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Author Topic: Home Sweet Home @ 50 below zero  (Read 246098 times)
Derry
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« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2009, 11:58:25 AM »
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I just have read and enjoyed all the photos and recent videos of this amazing location on the planet about peoples lives and their struggle to live,, sure makes ya think about our daily life and the minimal task we have to do to survive,,

I have forwarded your stories location to many others and fellow photographers,,

thank you for your time and effort contributing such a piece of life for others to read and think about,,

Derry
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bradleygibson
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« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2009, 10:47:06 PM »
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Wow, Majik,

Your stories really are inspiring.  Reading them inspires me even more to get out and experience other peoples, other cultures and other ways of life.  It is already a passion of mine, but your stories are really special.

Thank you for taking the time to share them!  You are a real treat.

Best regards,
Brad

P.S. Never, ever, have I seen a frozen caribou in place!  I've experienced -60C (-75F) and I can understand how it could happen, but wow--that is incredible.
P.P.S.  The steaming hood story was hilarious!!

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Steve Ralser
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« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2009, 08:11:06 PM »
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Fascinating - one of the best posts I've looked through here on LL. - even though I just skimmed through it

thanks

Steve
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« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2009, 09:34:52 AM »
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I read this multi year epic thread with great interest partly due to content and partly due to its theme being similar to what I hear where I live. I am surrounded by Indian Nations and have worked for these Nations as a consultant from time to time.

The constant theme I mean is wishing to pick elements from both white society and also Aboriginal combining them into a mosaic which I call 'The New Old Way'. Here the OP is chafing and objecting to eastern liberal forces interfering with his tribe's (OK adopted tribe's) ancient food gathering ceremonies. Those ceremonies, the camp on the western edge of what's now AK, the task assignment based on rank and tribal place, the excitement when whales appear, the sense of accomplishment and gratitude when one is killed (received) all bind the tribe into a tribe. It's not really a food thing. If the tribe were to abandon the yearly ceremony and instead get calorically adequate substitutes from, say, some government program, it'd destroy the tribe in a generation. This because the rationale for being a tribe is being able to accomplish the tasks which demand the formation of a tribe. Remove the tasks and the tribe dissipates.

Yet it's a way of life which is doomed. The OP seems to think if he convinces PETA and other liberal groups that there are many whales, his tribe will be again free to take as many as it needs. It won't happen even if he presents iron clad proof that there is an abundance of right whales. The reason is that the easterners are aesthetically opposed to the killing of a whale because to them, the whale has assumed a holy spirit. To the eastern liberal PETA member, the whale is a wise being living in peace and harmony with the earth and some New Age Spirit impossible to explain to those who recognize that this role is a more accurate description of the Eskimo hunter than the hunted whale.

The Eskimo position s further weakened by their reliance on modernism when it, within the general lifestyle, makes sense. If you examine the pictures of the ice camp, you'll see most or maybe all cooking done in metal appliances hardly within the reach of native technology. The same goes for clothes made of cotton - a semi tropical plant which needs processing on a loom (again, non-native technology). I have seen pickup trucks and snowmobiles in the same sub thread as the story where the OP objected to an oil exploration offshore. The interesting story of the two Natives who fell through the ice included the one who remained in the water for hours being med-evac'd out. Surely, had he relied on traditional Eskimo medical tech he would have died.

I don't know the future of these Aboriginal groups who wish to hold on to elements of their past while utilizing elements of modern technology. I suspect, though, that their ways will be eroded until nothing is left.

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Plekto
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« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2009, 04:07:15 PM »
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That may be true, but one very important thing is that at the very least, he's creating a beautiful documentary of this vanishing way of life.
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« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2009, 05:48:08 PM »
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I lived aboard sailboats for 7 years sailing both the Pacific and Atlantic. My last trip was 2002-2003 in the Atlantic where I was either at sea or anchored somewhere (mostly).

I got to speaking to shrimp fishermen anchored around me who sounded just like the OP here. Their 'right' to shrimp is being removed from them by environmentalists / governments. The reason is that their way of catching shrimp is enormously destructive to the sea bed. They also throw away much of what they catch in their nets because only a small percentage is shrimp. The rest are either inedible species or species they don't know how to process and market or which they catch in too small a quantity to make practical.

They too go on and on about how they come from a long line of ancestral shrimp catchers. Their main anger now is split between shrimp farmers (mostly Chinese) and the government. Shrimp farming isn't destructive to the environment and is open to them too but they prefer the 'old ways'. Well, the world won't tolerate the old ways for some. It's closing in. Yes, I think the sitting on the ice eating raw reindeers is very picturesque but I know that it's not going to be the same for long. The day of the hunter gatherer, be it the Snakes, the Blackfeet, the Apache, the Zulu, the Eskimo or the US southern shrimper is over.

