Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 3 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Hasselblad H 28mm Lens Modification available ?  (Read 18787 times)
Bernd B.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« on: July 12, 2007, 08:40:21 AM »
ReplyReply

I wonder if someone could modify theHasselblad HDC 28 for use on the H1 and H2. There are really creative people out there, for example the guy, who modifies Zeiss Contax N Lenses for fully compatible AF use on Canon EOS-Bodies (www.conrus or so?). The H Cameras are great, but when you don`t want a Kodak-Chip, you are limited to 35mm and that might be a bit  tight in some cases.
Logged
Ed Jack
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 225


« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2007, 11:52:58 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I wonder if someone could modify theHasselblad HDC 28 for use on the H1 and H2. There are really creative people out there, for example the guy, who modifies Zeiss Contax N Lenses for fully compatible AF use on Canon EOS-Bodies (www.conrus or so?). The H Cameras are great, but when you don`t want a Kodak-Chip, you are limited to 35mm and that might be a bit  tight in some cases.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127793\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

 Have you thought about a miniture view camera such as the cambo DSII. No auto-focus, but wide lenses out to 24mm and movements too!
Logged
Bernd B.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2007, 12:55:10 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Have you thought about a miniture view camera such as the cambo DSII. No auto-focus, but wide lenses out to 24mm and movements too!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128068\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The idea isn`t bad, because I could also do an architecture job with such a camera.

But Iīm used to the 45 on my Pentax 67 and used it a lot. For people shots in offices, groups in buildings and for interesting perspectives with music bands. I woulndīt want to miss a real wide angle when I buy into a MF system.

I visited two friends of mine who have an analoge Mamiya 645 AF. I found the system interesting for me, because it is open and has an 28mm, too. But they said they have focussing problems with it because of the bright modern focussing screen. The both of them had lots of pictures slightly out of focus which never appeared with the old Hasselblad V they had before. Indeed whilst trying it, I also had problems finding the focus point. I will of course go to my camera store and try an AFDII to see, if the never models have better screens. But I had a Hasselblad H3D in my hands and even if the design of itīs focussing screen looked strange, I had the impression you could determine the focus point exactly. Expecting a H1 and H2 to have the same finder quality that`s why Iīm interested in the H system and why Iīm disappointed about the Hasselblad politics.

What`s the technical reason why a 28mm HDC won`t work on a H1/H2? Can I mount it, or will it not even fit the camera body? If you can mount it, will the camera software not recognize it? Is this a big problem for a skilled technician?
Logged
MarkKay
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 587


WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2007, 02:27:25 PM »
ReplyReply

From my understanding the issue is that the lens is not chipped for the H1/H2 so it is all based on electronics and will mount on the H1/H2. While I suspect there is a way to get around this issue at least to allow for manual focus (although I am guessing here), the optically corrections that are made by the H3D with this lens will be lost. You will loose some of the optical advantages this lens has with the H3D system.

I am just hoping that when and if Hasselblad releases some T/S options, it is not restricted to the H3D.

Quote
The idea isn`t bad, because I could also do an architecture job with such a camera.

But Iīm used to the 45 on my Pentax 67 and used it a lot. For people shots in offices, groups in buildings and for interesting perspectives with music bands. I woulndīt want to miss a real wide angle when I buy into a MF system.

I visited two friends of mine who have an analoge Mamiya 645 AF. I found the system interesting for me, because it is open and has an 28mm, too. But they said they have focussing problems with it because of the bright modern focussing screen. The both of them had lots of pictures slightly out of focus which never appeared with the old Hasselblad V they had before. Indeed whilst trying it, I also had problems finding the focus point. I will of course go to my camera store and try an AFDII to see, if the never models have better screens. But I had a Hasselblad H3D in my hands and even if the design of itīs focussing screen looked strange, I had the impression you could determine the focus point exactly. Expecting a H1 and H2 to have the same finder quality that`s why Iīm interested in the H system and why Iīm disappointed about the Hasselblad politics.

