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Author Topic: Rag paper, why use it?  (Read 7152 times)
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2007, 12:46:12 PM »
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Thanks Eric, that is interesting feedback. I've seen the pizza-wheel business on several 3800s, so your experience with it is not unusual. The rough transitions bit is also disappointing. I hope you have raised this with Epson. They need as much feedback as possible to help them avoid design errors in next generation machines.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
bradleygibson
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« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2007, 07:41:41 PM »
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*An increasing number of prints are not displayed behind glass or plastic. This is especially appicable for prints above 1mx1m. I have printed up to 7.5 squ. meters  and the demand for big prints - selling so far up to $15,000- is increasing. These are not framed in the old 19th or 20th century manner, but pinned, held with magnets or adhered to surfaced metals or  other materials.
In these cases the surface characteristics of the paper is very important.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133060\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi, Brian,

I'm also interested in displaying prints without glazing (not behind glass or plastic), but I haven't found many resources on this (beside spraying the print and/or using a press).  Where can one learn more about the pinning, magnet or other techniques for glass-free presentation?

Thanks in advance,
Brad
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madmanchan
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« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2007, 08:29:57 AM »
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Thanks Eric, that is interesting feedback. I've seen the pizza-wheel business on several 3800s, so your experience with it is not unusual. The rough transitions bit is also disappointing. I hope you have raised this with Epson. They need as much feedback as possible to help them avoid design errors in next generation machines.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133662\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Mark,

To be honest I haven't contacted Epson about the rough transitions yet, but I just might do that within the next few days. I don't know whether this can or will be resolved for the 3800 itself, but as you say it will hopefully lead Epson to resolving it for the next-gen.
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madmanchan
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« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2007, 08:36:22 AM »
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I'm also interested in displaying prints without glazing (not behind glass or plastic), but I haven't found many resources on this (beside spraying the print and/or using a press).  Where can one learn more about the pinning, magnet or other techniques for glass-free presentation?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133721\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Brad, that's what I've been doing for all of my recent prints -- matting and framing but without glass. (One might ask what's the point of a mat when no glass is being used; well, I think it gives the print some space and makes the presentation nice.)

For the most part, I've been matting and mounting exactly as I would for doing a print behind glass -- except that I leave out the glass/acrylic. Specifically, I mount a print using t-hinges to 3/8" foam core, then place a double-mat on top of the print and attach it to the foam core. This works well for thick rag papers which tend to stay flat. Even when they ripple a bit, it's very hard to see in practice because the surface is so diffuse. (Unfortunately my eyes/brain are quite sensitive to not-quite-flat surfaces.)

For thinner papers or for papers which are more prone to curling/rippling, I cold-mount using the CodaMount double-adhesive sheets. Instead of using a press, I just use a long, heavy mailing tube or pipe to apply the pressure over the print from one end to the other. I usually place a big sheet of acid-free tissue paper over the print before using the rolling tube. Here in Boston, the humidity fluctuates like crazy over the summer and even mat board can be prone to warping. Cold-mounting the print keeps it flat and ripple-free.
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bradleygibson
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« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2007, 10:13:18 AM »
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Brad, that's what I've been doing for all of my recent prints -- matting and framing but without glass. (One might ask what's the point of a mat when no glass is being used; well, I think it gives the print some space and makes the presentation nice.)

For the most part, I've been matting and mounting exactly as I would for doing a print behind glass -- except that I leave out the glass/acrylic. Specifically, I mount a print using t-hinges to 3/8" foam core, then place a double-mat on top of the print and attach it to the foam core. This works well for thick rag papers which tend to stay flat. Even when they ripple a bit, it's very hard to see in practice because the surface is so diffuse. (Unfortunately my eyes/brain are quite sensitive to not-quite-flat surfaces.)

For thinner papers or for papers which are more prone to curling/rippling, I cold-mount using the CodaMount double-adhesive sheets. Instead of using a press, I just use a long, heavy mailing tube or pipe to apply the pressure over the print from one end to the other. I usually place a big sheet of acid-free tissue paper over the print before using the rolling tube. Here in Boston, the humidity fluctuates like crazy over the summer and even mat board can be prone to warping. Cold-mounting the print keeps it flat and ripple-free.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133813\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you, Eric for the tips!  I'll definitely be giving this a try.  

Best regards,
Brad
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Mark Graf
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« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2007, 10:58:38 AM »
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My reasons for using rag matte papers have been for;
1) concerns over off-gassing once a customer has it framed
2) consistency of appearance in varied room lighting / no glare behind glass

I enjoyed the discussion in the camera 2 print video, but think it left out these two important considerations.  And once behind glass and on someone's wall - are the differences in dmax as dramatic as they are when comparing the two side by side in hand?

Mark
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madmanchan
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« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2007, 02:08:25 PM »
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I feel the differences in d-max between glossy and matte papers are more dependent on the lighting and viewing conditions, rather than whether or not the print is behind glass.

The d-max differences are substantial under some lighting conditions (e.g., a gallery spot placed on the ceiling and angled at roughly 30 degrees from the wall, with little other ambient illumination), whereas they are much less significant in diffuse lighting conditions (e.g., lots of diffused light coming from windows, bouncing off walls, etc.).

This is to be expected, given the very nature of these surfaces: a glossy surface is, well, mirror-like and reflective by definition and hence most of the incident light will be reflected in a particular direction (basic geometric physics). In contrast, a matte surface is diffuse and will scatter light roughly equally (on average) in all directions.

There are even some cases where the lighting and viewing angles are such that the glossy print has a much weaker black than the matte print. This happens when the glare or sheen of the surface gets in the way ... so you end up not really seeing the image at all!
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