Greenpeace lies? Of course it does. It's very existence is proof of a huge lie but so what? It's enormously powerful and now has allies controlling the US Congress and the White House.

OP - take those pix. They are recording a way of life not long to continue.
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DavidHoptman
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« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2009, 03:38:32 AM »
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Thanks so much for sharing your incredible life's experience. The images and your explanation about you  processing film and dealing with frozen fingers and iced up camera's is truly fantastic. You have done a remarkable job in opening up my eyes to how native people can survive out on the ice and how a person like yourself is able to pull off the same life style for so many years and live to tell about it is truly amazing. The work you have done there is truly important and I hope for many years more you will be able to keep it up. You are a gift to us all.
 ENJOY THE JOURNEY'S TO COME BEST DAVID HOPTMAN
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David Hoptman
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Tim Gray
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« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2009, 10:31:00 AM »
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Thanks so much for this fascinating story - I always look forward to your updates!
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2009, 03:56:01 PM »
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Quote from: Tim Gray
Thanks so much for this fascinating story - I always look forward to your updates!
I do, too. Keep 'em coming!
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-Eric Myrvaagnes

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bellimages
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« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2009, 11:29:56 AM »
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Quote from: Kenneth Sky
Up till yesterday I saw the images but today that's all I'm getting as well.
I see the images fine. VERY interesting story. But .... I can think of other places that I'd prefer to photograph. It's great that you went there, and told the story here. Thanks:)
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Jan Bell, Owner/Photographer, Bell Images
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"Making the simple complicated is commonplace, Making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity."  –  Charles Mingus
Jeremy Payne
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« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2009, 04:13:35 PM »
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Quote from: Majik_Imaje
This year - there was a 'first ever' event that is indeed worthy of the RECORD BOOKS.

 

A 9 year old 4th grader - Paul Patkotak - Kappii (harpoon) his first whale !! 32 foot 7 inches.

His uncle Qulliuq Pebley, is captain of the Panigeo crew.

 

Children learn 'incredible' skills at very early age(s) !! This is further proof of children excelling in the lifestyle of the Inupiaq culture.

 

How about that !! If it wasn't published in the news paper - I sincerly doubt that some would ever believe it !!

Makes me cry.  How do you think the whale's friends and family felt?  Whales are special.  Don't kill them, please.
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Jeremy Payne
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« Reply #51 on: November 15, 2009, 08:17:47 PM »
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Pointing fingers at other people for other wrongs in other places and other times is not relevant.

You're free to feel the way you do and to say what you want ... and so am I ...  

 ... and I say that purposefully killing high-order mammals like whales is pretty damn close to murder ... not quite, but pretty damn close.

Oh well.
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Jeremy Payne
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« Reply #52 on: November 15, 2009, 08:41:13 PM »
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Quote from: Majik_Imaje
a population pool of over 200,000

There are not 200,000 bowhead whales alive in the ocean today ... not even close ...

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Jeremy Payne
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« Reply #53 on: November 15, 2009, 09:47:56 PM »
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Bowhead population estimates:

Bering-Chukchi- Beaufort Seas stock:    8,200 - 13,500 (95% confidence interval in 2001)

http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/estimate.htm

From the actual study:

The 2001 survey of western Arctic (Bering, Chukchi, and Beaufort seas) bowhead whales was conducted from 5 April to 7 June near Barrow, Alaska. Visual observers recorded a total of 3,295 "new" (not seen before) and 532 "conditional" (possibly seen before) whales in 1,130 h of watch effort, including 121 new calves (3.7% of the new whales). Concurrent with the visual survey, passive acoustic surveillance was conducted almost continuously from 16 April to 31 May, resulting in 27,023 locations of vocalizing bowhead whales. The estimated number of whales within 4 km of the perch (N4) was 7,025 (SE = 1,068). The estimated proportion of the whales within 4 km of the perch (P4) was 0.862 (SE = 0.044, computed by a moving blocks bootstrap). Combining these, the abundance estimate (N4/P4) for 2001 is 10,470 (SE = 1, 351) with a 95% confidence interval of 8, 100–13, 500. The estimated annual rate of increase (ROI) of the population from 1978 to 2001 is 3.4% (95% CI 1.7%-5%). Reports from hunters and results of an aerial survey in June 2001 indicate whales continued to pass Barrow after the survey had ended. In 2001 51% (572 h) of the watch was scored as occurring during "fair-excellent" visibility conditions, somewhat lower than the average for all surveys since 1978. Sea ice in the leads and fog were the principle environmental factors affecting visibility for all years.