What`s the technical reason why a 28mm HDC won`t work on a H1/H2? Can I mount it, or will it not even fit the camera body? If you can mount it, will the camera software not recognize it? Is this a big problem for a skilled technician?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128078\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 02:28:40 PM by MarkKay » Logged
david o
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 310



WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2007, 02:53:37 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
... I found the system interesting for me, because it is open and has an 28mm, too. But they said they have focussing problems with it because of the bright modern focussing screen. The both of them had lots of pictures slightly out of focus which never appeared with the old Hasselblad V they had before. Indeed whilst trying it, I also had problems finding the focus point. I will of course go to my camera store and try an AFDII to see, if the never models have better screens...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128078\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There is actually another screen that works like the dslr before AF with a circle split in half I don't know the english name but you know what I mean.
BTW there is an assistance for the focus so it wouldn't be a problem
Logged
Bernd B.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2007, 03:14:24 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
From my understanding the issue is that the lens is not chipped for the H1/H2 so it is all based on electronics and will mount on the H1/H2. While I suspect there is a way to get around this issue at least to allow for manual focus (although I am guessing here), the optically corrections that are made by the H3D with this lens will be lost. You will loose some of the optical advantages this lens has with the H3D system.

Optical corrections can be applied in other software as well. There are rumors that phase will impliment optical corrections for the Mamiya 28mm in their C1 software. Why not for the Hasselblad 28mm later? And there are solutions like DXO and Acolens.

Quote
I am just hoping that when and if Hasselblad releases some T/S options, it is not restricted to the H3D.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Maybe a T/S will come with the H4D and is not compatible with the H3D. When you want to use it, you have to upgrade? Nice idea for constantly selling the newest products. Introduce a must have lens with each new camera body. Not downwards compatible, of course!
Logged
Bernd B.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2007, 03:34:57 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
There is actually another screen that works like the dslr before AF with a circle split in half I don't know the english name but you know what I mean.
BTW there is an assistance for the focus so it wouldn't be a problem
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Any focusing support, AF or a split something screen in the center is not a real help. For a while I only used the center AF-field for focussing with a DSLR and had constant backfocuses, almost none with telephoto-lenses but with every stronger wideangle. One day I found this interesting website:

[a href=\"http://visual-vacations.com/Photography/focus-recompose_sucks.htm]http://visual-vacations.com/Photography/fo...mpose_sucks.htm[/url]

Since then, I activate the AF-field that is close to my desired focus point. My results have become dramatically better. Thatīs the reason why I wouldn`t rely on a center only AF like they are used in medium format cameras. I need a good screen for manual focussing. My Pentax 67 and 67II have wonderful screens. No problems with the 45, 55 and 75 wideangles.

I have to admit Iīm shooting aperture wide open most of the time.

If you want to see some examples:

www.bernd-bodtlaender.de
Logged
josayeruk
Guest
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2007, 03:43:50 PM »
ReplyReply

To be honest Bernd I don't have a problem with the center AF focus, even with recomposing the results are still sharp at wide open apertures.

Its true that optical corrections can be applied in other software but this would involve me using another piece of software and also buying this other piece of software.

All I do in FlexColor is tick a box and I can correct for distortion, chromatic abberation and vignetting.  This is based on meta data from the lens which I guess other software couldn't read.

Embrace the integration of the H2/3D Bernd - its not such a bad thing!  

Jo S.x
Logged
Jack Varney
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 392


WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2007, 03:59:31 PM »
ReplyReply

Mamiya makes a "Type C" screen designed for use in focusing with the manual focus lenses on the 645 AF, AFD and AFD II. It is not quite as bright but has a better ground glass and includes a micro-prism circle. I prefer this wth all of the lenses except under very dark situations.
Logged

Jack Varney
Bernd B.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2007, 04:11:49 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Mamiya makes a "Type C" screen designed for use in focusing with the manual focus lenses on the 645 AF, AFD and AFD II. It is not quite as bright but has a better ground glass and includes a micro-prism circle. I prefer this wth all of the lenses except under very dark situations.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128110\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sounds good! Thatīs a good hint!  

Do the 645AFD and 645AFDII have other (better) standart screens than the original 645AF?

Bernd
Logged
Gary Ferguson
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 522


WWW
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2007, 11:43:26 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I am just hoping that when and if Hasselblad releases some T/S options, it is not restricted to the H3D.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Has anyone heard anything about the plans for H T&S lenses? I had an H1 for a while before moving back to the V system, mainly for the tilt and shift functionality of the Hasselblad Flexbody, where it's a useful alternative to a view camera for cramped architectural interiors.

