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Author Topic: New wide Epson printers + spectro option  (Read 55691 times)
keith_cooper
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« on: July 13, 2007, 08:26:34 AM »
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I was just sent some info on a new range of wide printers from Epson in September. The 4880/7880/9880/11880 (last is 64") will have a reformulated ink set (better gamut) and the option of a technician fitted spectrophotometer ($1500)

I've put the info and links on a page if anyone is curious...

If anyone has any comment/confirmation I'd be curious to know, since I'm looking forward to updating my 9600 to a printer that economically lets me use Pk and Mk. I've recently had a 3800 on loan from Epson UK for a review and was quite taken with its image quality improvements over the 9600.

bye for now, Keith Cooper
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rdonson
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2007, 08:59:15 AM »
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Interesting rumor and it does have the effect of freezing printer purchases in favor of waiting for the next gen Epson.

Still, until there are real details its just fun speculation.

I see no mention of a gloss enhancer which is a feature I really like on my HP Z3100
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Ron
chris anderson
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2007, 09:24:56 AM »
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the printers are EXACTLLY the smae as the current lineup, except for a different magenta ink..... You CANT put the new ink in the older models, epson screws everybody AGAIN!
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Panascape
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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2007, 09:48:01 AM »
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I have seen some prints form the new Epson and they are stunning. Also seen some full colour B&W prints with no evidence whatsoever of bronzing or banding.

There were print comparisons from a z3100 out of the box and the Epson out of the box and there was no comparison between the colour rendition with Epson ahead by miles especially in the red and blues areas. If my z3100 produced anything close to the new Epson I would have nothing to complain about.

From the prints I have seen I would say it is highly likely that Epson have changed more than just the magenta ink.
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Charles Gast
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2007, 09:49:35 AM »
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the printers are EXACTLLY the smae as the current lineup, except for a different magenta ink..... You CANT put the new ink in the older models, epson screws everybody AGAIN!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128043\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yup. An optional 'technician installed' spectro. Ummm...  

I use printshield on all my prints so the gloss enhancer cart will probably go stale on me. The driver defaults to it alot but I only used it once in econo mode by mistake.
I want to try it on pictorico glossy film though. Maybe a good enhancement there.

If Epson stumbles on their next release HP has a very good chance of taking over the fine art printing buisness!
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Christopher
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2007, 04:44:08 PM »
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Yup. An optional 'technician installed' spectro. Ummm...  

I use printshield on all my prints so the gloss enhancer cart will probably go stale on me. The driver defaults to it alot but I only used it once in econo mode by mistake.
I want to try it on pictorico glossy film though. Maybe a good enhancement there.

If Epson stumbles on their next release HP has a very good chance of taking over the fine art printing buisness!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128048\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If they let you put in BK and PK at the same time and it works without a lot of ink waste, than it will be great. Sorry but HP messed up bad with the Z series ....
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rdonson
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2007, 05:19:32 PM »
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If they let you put in BK and PK at the same time and it works without a lot of ink waste, than it will be great. Sorry but HP messed up bad with the Z series ....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128122\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm not following... how did HP mess up with PK and MK??
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Ron
Christopher
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2007, 08:21:29 PM »
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I'm not following... how did HP mess up with PK and MK??
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128129\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

PK and MK was on the x800 series on Epson. You are right PK and MK are probably the only two things HP did not mess up...
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Roscolo
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2007, 11:44:48 PM »
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Epson didn't lose my business because of PK and MK. Epson lost my business because of clogs, clogs, and more...clogs. And non replaceable printheads. And terrible tech support.

Did I mention clogs? It almost didn't matter how good the prints were, because every couple of days one would lose a print to banding and clogging. And then spend time running cleaning cycles and praying through every big print that the print wasn't ruined by banding / clogging.

