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Author Topic: Curves  (Read 103194 times)
pcrov
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« on: July 07, 2007, 05:02:57 PM »
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I'm not liking lightroom's tone curve tool. Is there any way to use an old-fashioned photoshop-type curve instead?
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Schewe
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2007, 05:48:35 PM »
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No...
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michael
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2007, 06:23:09 PM »
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Beyond Jeff's accurate but somewhat direct response, I would add the following...

Parametric curves in Lightroom take a little while to learn and become comfortable with. But, when you have, especially in conjunction with the Targeted Adjustment Control, they provide unparalleled control and flexibility.

But, in other words – no.

Michael
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2007, 06:41:46 PM »
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I admit freely to not being a Curves Wizard. Frankly, I just don't have the patience!

The Tone Curve in Lightroom makes a lot more intuitive sense to me - so while you can't do direct adjustments to it, I find I get a lot more out of it than I've ever been able to really do in the Photoshop Curves tool...
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Schewe
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2007, 09:02:04 PM »
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But, in other words – no.
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That's what I said...

:~)
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pcrov
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2007, 02:35:56 AM »
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I guess it's time to learn curves all over again.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2007, 10:54:05 AM »
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The 'problem' is often the user, not LR.'s curves. In the past (and based on who's books you read), you are given the impression that the first stop for any image correction is to go directly to curves and not pass go. But LR isn't Photoshop and shouldn't be looked at in such a light. LR.'s tone and color controls are arranged in a fixed order. Now you don't have to use them this way but going outside this route can lead to issues that cause you to spend more time chasing your tail then getting work done. Bottom line is, the curves are useful for very fine tune adjustments and I find that I often don't even need to use them. They are useful for tiny tone tweaks you may not even need. Do all the heavy lifting using the Basic controls.
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Andrew Rodney
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pcrov
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2007, 11:29:14 AM »
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The 'problem' is often the user, not LR.'s curves.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127598\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well what I wasn't liking was the method of altering the curves - the interface itself. I don't know how that makes me the problem.

In any case it's pretty lame to blame the user when they're having trouble with a piece of software.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2007, 11:45:14 AM »
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Well what I wasn't liking was the method of altering the curves - the interface itself. I don't know how that makes me the problem.

In any case it's pretty lame to blame the user when they're having trouble with a piece of software.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127603\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Parametric curves don't allow you to alter them to hose the image which is good, especially when you understand that you're doing fine tweaks.

There's a pencil option in Photoshop's curves that allow you to severely Posterize the image and you can of course do this using the standard point curves if you pull them too much. That's not possible in LR and as yet, I don't see why anyone would want to do this.

You can't pull individual color channels in LR.'s curves because again, this isn't the place to be doing such work.

LR's Parametric curves are for fine tweaks, end of story.

Now the question that I'd find reasonable would be, if there is point curves in ACR, why not LR? Considering that it appears the good people at Adobe are trying for parity between the two, its a reasonable question. Lose them in ACR or add them in LR, I'm OK with either.
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Andrew Rodney
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2007, 11:48:36 AM »
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Well what I wasn't liking was the method of altering the curves - the interface itself. I don't know how that makes me the problem.

In any case it's pretty lame to blame the user when they're having trouble with a piece of software.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127603\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm with you pcrov... And it's one of the (many) reasons I don't like or use LR.

Adobe spends what, the last 10 years having us do curves one way in Photoshop? We learn it and get accustomed and proficient with one way, then all of a sudden they expect us all to fall in love with parametric sliders?   Sorry, I like the old way, the ability to ctrl/cmd-click a point onto the curve and adjust it. IMO, many improvements aren't...

Cheers,
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digitaldog
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2007, 11:53:44 AM »
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Are you seriously telling me I'm wrong for preferring an interface I've used for years? That it's my problem for not understanding the LR workflow and the role of curves in it?

For fuck's sake, this conversation was already over before you decided to jump in with this bullshit.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127614\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You're incorrect in assuming that editing gamma corrected images in Photoshop is anything like rendering linear gamma raw data. This is a problem I've seen with some so called Photoshop guru's who look at raw modules as if they were Photoshop correction tools. If all you know is a hammer, everything appears like a nail. IF you're rendering raw data (not using LR or ACR to edit existing rendered gamma corrected images which I think is silly), then you have to look at this tool in a different light.

Yes, you're wrong and you don't really know how to communicate and behave in a public forum, at least based on your poor choice of language.
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Andrew Rodney
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pcrov
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2007, 11:53:53 AM »
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Adobe spends what, the last 10 years having us do curves one way in Photoshop? We learn it and get accustomed and proficient with one way, then all of a sudden they expect us all to fall in love with parametric sliders?   Sorry, I like the old way, the ability to ctrl/cmd-click a point onto the curve and adjust it. IMO, many improvements aren't...

Cheers,
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127613\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Exactly. I'm sure the parametric sliders are just lovely, but the photoshop-style curves tool is second-nature to me. It's going to be hard to adjust.
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2007, 11:54:57 AM »
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what an odd reaction.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2007, 11:56:56 AM »
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Go fuck yourself.

Is that better?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127617\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, much better at illustrating your lack of decorum and intelligence.
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Andrew Rodney
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pcrov
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2007, 12:00:14 PM »
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Why are you even here? Did I insult your favorite new toy or something?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2007, 12:05:13 PM »
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Why are you even here? Did I insult your favorite new toy or something?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127621\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No.
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Andrew Rodney
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stewarthemley
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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2007, 12:42:44 PM »
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PCROV Please be aware that many people will be offended by your choice of language on this public forum. My friend's children (quite young) are learning about photography and often visit. I don't see why you felt you had been offended and also why you had to respond as you did. It would be a sign of maturity if you first edited (ie removed) your most offensive posts and then issued an apology.
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pcrov
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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2007, 12:46:06 PM »
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I don't take kindly to self-important assholes telling me my *opinion* is wrong and implying I'm somehow stupid or ignorant for having it. I'll not be editing my posts or apologizing to anyone.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 01:11:40 PM by pcrov » Logged
Schewe
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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2007, 02:13:55 PM »
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I don't take kindly to self-important assholes telling me my *opinion* is wrong and implying I'm somehow stupid or ignorant for having it. I'll not be editing my posts or apologizing to anyone.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127629\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Well, I won't imply ANYTHING...you ARE stupid and ignorant for both your opinion and your behavior and your attitude. You may THINK you have the right to do or say anything you wish, but you don't. Not if you wish to maintain the honor of posting in this group of people.

You need not reply to this message (or you can if you wish) I have chosen to ignore you as a user which means nothing you post will be visible to me-regardless of what you may write. It's a form of banishment open to us in these forums-although truth be told I suspect when Michael sees this thread and your behavior and language, I figure he'll do a bit more.

See ya, have a nice life (and maybe think about changing your meds or getting off caffiene).
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2007, 03:16:42 PM »
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pcrov: I have no role moderating, but from past experience I would simply observe there are rules regarding behaviour on this website, and there are consequences for not respecting them.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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