When the H system was released Hasselblad stated that T&S lenses were something they were looking at, but I never heard anything more about their plans.
Logged
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2214


WWW
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2007, 04:05:15 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
focus-recompose_sucks..


http://visual-vacations.com/Photography/fo...mpose_sucks.htm

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128105\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The problen is exacabated by the high res and low DOF in MF equipment

This is  exactly why I have always considered center point almot AF useless !


And therefore been an exponent of the H1/2/3 with its bright (if barrelled) view even though the_hassy_system_sucks if you own a non hassy back !

incedentally on topic..

I have never actually heard a 28mm owner say what sort of errors occur if you just stick that lens on an h1/2 and press the button

I am sure the barrelling could be sorted in software

S
Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
Khun_K
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 349


WWW
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2007, 04:59:21 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
The problen is exacabated by the high res and low DOF in MF equipment

This is  exactly why I have always considered center point almot AF useless !
And therefore been an exponent of the H1/2/3 with its bright (if barrelled) view even though the_hassy_system_sucks if you own a non hassy back !

incedentally on topic..

I have never actually heard a 28mm owner say what sort of errors occur if you just stick that lens on an h1/2 and press the button

I am sure the barrelling could be sorted in software

S
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128274\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have the H3D39 system and the 28mm lens. I did mount the lens on a friend's H2 system (but he uses P45+) and the H2's shutter just won't work when the 28mm lens is mounted on. So is my H3D39 back won't work with the H2 (obviously without the power supply) but even tethered the camera just won't work.  The 28mm lens is OK for such wide angle lens, but it is not superior than the 35mm or 50mm, except it is wider. Even without the DAC the lens is OK with little distortion and visible chromatic issues. But the lens is just OK, it does not have a strong character, just a superwide, reasonable sharp and good corrected lens.  The 28mm is visibly behind the Schneider Digitar 24mm I have for my Alpa, and I will asume it is behind the HR 28mm from Rodenstock.
Logged
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2214


WWW
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2007, 06:21:29 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I have the H3D39 system and the 28mm lens. I did mount the lens on a friend's H2 system (but he uses P45+) and the H2's shutter just won't work when the 28mm lens is mounted on. So is my H3D39 back won't work with the H2 (obviously without the power supply) but even tethered the camera just won't work.  The 28mm lens is OK for such wide angle lens, but it is not superior than the 35mm or 50mm, except it is wider. Even without the DAC the lens is OK with little distortion and visible chromatic issues. But the lens is just OK, it does not have a strong character, just a superwide, reasonable sharp and good corrected lens.  The 28mm is visibly behind the Schneider Digitar 24mm I have for my Alpa, and I will asume it is behind the HR 28mm from Rodenstock.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128276\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

TA

This is the first ever confirmation I have read from a user !

I guess Ill have to mug up on stitching two shots from the 35 if a client ever wants superwide

I wonder waht the best solution is for rotating this lens around its nodal point

S
Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
josayeruk
Guest
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2007, 07:50:29 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
TA

This is the first ever confirmation I have read from a user !

I guess Ill have to mug up on stitching two shots from the 35 if a client ever wants superwide

I wonder waht the best solution is for rotating this lens around its nodal point

S
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You could try this Morgan...

[a href=\"http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/Customkititems.asp?kc=CRD%2D87%2DPkg&eq=]http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/Custom...%2D87%2DPkg&eq=[/url]


Still, never had a focus issue with recomposing on center AF with the H2D.

Maybe the focus calibration of Phase Backs is a bit out?


Jo S.x
Logged
Khun_K
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 349


WWW
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2007, 02:36:16 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
TA

This is the first ever confirmation I have read from a user !

I guess Ill have to mug up on stitching two shots from the 35 if a client ever wants superwide

I wonder waht the best solution is for rotating this lens around its nodal point

S
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128280\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not that the HCD 28mm is not a good lens, it is OK, or may be as good as the reflex medium format lens can be, compact and focus quite quickly, but it is just not stand out (except its super wide angle) as many come to expect, or at least I expect. For single shot, perhaps it is the only solution for the SLR type capture. For extreme quality, I don't suppose it is a strong alternative than cameras capable of using those HR or Digitar lenses. Or, stitched panoramic will be a even better solution.
Logged
Bernd B.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2007, 04:31:46 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I have the H3D39 system and the 28mm lens. I did mount the lens on a friend's H2 system (but he uses P45+) and the H2's shutter just won't work when the 28mm lens is mounted on. Even without the DAC the lens is OK with little distortion and visible chromatic issues.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128276\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thatīs what I thought: all that "for your comfort only" talk from Hasselblad is not honest. The truth seems to be marketing reasons. Sell their own backs instead of those of competitors. But this has nothing to do with competition. If they believed in the quality of their backs, they would let the photographers make the decision.