If Epson can fix the cloggy probs and the tech support issues, I may give them another shot in a few years, but they really shouldn't hold their breath. Fool me once, fool me twice...you know the story.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2007, 04:16:22 AM »
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The two versions of this new range: CMYKCMYK version and the 8 ink version suggests there are only 8 heads and a PK>MK>PK ink switch like the 3800. This switch on the 3800 takes 3 ML on average. Say 70 switches for one 220 ml cart (it probably has bigger carts). 3 minutes on the MK>PK switch, you do not want matte ink on gloss paper. I also wonder whether there still are the 180 nozzles per channel on the heads like there were on the 10000-10600-9800 models or 360 nozzles as announced for new heads in development some time ago. Speed depends much on that. I doubt that they introduce nozzle replacement as found in HP and Canon models, the nozzle price is just too high on the piëzo heads.

If all the possible cons mentioned here are not taken out I'm not interested, whether there is an optional spectro aboard or not. I wonder too whether they will have calibration on the models that do not have a spectro implanted, I find the calibration much more interesting on the HP models than the profiling part. The B9180 and Canon's 5100-6100 may well be what users actually need in RGB profiled printer color management. Printer profiles delivered by the printer manufacturer + third party paper manufacturers combined with a calibration feature should cover 90% of normal users needs and the remaining 10% usually can only be covered by a RIP that allows the creations of extra media/ink settings.

Ernst Dinkla

www.pigment-print.com
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2007, 04:29:20 AM »
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... I also wonder whether there still are the 180 nozzles per channel on the heads like there were on the 10000-10600-9800 models or 360 nozzles as announced for new heads in development some time ago. [{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The info I saw at the end of May said "360 nozzles per ink, 9 lines on 1 inch wide head for nine inks" note the '9 lines' suggesting the 3800 approach

The original SCP release has been found in Google's cache :-) - not much extra info, but they did use a picture of a 10600 in the corner (well if it is the new printer, they must have decided to go for a 'classic' look ;-)

I also had a comment suggesting that next Tuesday should see some news (this was the date suggested to me back in May)

As ever I've put all the snippets of info on the [a href=\"http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/printers/epson-wide-format.html]"rumours page"[/url] :-)
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NikosR
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2007, 07:41:27 AM »
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Epson UK seem to have announced the new printers (although there's nothing yet on their site, strange...) if you believe the info given below:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=18263

No word about spectro option, co-existence of M/G K inks or backward compatibility of the new inkset (seems only difference is in the magenta inks) with the recent 3800.

Also no word about the rumored 64" printer.

Also strange seems that they mention pressurised cartridges for the 2 larger ones but not for the 4880. I believe the 3800 has pressurised cartridges.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 08:02:59 AM by NikosR » Logged

Nikos
digitaldog
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2007, 09:00:00 AM »
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the printers are EXACTLLY the smae as the current lineup, except for a different magenta ink..... You CANT put the new ink in the older models, epson screws everybody AGAIN!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128043\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You don't know that as a fact so before you go slamming Eposn, based on all things a rumor, you might want to considering holding back the flames.
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Andrew Rodney
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John R Smith
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2007, 09:17:33 AM »
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Well, the photo of the 4880 with the press release looks exactly the same pretty much as the 4800, and we can clearly see just eight installed cartridges through the translucent covers. Which would mean that you still have to swap MK and PK. The new magenta inks will be usable in the new models only, I should imagine, because the drivers (or RIP) will have to be different to suit. All of which will leave the 3800 (which many of us thought would be a model for the future) curiously out on a limb . . .

John
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NikosR
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2007, 09:29:35 AM »
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Well, the photo of the 4880 with the press release looks exactly the same pretty much as the 4800, and we can clearly see just eight installed cartridges through the translucent covers. Which would mean that you still have to swap MK and PK. The new magenta inks will be usable in the new models only, I should imagine, because the drivers (or RIP) will have to be different to suit. All of which will leave the 3800 (which many of us thought would be a model for the future) curiously out on a limb . . .