I understand that the indigenous people who hunt these whales do so in a "managed" fashion.  I don't care.  I'm not worried that your friends and going to kill all the bowhead ... I just think killing whales is wrong - according to my ethical standards.  You can choose to have a different code, but that doesn't mean I can't have mine.

One question ... If tradition is so important, why do you use gasoline powered motors?
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Jeremy Payne
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« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2009, 10:57:05 PM »
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Quote from: Majik_Imaje
I was present @ the census in 1981 -  I was an eye witness to how this is accomplished !! it is nothing short of a joke !!   6 people spent one month

It was 2001 and they were there for 3 months.

By the way ... it isn't from 'the internet' ... it is from the Journal of Marine Mammal Science.

Want a hard copy of the study?  

Journal: Marine mammal science  
ISSN 0824-0469   CODEN MMSCEC  

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Jeremy Payne
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« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2009, 10:59:41 PM »
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Quote from: Majik_Imaje
I have witnessed time and time again. over a 30 year span - how the white man lies - distorts the actual truth EVERYTIME they can !!

Dude ... lose the ignorant bigotry ... ok?

Really ugly stuff.
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Jeremy Payne
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« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2009, 11:27:03 PM »
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Quote from: Majik_Imaje
Polar Bears do not need sea ice to survive !!!  that is total nonsense !!!

Climate Change Impacts
Sea ice is the predominant feature of the arctic seas, and global warming caused by greenhouse gas emisions
is expected to cause a reduction in its thickness and extent. Arctic shelf seas are among the most productive
in the world and large numbers of organisms from all trophic levels can be found along ice edges, leads and
polynyas where the interaction of ice, sunlight and water currents is greatest (Sakshaug et al. 1994).
Reductions in the extent of sea ice will undermine the productivity of the northern oceans. Of concern as the
ice melts is the loss of ice-dependant prey species for predators like the polar bear (Tynan and DeMaster, 1997).
The seasonal cycle of melting ice creates vertical mixing in the ocean column and allows nutrient-rich water
to reach the surface. Colony-building diatoms and blue-green algae flourish on the underside of ice floes. In
the spring, as sunlight returns to the northern high latitudes and the pack ice retreats north, these algae seed
a bloom of phytoplankton in the layer of nutrient-rich brackish water that forms on top of the cold, dense sea
water below. Zooplankton and small crustaceans, such as copepods, amphipods and krill, feed on this bloom.
These in turn, serve as food for fish (particularly arctic cod), seals, seabirds, and other predators. But it is in
the open water of leads and polynyas where productivity is highest and top level predators—like the polar
bear—feast on the abundance of ice-dependent species assembled there (Sakshaug et al. 1994). Due to its
position at the top of the arctic marine food web, the polar bear is an ideal species through which to monitor
the cumulative effects of climate change in the arctic marine ecosystem (Stirling and Derocher 1993).
Indigenous communities along the coast of the northern Bering and Chukchi Seas have noticed substantial
changes in the marine ecosystem since the 1970s. Alaska Natives, for example, have experienced warmer
winters, early spring break-up, and thinner than usual ice (Pungowiyi 2000). This traditional knowledge echoes
the scientific evidence. Throughout the 20th century, the following scientific observations have been made:

• Although not geographically uniform, air temperatures in the Arctic have increased by about 5°C
over the last 100 years (Serreze et al. 2000).
• Since 1972, a 10 per cent decrease in snow-cover extent across the northern hemisphere has been
observed (Brown, 2000).
• Between 1978 and 1996, arctic sea ice extent decreased by approximately 3 per cent per decade
(Parkinson et al. 1999);

Figure 2 illustrates that spring sea ice extent in the Nordic Sea has been
reduced by 33 per cent over the past 135 years (Vinje 2001).

Sea ice is critical to the survival of polar bears. It is the platform from which they hunt because it is there
that their primary prey—ringed and bearded seal—are found. Ringed and bearded seals are in turn dependent
on sea ice as it is there that they rest, give birth and raise their pups. Regional variation in the seasonal distribution
and extent of sea ice has been shown to have significant effects on the survival of seals and consequently
on polar bears (Stirling 1997).

http://www.worldwildlife.org/climate/Publi...aryitem4927.pdf
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dmerger
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« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2009, 05:20:55 PM »
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Majik, your racist comments are offensive.  I’ve noticed your racist comments several times before.  I hope not to read more of them.

In my view, this forum is not the appropriate place to discuss the ethics of whale hunting, pro or con, or the other unrelated topics that Majik spewed forth.  In any event, Jeremy, I trust that you now realize the futility of trying to have a rational discussion with Majik.  