Stitching two shots from the 35mm lens is not an alternative for someone who shoots people. If I decide for a camera system, I want a strong wideangle in my collection, like I have it with my pentax 67 now. And the 35mm (like I have it for my Pentax 645) is not such a strong wide with a 48x36mm sensor. 28mm is something essential for a digital medium format SLR.

So is it possible to get the shutter of a H2 to work with a 28mm? There might be two possibilities: a pirate firmware-update for the camera. Maybe not such a good idea for a camera that frequently locks up even with the most actual original firmware. Second: chip the 28 like a 35. Make the camera believe it deals with a 35mm? Is that a business for a creative camera technician? How much would we pay for such a modification (if it was working reliably)? 500 USD?
Logged
Khun_K
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 349


WWW
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2007, 01:08:12 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Thatīs what I thought: all that "for your comfort only" talk from Hasselblad is not honest. The truth seems to be marketing reasons. Sell their own backs instead of those of competitors. But this has nothing to do with competition. If they believed in the quality of their backs, they would let the photographers make the decision.

Stitching two shots from the 35mm lens is not an alternative for someone who shoots people. If I decide for a camera system, I want a strong wideangle in my collection, like I have it with my pentax 67 now. And the 35mm (like I have it for my Pentax 645) is not such a strong wide with a 48x36mm sensor. 28mm is something essential for a digital medium format SLR.

So is it possible to get the shutter of a H2 to work with a 28mm? There might be two possibilities: a pirate firmware-update for the camera. Maybe not such a good idea for a camera that frequently locks up even with the most actual original firmware. Second: chip the 28 like a 35. Make the camera believe it deals with a 35mm? Is that a business for a creative camera technician? How much would we pay for such a modification (if it was working reliably)? 500 USD?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128317\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
With the new flexcolor 4.7 Hasselblad add one more digital correction : vignette but frankly I see little need (some might disagree) for that since the range of lenses from what I have and tried, they are pretty good in this regard, at least for single shot. I suppose the vignette correction has more to do when you need to stitch multiple captures. Anyway, from what I can tell on my shoot with the HCD 28mm, the lens is pretty well corrected, and although you can see the difference of distortion correction, it is hard to tell the difference unless you put the before and after image together. One may find the image before correction is acceptabe. And for this reason, I am pretty convinced that the 28mm can be used on H1/H2 cameras with acceptable results, and Hasselblad decided (at least for now) not to support it is base on the argument that the lens was designed with the digital correction function in mind and software and they want the result to be optimized, and also for marketing reason - because they are the only one with such focal length in the market and they can force more consumers to buy the system just for this extra lenses.
I also use Contax 645 and P45 and for such old system, the Contax line of lenses held up well against the HC/HCD lenses.
For wide angle or architecture shoot, I think there is really not much choice, that the Digitar and HR lenses are still the clear winner for really serious works. I am not so sure if the coming Hy6 will change this but with their close relationship with Schneider Optics the Hy6 may be an interesting system to see how it developed.
Logged
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2214


WWW
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2007, 01:11:57 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
the Hy6 may be an interesting system to see how it developed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128379\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Hy6 people havnt even got a 35 together yet

 They must be facing huge challenges in clearing the 66 mirror and trying to cover the FF area.

The lense wil need to be at least 15mm 'more retrofocal' because of the square format

I wouldnt hold breath for a HY6 28

A mirror less camera like alpa would be OK if focusable

I think live view should have some sort of focus confirmation even fed back onto the rangefinder viewer of a alpa style camera

if this was matched with the HY6 in a seamless package ..

S
Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
Nick_T
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2007, 02:42:41 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
. Maybe not such a good idea for a camera that frequently locks up even with the most actual original firmware.

Which hasselblad camera do YOU have?
The three H bodies that I have here are rock solid since the last few firmware updates. Earlier cameras did freeze/hang but this is old news.

Nick-T
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 3 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad