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Author Topic: Advantages of Leaf, Phase One vs Mamiya ZD  (Read 14071 times)
thsinar
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« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2007, 11:53:54 PM »
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Dear Anthony,

I'm here to answer any of your questions, so please be more specific and PM me.

Best regards,
Thierry

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Alright.

Again, thanks for the replies. Thierry, you want to talk about the sinar backs? I'm quite curious about what kinds of quality I can expect for the expenditure of say 15k (new or used) with any of these backs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131117\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2007, 02:29:41 PM »
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While there is chat of buffer it should be mentioned that Sinar , shooting to internal memory the is NO buffer till it is full at 60 odd frames

buffer is of course different from fram rate

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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thsinar
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« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2007, 12:48:17 AM »
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the eMotion 54 (22 MPx) allows continuous shooting of 60 frames in full resolution, and 120 compressed, without any slowdown (no buffer, as mentioned by Sam) at a shooting rate of less than 1 sec/frame

the eMotion 75 (33 MPx) allows continuous shooting of 83 frmaes in full resolution, and 166 compressed, without any slowdown at a shooting rate of less than 1.4 sec/frame.

Thierry

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While there is chat of buffer it should be mentioned that Sinar , shooting to internal memory the is NO buffer till it is full at 60 odd frames

buffer is of course different from fram rate

S
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Henry Goh
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« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2007, 02:22:20 AM »
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the eMotion 54 (22 MPx) allows continuous shooting of 60 frames in full resolution, and 120 compressed, without any slowdown (no buffer, as mentioned by Sam) at a shooting rate of less than 1 sec/frame

the eMotion 75 (33 MPx) allows continuous shooting of 83 frmaes in full resolution, and 166 compressed, without any slowdown at a shooting rate of less than 1.4 sec/frame.

Thierry
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Thierry,

Any chance of those sample RAW files from Sinar yet?

Best regards,

Henry
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etrump
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« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2007, 11:57:07 AM »
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Thanks a lot Frank for your Comments..
And Sorry for any hard feelings.. Had a bad day..
Hope you can get over it.
Thanks again for all your information.
Snook
PS. Anybody notice that Adorama List them as in stock.. ?
Wierd?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131086\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You can't trust Adorama's web page.  

They will accept the order and then send you an email saying it is not available.
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Ed Cooley

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Snook
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« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2007, 07:58:55 PM »
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B&H had some in lately but they were sold out right away.
Hope that means we can get some more reviews on this back.
I am still looking at the P30+ or P25+ but would be interested to here from the people getting their ZD backs recently..?
I guess time will tell.
Snook
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Tomcat
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« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2007, 05:46:24 PM »
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Speaking of speed, I saw the new Leaf Aptus 54S at Fotocare last week.  It shot really fast.  They claim 1.2 frames per sec or a frame every .8 sec, depending on how you count time I guess.  Anyway, it didn't have a buffer fill at all, totally opposite of the ZD.  It shot at this speed until I filled the 4GB CF card.  The Fotocare guys said they are starting to deliver this model now too...finally!
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johnE
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« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2007, 06:10:51 PM »
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I just shot a ZD back / Mamiya 645 about an hour ago. I am new to digital backs so I do not have a point of reference but it was definitely not like shooting a DSLR.

I got the thumbnail in about 2 seconds, then it would not render it again until it finished writing to the card (about 10 seconds) although it would continue to shoot . Not enough time to see what it was really like and for all I know it may of had a slow memory card...

I have not had time to look at the images yet. I will look at them tonight for sure.

Photomart in Phoenix has at least one for sale for anyone dying to get their hands on one - ask for Judith.
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clawery
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« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2007, 07:25:29 PM »
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The capture rate for the P45+ (39MP) is one frame every 1.5 sec.

The capture rate for the P25+ (22MP) is one frame every 1.5 sec.

The capture rate for the P30+ (31MP) is one frame every 1.25 sec.

The capture rate for the P21+ (18MP) is one frame every .08 sec

Chris Lawery
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Capture Integration
www.captureintegration.com
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2007, 07:32:04 PM »
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I took a quick look at the sensor specifications they are all in the 70 to 73 db signal to noise ratio (12 bits of information or 12 stops) So my guess is other than resolution 22 to 39 mega pixels whether they have 16 or 14 bit analog to digital converters or write 12 bits or 16 bits of data to a file there should not be much of a difference in image quality (until new sensors have increased dynamic range  (s/n ratio)). I hope the zd back compares favorably with the others so that I can afford to get into MF digital. I also hope comparisons are forthcoming.
Marc
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 07:32:40 PM by marcmccalmont » Logged

