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Author Topic: New wide Epson printers + spectro option  (Read 54674 times)
digitaldog
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« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2007, 11:28:34 AM »
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Do you have reason to believe that the aforementioned press release in not genuine and, thus, a rumour? Could you please share this reason with us?

The press release being a fake, and you being certain about this, would be the only way to justify your words (not your attitude).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128650\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No, I can't without getting into trouble which I don't plan to do.
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Andrew Rodney
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NikosR
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« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2007, 11:34:27 AM »
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No, I can't without getting into trouble which I don't plan to do.
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Let me get this right. You 're implying that this press release is not genuine but you can't support it due to NDA?

Or is it just that the press release might not be everything that Epson is planning to announce and there's more coming (like the 64" for example)?

If the press release is the genuine thing (regardless if there's more coming at some point), I think everybody is entitled to comment on it without being accused of feeding on rumours.
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Nikos
digitaldog
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« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2007, 11:42:28 AM »
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Let me get this right. You 're implying that this press release is not genuine but you can't support it due to NDA?

Or is it just that the press release might not be everything that Epson is planning to announce and there's more coming (like the 64" for example)?

If the press release is the genuine thing (regardless if there's more coming at some point), I think everybody is entitled to comment on it without being accused of feeding on rumours.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128659\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I said nothing other than people who read stuff, get pissed off when the validity of the info is based on rumor should calm the frig down.
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Andrew Rodney
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NikosR
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« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2007, 11:48:03 AM »
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BTW, there is a new press release on the same site announcing the 11880 64 incher.

http://www.photographyblog.com/index.php/w...format_printer/

Here is where the 360dpi native density is announced. Also there's mention of automatic matte/glossy black ink swap.

Any reasonable person would assume that the 3 smaller printers don't have either of these features.

So we have: 3800 (auto swap), 4880 7880 9880 (no auto swap), 11880 (360dpi heads, auto swap).

Sounds a bit weird...
« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 11:52:22 AM by NikosR » Logged

Nikos
chris anderson
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« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2007, 01:46:12 PM »
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You don't know that as a fact so before you go slamming Eposn, based on all things a rumor, you might want to considering holding back the flames.
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settle down chief, sorry if you didn't like the words I used.
I am repeating what two of the bigger software rip companies have told me. They "should" be in the know..... Guess we will see soon enough
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2007, 02:52:28 PM »
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BTW, there is a new press release on the same site announcing the 11880 64 incher.

http://www.photographyblog.com/index.php/w...format_printer/

Here is where the 360dpi native density is announced. Also there's mention of automatic matte/glossy black ink swap.

Any reasonable person would assume that the 3 smaller printers don't have either of these features.

So we have: 3800 (auto swap), 4880 7880 9880 (no auto swap), 11880 (360dpi heads, auto swap).

Sounds a bit weird...
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Which confirms my guess that the 11880 has the new 360 nozzles per channel head and most likely the smaller models including the 9880 do not have it, otherwise they should have mentioned it on the German site.

Edit:

>>
[a href=\"http://www.epson-presse.de/index.php?id=196&no_cache=1&backPID=196&tt_news=4395]http://www.epson-presse.de/index.php?id=19...96&tt_news=4395[/url]

http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=1045

The German page shows the 11880 head with 5 banks and 9 channels of 360 nozzles each. That allows active matt + gloss black on the 11880, no need for the 3800 switch, no ink loss either. Wonder why they didn't add the extra nozzle row for gloss enhancer, the gloss must be good enough in their opinion.

The Australian page confirms active gloss and matt black: nine active cartridges.

