Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Financial Fortress?  (Read 6313 times)
finn mccoull
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« on: July 24, 2007, 02:14:50 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi  All
As a Kiwi (a New Zealander) who is new to on line trading and has recently been keen to buy photographic equipment on this and the Large Format site as well as Ebay, I'm horrified!!
I can't do it!
Not because I haven't got the money, not because I don't use Paypal, not because I want it too cheap - NO, its just because I'm not from the USA.

It takes no more to pack and post to  an international adress than a domestic one!

So, I'm keen to know why this is, have you become a "Financial Fortress'" not heard of the "Global Economy" .

Ah well, never mind, with some deals I've looked at I would even have been prepared to wait until the money was actually in the sellors piggy bank before asking for it to be sent! Am I stupid or what?
I like to think MOST people are basically pretty damn honest.

Sense frustration, well your right!

PS Anyone got a tidy Arcbody kit they are willing to sell to a KIWI?

Finn.
Logged
Chris Sanderson
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1893



« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2007, 07:04:14 AM »
ReplyReply

Blame Canada  
Logged

Christopher Sanderson
The Luminous-Landscape
DaveW
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 32


« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2007, 07:32:11 AM »
ReplyReply

Well, living in Canada I've had no problems buying items from other countries - which is good, since there isn't much to be had buying from other Canadians most of the time!

Currently I've got a lens on route from the US and a tripod on the way from Hong Kong.  

I wonder if the reluctance of some sellers to ship to New Zealand has less to do with shipping costs and more to do with fear of getting 'ripped off'.  I think that for alot of people the perception is that by dealing with an unfamilar country they have less legal protection should the deal go wrong in some way.  Rather than figure out each particular countries' arcane legal system, they simply only deal with countries they are familar with.

Unfortunately, for those of us outside the US, this often sucks.
Logged
BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7761



WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2007, 08:53:09 AM »
ReplyReply

I have faced similar concerns from many ebay sellers as well.

Regards,
Bernard
Logged

A few images online here!
Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12215


« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2007, 10:13:52 AM »
ReplyReply

Well, if an old reactionary may be permitted to voice his feelings, I have an even worse story to tell: my own. I have a deep-seated phobia about revealing any financial details over the web, and as a consequence, I have to go to all manner of bother to find local dealers or travelling friends who can pick things up for me in the UK and bring them back when they come on holiday. I just have this feeling that I will be one of those to experience identity theft and trying to get myself out of that fix in another country is more than I want to consider!

The other thing, is delivery: internet dealers seem to want to use private carriers whilst I prefer dealing with the postal authorities of the country. That way, I can collect from the post office at MY convenience and not have to wait in - in vain. possibly - for some independent carrier to find it worthwhile coming to my part of the sticks to offload the item.

When I was getting my ADSL kit I had at least three aborted deliveries, and that was within the one country. Telefonica, the Spanish telephone service, would not use the post... I lost days waiting for delivery.

But back to the OP: there is also the problem of local customs duty when buying from abroad - those mothers can be rough, too!

Ciao - Rob C
Logged

larryg
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 468



WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2007, 02:43:47 PM »
ReplyReply

From personal experience I have been ripped off by (usually third world?) sellers from outside the US   My fault for being so naive but now I just sell to US and Canada (Even though it usually is Canada's fault)

Nothing more sinister than a close to home purchase/sale eliminates some of the fear of dealing with Ebay.

Another issue, at least to a lessor degree, is the monetary exchange rate.
Logged
BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7761



WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2007, 05:33:09 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
From personal experience I have been ripped off by (usually third world?) sellers from outside the US   My fault for being so naive but now I just sell to US and Canada (Even though it usually is Canada's fault)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129754\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

How did that happen?

I would think that if you wait for the money to arrive before shipping the item not much can happen to you, right? Am I missing something here?

Regards,
Bernard
Logged

A few images online here!
Don Libby
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 724


Iron Creek Photography


WWW
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2007, 05:59:50 PM »
ReplyReply

I’ve had an E-bay account for just a little over 6 months.  I’ve had a PAYPAL account for over a year.  I’ve sold a lot of “stuff” on E-bay and in each one I took payment only via PAYPAL and to confirmed verified addresses.  I never accepted offers of checks or money orders mainly because I’m afraid of them, they can all be counterfeited.   At least with PAYPAL I know as a seller I’m protected and as a buyer as well.  While there’s fraud everywhere there’s better protection via PAYPAL – at least that’s my opinion.

I’ve answered numerous inquires from Ebay buyers as well as folks from this site as to whether or not I’d ship beyond North America and each time I answered yes – for an additional fee (actual shipping expensives) all I cared about was that payment be made by PAYPAL.  

You might be better off opening an account with PAYPAL but then on the other hand you really don’t need an account to make a payment.  Speaking solely from my own personal experience as a seller, my major concern is receiving payment, that’s why I set up the PAYPAY account.  I couldn’t care less where the item is being sent just so long as I know I’ve been properly paid.


don
Logged

Kumar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 652


WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2007, 06:04:04 PM »
ReplyReply

I've bought and sold a few things from/to people in the US. Some of them had them listed for sale in the US and Canada only, but were willing to ship them to me in Japan.

I see people complaining about UPS and Fedex all the time, yet they will insist on using them, rather than USPS, which is pretty fast, inexpensive, trackable and insurable. I have always used Japan Post EMS without any problems, with items being delivered to the US in 4~5 days, excluding weekends and holidays. The forms can be printed and postage paid online at a discount. They also have a pickup service in many areas.

This attitude about not dealing with foreigners is surprising, because almost all Americans are immigrants or the descendants of immigrants. I would have thought they would be more open.

Shipping, financial details, customs are all problems that can be solved easily. Pack well, use Paypal (I haven't tried Google Checkout as yet), give the buyer the choice of shipping method. Customs in any case aren't the responsibility of the seller. And about exchange rates, each person makes the decision whether it's worth it or not.

As for me, I'll ship anywhere - except Nigeria

Kumar
Logged

larryg
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 468



WWW
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2007, 06:04:16 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
How did that happen?

I would think that if you wait for the money to arrive before shipping the item not much can happen to you, right? Am I missing something here?

Regards,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129769\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I purchased an item and sent money to person via Western Union   Never heard from him again nor received the item.  Ebay just said too bad and sent me a list of buyer beware items.

I sold an item and received a bank money order (they overpaid and wanted the difference back in a money order)  you can guess that the money order was fake and no item or monies were sent to this scam artist


I have a fake money order for $49,000 When a person from the internet was trying to buy my automobile last year.  (Don't even remember which country this one was from)  It seems the creepy crawlers are out in force on the internet.

You can say how did that happen, but it seems  that there is  a relentless pursuit of these types trying to scam someone out of something.

Just my view
Logged
BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7761



WWW
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2007, 11:26:50 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I purchased an item and sent money to person via Western Union   Never heard from him again nor received the item.  Ebay just said too bad and sent me a list of buyer beware items.

I sold an item and received a bank money order (they overpaid and wanted the difference back in a money order)  you can guess that the money order was fake and no item or monies were sent to this scam artist
I have a fake money order for $49,000 When a person from the internet was trying to buy my automobile last year.  (Don't even remember which country this one was from)  It seems the creepy crawlers are out in force on the internet.

You can say how did that happen, but it seems  that there is  a relentless pursuit of these types trying to scam someone out of something.

Just my view
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Larry,

Thanks for the reply. Please forgive my ignorance, but how can a money order be fake?

You receive the money on your account or you don't, right?

Regards,
Bernard
Logged

A few images online here!
Kumar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 652


WWW
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2007, 12:19:39 AM »
ReplyReply

Bernard,

In some countries, the post office gives you the option of sending the money order directly to the recipient, who then goes to the post office or bank to encash it. Most times, the post office or bank does not check back with the issuing post office, but either credits the recipient's account, or gives the cash across the counter. When receiving a money order, it is safest to specify that the money order comes directly from the post office in your country, rather than receive a letter containing a money order. That is to say, the postman should give you the money order, ask you to sign a receipt and pay you the money. For large sums of money, you are required to come to the post office in person with proof of identity and collect it yourself. The money order document is usually not watermarked like a currency note or check, and is easy to counterfeit.

Cheers,
Kumar
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 12:21:04 AM by Kumar » Logged

larryg
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 468



WWW
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2007, 08:34:06 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Larry,

Thanks for the reply. Please forgive my ignorance, but how can a money order be fake?

You receive the money on your account or you don't, right?

Regards,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129811\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually I was already wise to this trick but the money order came in the mail directly to me.   It looks as real as can be  but when taken to the bank the numbers on the bottom do not match up.
This is the old trick of someone sending too much money in haste and would like the refund back (of course the refund would be the real deal).

Paypal (when money confirmed deposited) is by far the best way to deal with this type of situation as you say the money is there or it isn't.
Logged
BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7761



WWW
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2007, 10:07:44 AM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for the explanation, I understand better now.

Regards,
Bernard
Logged

A few images online here!
Don Libby
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 724


Iron Creek Photography


WWW
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2007, 12:10:13 PM »
ReplyReply

Basically in dealing with any legal tender document be it cash, check, money order they all have at one time or another been forged.  This also includes bank drafts and cashier's checks.  That's why I prefer to deal with electronic payments such as Paypal.  They receive the payment and with the proper settings guarantee me the sell the payment.  There's no absolute full proof method in dealing with a person other than face to face but this appears at least to me the best one so far.


don
Logged

finn mccoull
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2007, 04:46:56 AM »
ReplyReply

Well, my "tongue in cheek" grumble about ebay and "USA only"  certainly got some interesting information flowing!

I have made my deal and purchased my Arcbody from someone I met through these pages.
Not only have we made the deal but I think we have become friends - I would like to think so anyway!

Only one thing - he is from Germany.............

Regards to all
Finn.
Logged
Conner999
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 451


« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2007, 07:58:34 AM »
ReplyReply

It's a common complaint, and for 99% of sellers the paranoia, which it is, is unjustified.

Being Canadian I have little choice but to buy/sell gear outside the country. Too little product in-country and most of it was bought at inflated CDN dealer prices that many folks (justifiably) want to try and recoup. Have made deals all over US, UK, EU, Asia, Australia. Never been ripped-off.

While everyone has horror stories, they are few and they don't reflect on every Canadian, Kiwi, Aussie of Brit, etec., ever to walk the earth.

My only complaint/issue was with a US buyer (an idiot regardless of nationallity) who thought Canada = Idaho or Kansas and that duties and import taxes were somehow my fault.

As with all things in life - common sense (as a seller) and a little boldness (as a buyer) are your greatest assets:

1. Avoid ebay if you can. Forums such as this one FM and POTN are better because folks have reps they want to protect. Ebay sales from established forum members are fine.  

2. Re: #1, try and stick to folks with lots of posts, reps and watch the board for awhile - you can tell who has a decent rep vs, just a verbose poster.

3. If a seller says US only - ask, politely anyway (unless they are VERY explicit in their listing). This works better from Canada -- for some silly reason geographic proximity seems to diminish the perceived risk of theft. Good luck getting $$ from a fellow countryman who rips you - let alone from across ANY border.

That being said, you'd be surprised how many folks will ship outside the US if asked nicely -and faced with a likely sale.

4. Use Paypal. Yeah it costs 3% or so (if CC-based) or $$ bank transfers. They're easy, fast & secure. If you can somehow set up a US bank account or work via a US friend, all the better. There is also always the risk with the mish-mash of US banks and regs that some securities won't be recognized - or honored in a timely manner (e.g. Canadian cheques).