Marc McCalmont
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« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2007, 10:21:28 PM »
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....
I am in the same boat as you but have the problem that where I live I can test nor even see anything. Just have to trust in these types of forums which stinks.
I am thinking about going with the Mamiya 645AFDII with a P30+ or P25+ back.
The AFDII with a P30+ back is around 15,990 w/ 1 year warranty and 17,990 w/ 3 year warranty.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=130869\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have not seen that pricing. Are you saying you can buy an AFDII and the p30+ for 17,990? If so, where?
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mcfoto
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« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2007, 12:05:28 AM »
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B&H had some in lately but they were sold out right away.
Hope that means we can get some more reviews on this back.
I am still looking at the P30+ or P25+ but would be interested to here from the people getting their ZD backs recently..?
I guess time will tell.
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131526\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi
For the price of $7000.00 USD I am not surprised ( sold out ). It is still a fast back 1.2 f/s for a 1.15x conversion lens factor.

Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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eronald
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« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2007, 01:07:43 AM »
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Chris, let's assume you mean 0.8s here.

Edmund

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The capture rate for the P21+ (18MP) is one frame every .08 sec

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
www.captureintegration.com
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clawery
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« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2007, 06:07:15 AM »
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Chris, let's assume you mean 0.8s here.

Edmund
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Edmund,

You are correct.  It is 0.8 sec for the P21+.  
I guess that it was wishful thinking.

Thank you,

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
www.captureintegration.com
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Anders_HK
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« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2007, 08:09:00 AM »
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It seems pretty much all above posts relate to the speed of Leaf, Phase One vs. Mamiya ZD and technical aspects of the DBs/cameras, yet is not IMAGE QUALITY what matters most to us in photography???

I just recent got the ZD camera and it would be interesting to hear comments on how the ZD compare to Leaf and Phase One DBs based on image quality. Is it far behind them? I stepped up from D200 and see a vast improvement from DSLRs. It feels like being back to joys of photography again .

As was implied by a post above the ZD camera does handle like a DSLR, but... it is a medium format camera and thus much slower (yes takes time for image to appear, my F100 took longer...    ). Personally so far I much enjoy the ZD and am still learning its image capabilities. I am an advanced amateur into landscape and shooting people living traditional lives on many travels. The ZD camera works well hand held also, using a steady hand. So far I find it rather lovely...  

Regards
Anders
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frankric
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« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2007, 09:13:53 AM »
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While I have not been able to directly compare the image quality of my ZD to Phase, Leaf etc, I tend to think that Michael's conclusion in his ZD review sounds reasonable. That is, the ZD may not be quite up to P25 IQ, but it's very close. I'm certainly well satisfied with it.

For mine, the biggest drawbacks of the ZD are the shooting speed after the buffer is full and the review screen. The shooting speed until 11 frame buffer is filled is excellent, so if you usually don't take more than 11 shots in a burst, shooting speed is not an issue. If you do shoot longer bursts - and at times I do - then you discover just how long 10 seconds can be!! I sometimes do large stitched panos with bracketed frames - the sun would have set before I had finished. So I still use the Canon 5D for them.

The slowness of the review image appearing on the rear LCD I find to be an annoyance. I wish it were faster, but it's not a show stopper. The size of the review image when you have a histogram and flashing highlights displayed is a sick joke, but I find it just useable (sort of).

I doubt I'm giving away too much in other areas and I'm willing to put up with the speed and rear LCD compromises to get the bargain pricing of the ZD.  But these things  may be show stoppers for someone else.

Regards

Frank
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eronald
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« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2007, 09:59:43 AM »
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I think members of this forum should post a few Raw files, which would enable us to discuss image quality by direct reference.

Edmund
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Anthony R
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« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2007, 10:11:01 AM »
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I think that is a great idea. I'm familiar with most of Leaf and Phase files. I'd love to see a ZD raw, in fact, I'd like to see several shot under different lighting conditions/ratios.
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clawery
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« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2007, 07:53:45 PM »
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Here are a couple of RAW files from a P30+ and P45+:

http://www.captureintegration.com/ci/P30_plus.zip
http://www.captureintegration.com/ci/P45_plus.zip


Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
www.captureintegration.com
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Henry Goh
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« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2007, 11:19:02 PM »
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Here are a couple of RAW files from a P30+ and P45+:

http://www.captureintegration.com/ci/P30_plus.zip
http://www.captureintegration.com/ci/P45_plus.zip
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
www.captureintegration.com
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Thank you very much Chris.

The P45+ file is sharper than the P30+ file.  Both are nice to work with though.

Henry
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