More on the other models:

http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=1044
http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=1046

PK/MK change only with the cartridge possible I'm afraid. <<


The basics are that nozzles in piëzo technology are more expensive and harder to multiply over the years of development than the simple thermohead concept is, especially when the last are made with silicon chip manufacturing technology. The advantage of variable droplet sizes that are easier to create in piëzoheads than in thermo heads is no longer playing a role as new dithering algorithms fare well with smaller single sized droplets. I predicted some time ago that it was not likely that Epson would go for more ink channels and also that it would be difficult for Epson to increase the nozzle quantity per channel as fast as the thermo head manufacturers can. What is left is the droplet creation frequency but thermo heads have made fast progress there and it is hard to compensate 3x to 6x the number of nozzles with just frequency.

Remains the fact that Epson has access to or creates very good inks.


Ernst Dinkla

try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 05:39:06 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
jule
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« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2007, 06:39:21 PM »
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Epson Australia site link -

http://www.epson.com.au/prographics/newpro...s/index.asp#800  

Julie
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Christopher
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« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2007, 07:39:13 PM »
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I really don't see the problem, NDA ...

It's pretty simple...

New Epson printers only have 8 inks. That's it there will be no PK, MK change.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2007, 08:13:26 PM »
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I really don't see the problem, NDA ...

It's pretty simple...

New Epson printers only have 8 inks. That's it there will be no PK, MK change.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128725\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I looked at the Epson Australia page. If they don't provide quite seemless MK/PK swapping in these new models I think they would have a serious commercial problem on their hands. Only studios needing and running several printers at a time would be interested. Did it occur to anyone, however, that if the new model has a reformulated magenta, perhaps the idea is that they will equip these new models with one magenta instead of two, and use the extra slot for the other black?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 08:13:49 PM by MarkDS » Logged

Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2007, 09:18:45 PM »
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Did it occur to anyone, however, that if the new model has a reformulated magenta, perhaps the idea is that they will equip these new models with one magenta instead of two, and use the extra slot for the other black?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128734\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, that is indeed possible, but I would think that they'd advertise this more clearly if this were the case...

Let's hope that your guess is correct.

Regards,
Bernard
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2007, 07:00:43 AM »
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Well, that is indeed possible, but I would think that they'd advertise this more clearly if this were the case...

Let's hope that your guess is correct.

Regards,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128751\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes indeed "let's hope". As for advertising, Epson America has yet to say anything on their US website about these models. It is obviously early days. However, if the 4800 replacement does not resolve the ink switching problem I shall not be buying one.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
John R Smith
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« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2007, 09:40:42 AM »
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Well, somehow we all missed this, but our very own MR has actually seen the new printers (see in the What's New section of LL). I quote -

"Epson has several new printers coming, and showed them to a group of journalists in New York last week, which I attended. These were not supposed to be announced until August 13th – lost of time to write-up a full report.

Well, as happens all too frequently these days, someone at Epson (their UK office, this time) jumped the gun and pre-announced. You can read all about the new printers on PhotographyBlog. (Canon's pre-release specialists are their French subsidiary. What is it with European subs and secrets?)

I may still write something about the new printers, but in the meantime I'll simply add that the new Vivid Megenta ink really does visibly increase colour saturation and dMax, based on sample prints which I was shown.

As to whether it's worth upgrading from a 4800, 7800, 9800 to a 4880, 7880, 9880, I'd have to say no. And as for what's coming next from Epson, I will respect the NDA that I've signed and will have more to say on that next month."


It seems that if MR is saying "don't bother upgrading", then it is pretty certain that the smaller printers do not support live MK/PK swapping, as many of us have already inferred. A strange product upgrade from Epson which seems to ignore the clear challenges in the past year from HP and Canon.

John
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« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2007, 10:24:41 AM »
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....However, if the 4800 replacement does not resolve the ink switching problem I shall not be buying one.
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I'm not buying another one either...
I hope Andrew Rodney is correct and this leaked info is wrong.
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2007, 10:28:32 AM »
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I was wondering what had happened about the optional embedded Spectro I'd heard mentioned - I was quite prepared to set it aside in the old rumours collection, but the comment at the end of MR's piece about NDAs makes me wonder ;-)

As to his other comments about European 'release dates' I heard July 17th mentioned as an 'official date' back in May...