The last few posts bring to mind a rather humorous quote:

“Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.”

Dean Erger
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Dean Erger
Craddosk
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« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2009, 07:04:10 PM »
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Quote from: Majik_Imaje
Please EXPLAIN - how polar bears SURVIVE in Churchill (on land)  

Please EXPLAIN - how polar bears SURVIVE IN zoos around the world ??


Quite simple Majik. Polar bears over-summer on land. They live on their fat reserves and what small dietary supplements they gather from small mammals and small shrubs and grasses. If you will examine the geography of Churchill, MB., you will notice that is borders on Hudson's Bay, a prime area for hunting by polar bears. When this area freezes over, this is when the polar bears are best able to gather their primary food, seals. Polar bears surviving on land is not even restricted to Churchill, rather, it is evident across the entire Arctic. In addition, polar bears are able to survive in zoos simply because they are constantly fed, not that they require sea ice to survive beyond its use as a hunting platform. If you remove the sea ice, the polar bears cannot feed, and thus must be fed, which is what is occurring in zoos.

Furthermore, to attempt to brush apart peer reviewed studies in the scientific literature which clearly state that numerous Arctic animals are perishing as a result of pollution and overhunting is simply demonstrating your irrationality to understand what it occurring. Scientific literature, that is in no part biased by the government, clearly demonstrates that polar bear populations are declining. There is no if, ands, or buts. However, many Inuit individuals wish for hunt quotas to be reduced, or even eliminated completely. Why? The sole reason I can understand is greed.

You claim that all other individuals are greedy. Rather, if you examine the situation, a polar bear hide goes for thousands of dollars. Why else would the destruction of this animal serve a purpose? Other food sources are even more plentiful, and less dangerous and difficult to kill.

In addition, your claims that from 2003-2009 the sea ice was at its farthest expanse. Rather, I feel that your lying, simple and outright. Scientific literature, satellite photos, and individuals have documented the extreme opposite of what you claim. Further substantiated this is the fact that ships (not submarines) are now able to traverse through what is known as the Northwest passage. This was not possible in the past because of the expanse of multi-year sea ice. Now, it is possible. What does that unequivocally demonstrate? That the sea ice is receding.

Well I enjoy the pictures that you post, your attempt to try and persuade everyone here to follow your beliefs is quite useless. Your claims are clearly unsubstantiated, and your attempt to push away from that by arguing about what is considered "murder" by some demonstrate this clearly. If you would keep to the simple purpose that this threat started with, which was to demonstrate life in the Arctic through pictures, that would be delightful.
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Craddosk
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« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2009, 10:54:11 PM »
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Well, the second link you gave me and told me to read puts me straight through to a book. That's nice, but hardly a peer reviewed journal. Rather, a book is considered (in scientific literature) to be an individuals opinion.

Secondly, the first link you posted, the "Christian Science Monitor" displays an editorial article. That is merely someone's choice of facts. Funny enough though, here are two things that directly contradict your earlier statements:
"Polar bears often travel on ice floes, and they can swim "easily" in open water for 60 miles, according to Derocher. "Bears will often hang out on glacier ice or large pieces of multiyear ice"  - Page 2
     - But I thought polar bears didn't require ice to survive (sarcasm)

"But Derocher still maintains the polar bear is threatened, even if its numbers aren't down all across the circumpolar region where the giant bears live and hunt (). Of the 13 polar bear populations in Canada, at least two are in decline, Derocher says. The number of polar bears along the western edge of Hudson Bay, for example, has fallen by 22 percent over the last decade." - Page 2
    -Thus, polar bears are being attacked on two fronts, both from the hunting side and the climate change side. This causes even further decreases in their number

In addition, the editorial relies heavily on the fact that climate change exists. But according to you, global change is instead an attempt at global governance. So, in fact, the article you provide aids in contradicting yourself.

While the Christian Science Monitor is considered an academic journal, editorials in them are not peer reviewed and are instead opinion pieces. So, your own source directly contradicts your own sayings, including this editorial piece. If you would please cite your sources that state ocean ice is relatively unchanged, that would be appreciated. I would prefer recent sources, from 2005 and above. This is to see if they are similar to your Christian Science Monitor editorial, which states that sea ice is decreasing.

Hate to tell you this, but Dr. Andrew Derocher, who has been in the Arctic for over 20 years, has stated in person, in lectures, and in scientific journals that climate change is occurring, polar bears are in danger, and that Arctic whales are in grave danger from overhunting and pollution. How do I know this? Well, I have frequent, in person discussions with him, and attend some of his classes that he teaches.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 10:56:29 PM by Craddosk » Logged
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