John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128616\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm pretty sure the photos are not part of the press release but photoblogger has added pictures of the old machines just to enhance their page...
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Nikos
NikosR
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2007, 09:31:26 AM »
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You don't know that as a fact so before you go slamming Eposn, based on all things a rumor, you might want to considering holding back the flames.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128615\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If we take the UK press release at face value, we can be pretty sure of at least 3 important changes:

1. Different ink set (vivid magentas)
2. Different heads
3. Different dithering engines (firmware)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 09:32:14 AM by NikosR » Logged

Nikos
digitaldog
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2007, 11:08:50 AM »
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If we take the UK press release at face value, we can be pretty sure of at least 3 important changes:

I would suggest you not take it at face value!

At such a point in time when NDA's are up, products are announced, we can talk again. But I find it frustrating the people read rumors, then get all pissed off about what they read as if its written in stone. Meanwhile, those that know, keep quiet. Those that don't know make up stuff and should be ignored.

Of course, if you want to read fiction, even a mix of fact and fiction and whip yourself into a frenzy, knock yourself out.
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Andrew Rodney
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alfin
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2007, 11:12:47 AM »
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It's on the Epson site in Germany:

http://www.epson-presse.de/index.php?id=196&no_cache=1
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Lars Mollerstrom
NikosR
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2007, 11:13:44 AM »
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I would suggest you not take it at face value!

At such a point in time when NDA's are up, products are announced, we can talk again. But I find it frustrating the people read rumors, then get all pissed off about what they read as if its written in stone. Meanwhile, those that know, keep quiet. Those that don't know make up stuff and should be ignored.

Of course, if you want to read fiction, even a mix of fact and fiction and whip yourself into a frenzy, knock yourself out.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128647\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Do you have reason to believe that the aforementioned press release in not genuine and, thus, a rumour? Could you please share this reason with us?

The press release being a fake, and you being certain about this, would be the only way to justify your words (not your attitude).
« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 11:15:17 AM by NikosR » Logged

Nikos
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2007, 11:24:53 AM »
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If we take the UK press release at face value, we can be pretty sure of at least 3 important changes:

1. Different ink set (vivid magentas)
2. Different heads
3. Different dithering engines (firmware)
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Remember that in the change from 9600>9800 UC>K3 there was also a change on the magentas, the magenta shifted to red and the ink became more transparent. Wonder whether it is gone back this time.

The 3800 still has 180 nozzles per head and in the photographyblog URL I see no mention of the nozzle quantity in the three x880 models nor any claim of more speed. It wouldn't surprise me if the 360 nozzles per head is a feature for the 64"model to face the competition's iPF9000 and Z6100 speed. Whether that is enough is the question.

The 3800 already had improved dithering and I guess it is a replica of that but development goes on of course.
[a href=\"http://www.inkjetart.com/3800/index.html]http://www.inkjetart.com/3800/index.html[/url] shows the difference between the 3800 and 4800 dithering. Shifting the use of the droplet range to the smaller droplets and so it is closer to the way the HP's and Canon's lay down ink.

I doubt it is the 4880 we see there. But a twin cart like the old 5000 is possible too. In that case if there's a black ink switch mechanism you can be certain that half the MK ink can be thrown away after the PK side if empty.  Unlikely that Epson will spit in the customer's face again so better forget that suggestion.

I see something about improved paper cutting sequence. Doesn't sound like a rotary cutter (hardware improvement) but more like a straight cut from left to right. The rotary cutters of the competition do their work up to the 300 grams paper and last longer than what we have been used to on Epsons.

Then the prices: the pound is now 2$ but US prices will be lower.  Quoted price without VAT is like today's UK Z3100 streetprice without VAT. The Canon 44" is cheaper.

Edit,

The German information is 99% like Photographyblog with one exception I see 8 cartridges mentioned on the German page and 9 on the Photographyblog. Whether that means on the printer itself and then no black ink switch ?  I start to wonder whether not only the magenta is back to the 9600 hue but the total inkset is like the 4000 on all machines, dropping the extra grey ink of the K3 range. I know some happy 4000 users so why not. ? Many UC users expected that solution before the 9800 etc appeared.


Ernst Dinkla

try:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 11:39:49 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
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