Anyway, I'll keep updating the 11880 info page with any more snippets I get sent ;-)
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Scho
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« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2007, 12:02:26 PM »
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Epson Australia site link -

http://www.epson.com.au/prographics/newpro...s/index.asp#800 

Julie
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I see variable drop size technology, but no mention of minimum drop size.  Are we finally going to have a large format printer with 1.5 pl capability or are these still 3.5 pl machines?
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2007, 03:19:22 PM »
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I see variable drop size technology, but no mention of minimum drop size.  Are we finally going to have a large format printer with 1.5 pl capability or are these still 3.5 pl machines?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128860\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Minimum droplet size will stay at 3.5 picoliter and is unlikely to get smaller on wide format printers. To cover the same square feet per hour with 1.5 picoliter droplets will ask for more nozzles or higher head frequencies. 2,25X  There's a trend to use the available minimum droplet size in preference to the larger droplet sizes (or to make the larger droplet sizes smaller) to get smoother results but that's it. The HP models use only 4 or 6 picoliter, size is fixed per ink channel and the quality is still good.

Ernst Dinkla

www.pigment-print.com
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Scho
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« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2007, 03:41:31 PM »
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Minimum droplet size will stay at 3.5 picoliter and is unlikely to get smaller on wide format printers. To cover the same square feet per hour with 1.5 picoliter droplets will ask for more nozzles or higher head frequencies. 2,25X  There's a trend to use the available minimum droplet size in preference to the larger droplet sizes (or to make the larger droplet sizes smaller) to get smoother results but that's it. The HP models use only 4 or 6 picoliter, size is fixed per ink channel and the quality is still good.

Ernst Dinkla

www.pigment-print.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128887\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Too bad.  I was hoping for at least a 17 inch model with 1.5 pl drops to use with Paul's 3-MK workflow to make 16x20 inch prints.  I'm using 3-MK with an Epson 1800 desktop and the 11x14 inch Eboni prints are outstanding.  Best B&W I've seen from any process.  I've tried larger prints with the Epson 4000, but the 3.5 pl drop just doesn't cut it for this printing process.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2007, 02:58:54 AM »
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Too bad.  I was hoping for at least a 17 inch model with 1.5 pl drops to use with Paul's 3-MK workflow to make 16x20 inch prints.  I'm using 3-MK with an Epson 1800 desktop and the 11x14 inch Eboni prints are outstanding.  Best B&W I've seen from any process.  I've tried larger prints with the Epson 4000, but the 3.5 pl drop just doesn't cut it for this printing process.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128891\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Black Only needs many nozzles (more heads) and the smallest droplets and the R800 + R1800 are then a good choice. Something I suggested about 3 years ago on the Digital B&W list. You will need another quad inkset on the larger machines and the available 3-4 grey inks in some standard inksets + the new "screening" of the droplets makes excellent prints. Grey profiles made with QTR improve the tonal range. There's quite a difference between a 4000 and a 3800 in print quality with the standard inks.

Ernst Dinkla

www.pigment-print.com
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NikosR
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« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2007, 03:15:06 AM »
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There's quite a difference between a 4000 and a 3800 in print quality with the standard inks.

Ernst Dinkla

www.pigment-print.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128967\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


There's even a perceptible difference between 3800 and 4800 due to improved dithering, especially in HS and lower dpi printing. I expect that the x880 will be similar to the 3800 in that respect (improved inks not withstanding).
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Nikos
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« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2007, 05:49:56 AM »
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Epson's Light Light Black and HP's gloss optimizer are for all intents and purposes almost the same.


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Interesting rumor and it does have the effect of freezing printer purchases in favor of waiting for the next gen Epson.

Still, until there are real details its just fun speculation.

I see no mention of a gloss enhancer which is a feature I really like on my HP Z3100
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