6. Give/demand shipping using tracking data and frequent update emails during the deal. It does still surprise me how trusting folks are sending $000's ahead of seeing any product.

7. A 100% Fleabay rep does help.

8. Make it clear when buying from a nervous or newbie seller that you KNOW any import taxes, etc are YOUR responsibility. You'd be surprised how many folks never attended a Geography 101 class.

9. Don't ask folks to fudge import values - it just makes nervous buyers that much more so -- even though all your doing is trying to avoid getting soaked. Most Customs folks ignore 'gift' etc labels anyway. A business doing so could get stomped on if caught doing it. If the seller does it voluntarily (some veteran ones will), have a drink in celebration -- if it works.

10. Try Canadian or non-US sellers on a board first to build a rep if you can, they (I've found) typically are less nervous about selling intn'l - probably because they have no choice 90% of the time.

Be patient, don't get angry (it's tough when a great deal from paranoid seller walks by an honest offshore buyer with $$$ in hand) and slowly build a rep.

That being said, I've cursed like a Royal Marine at my iMac screen on many an occasion re: the frustration your seeing.
Logged
Hank
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2007, 09:37:25 AM »
ReplyReply

Speaking more as a business than an individual, I have to admit something like "scam fatigue" or perhaps more accurately "precaution fatigue."  We receive so many overseas scam attempts- dozens per day- that we ultimately don't even open emails from overseas accounts, as well as suspicious looking ones from North America.  The attempts are so prolific I'm convinced some scammers have graduated to selling scam kits to scammer wannabes.  The attempts are too similar and from too many sources to be individual inspiration.  We even get scam solicitations posing as Paypal.  

Mix in the spam, and it's barely worth opening our email account.  I had a lot of fun at a recent photo trade show, telling each vendor requesting our email address that we keep a list of companies that have spammed us with unsolicited offers, assigning them to a file labeled "Do Not Buy List."  Their protestations and explanations were an enjoyable diversion, I must admit.

It's a different situation when we have offered equipment for sale, but we apply those same filters to respondents.  It's very easy for honest overseas buyers to be swept up in our self-imposed and self-defined "filters."  It's unfortunate that they are caught up in the fray, but I'm afraid the circumstance will persist until better controls are available.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2007, 09:40:16 AM by Hank » Logged
Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12215


« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2007, 10:06:53 AM »
ReplyReply

Hank - I think you have a sane attitude to the problem; the only safe solution for me is my current one, which precludes me from attempting to purchase something that I can´t see from someone I do not know.

I exclude long-running businesses from this concept, but in today´s world, even that can go ass upward. In fact, never mind today, it happened to me quite some time ago: I bought a Nikkor 500 mirror lens from a pro dealer in Glasgow from whom I had already bought a lot of equipment over the years and with it, I´d ordered one of Nikon´s hard leather cases. Well, when I picked up the case, I was surprised to find that it didn´t fit the lens properly. I took it back and they said they´d replace it, but that never happened: the company went bust and everything in their possession was held, including the faulty case. Boom. Gone.

I thought that the US had the best market in the world, with everything new being premiered there because of the huge population of potential buyers; also and not least, companies like Hasselblad tend (ed?) to price in the US in dollars and use exactly the same figure when selling in the UK, but in pounds. Smart move, unless you have to buy in the UK.

Ciao - Rob C
Logged

Don Libby
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 724


Iron Creek Photography


WWW
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2007, 05:21:39 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Well, my "tongue in cheek" grumble about ebay and "USA only"  certainly got some interesting information flowing!

I have made my deal and purchased my Arcbody from someone I met through these pages.
Not only have we made the deal but I think we have become friends - I would like to think so anyway!

Only one thing - he is from Germany.............

Regards to all
Finn.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129961\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Too funny!  Reason I say this is that I too made a deal from this site and have since became very good friends with the seller.  Congratulations on the sale and new friend.
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad