2007, 10:27:33 PM »
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I hope you don't mind if I turn to you for help in case I need some ?

Unfortunately,you'll be needing more help than I'm qualified to give  

Mark
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eronald
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« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2007, 10:55:01 PM »
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I heard Hasselblad are introducing a new Blurrix model, especially for brides: 80 MP totally gaussian filtered straight in the camera so no mistakes can occur in post. Might come useful for the wives too, but not for cats

Edmund
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
brumbaer
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« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2007, 12:20:22 AM »
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Unfortunately,you'll be needing more help than I'm qualified to give  

Mark
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@Mark

than you better start learning about photography, so I can ask.

Regards
SH
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